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Post by Alice Syndrome on Dec 4, 2019 16:58:39 GMT -5
Legit question - If I speak in a faux English accent, not being English - or a faux American accent, not being american, am I racist? You're not being racist, but on the grounds of "I've literally never heard an American get a British accent right" then you'd be incredibly annoying nontheless. Seriously, America. There's a distinct accent change like every 10 miles here, please stop trying.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 17:05:43 GMT -5
Legit question - If I speak in a faux English accent, not being English - or a faux American accent, not being american, am I racist? You're not being racist, but on the grounds of "I've literally never heard an American get a British accent right" then you'd be incredibly annoying nontheless. Seriously, America. There's a distinct accent change like every 10 miles here, please stop trying. Eh, I saw a few plays in London depicting Americans and they all sounded like cowboys. Happens sometimes.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 4, 2019 17:07:28 GMT -5
You're not being racist, but on the grounds of "I've literally never heard an American get a British accent right" then you'd be incredibly annoying nontheless. Seriously, America. There's a distinct accent change like every 10 miles here, please stop trying. Eh, I saw a few plays in London depicting Americans and they all sounded like cowboys. Happens sometimes. Some British actors definitely have some extremely terrible American accents sometimes but my anecdotal experience is that Brits are much more likely to manage an American accent than vice versa. But then that is also impossible to measure so who knows.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 17:15:37 GMT -5
Honestly, and I'm not trying to rile anyone up here, as seems to be the case with other posters who have gotten shat on already in this thread, but...
What exactly was racist in him saying he didn't understand what she was saying, other than the one line she spoke in english?
I've only watched the 10 second clip that another user posted earlier in the thread, and for the life of me, I don't get what the uproar is all about. He didn't say anything to mock or deride the Japanese people, or their culture, their homeland or their ways. He literally said the same words she said.
So again, without trying to rile anyone up - what am I missing? How is THIS racist?
I'm arabic, and when I speak arabic around my non-arabic friends, they don't understand me. If I say something in English after, and they quote me (using an accent they believe sounds like me) on that saying they didn't understand anything else I had said previously, does that make them racists?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 17:47:21 GMT -5
Honestly, and I'm not trying to rile anyone up here, as seems to be the case with other posters who have gotten shat on already in this thread, but... What exactly was racist in him saying he didn't understand what she was saying, other than the one line she spoke in english? I've only watched the 10 second clip that another user posted earlier in the thread, and for the life of me, I don't get what the uproar is all about. He didn't say anything to mock or deride the Japanese people, or their culture, their homeland or their ways. He literally said the same words she said. So again, without trying to rile anyone up - what am I missing? How is THIS racist? I'm arabic, and when I speak arabic around my non-arabic friends, they don't understand me. If I say something in English after, and they quote me (using an accent they believe sounds like me) on that saying they didn't understand anything else I had said previously, does that make them racists? Agreed. To me, there's nothing here, but I think it's a combination of 1) Lawler having a dodgy (to be generous) history, and 2) people being more than sick of him on commentary. Cause I mean.. Was it racist when Jericho said 'Viva La Raza' not too long ago? Am I racist if I do an impression of The Rock or the dude from 'Captain Phillips'? What are the rules here?
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Dec 4, 2019 18:22:24 GMT -5
This line of discussion is almost certainly not productive, but if it is a gateway to understanding then sure let's give it a shot.
I am in no position to suggest what things are or are not racist.
But calling a person A Racist is not the same as 'that person said something racist.'
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 4, 2019 18:26:39 GMT -5
Honestly, and I'm not trying to rile anyone up here, as seems to be the case with other posters who have gotten shat on already in this thread, but... What exactly was racist in him saying he didn't understand what she was saying, other than the one line she spoke in english? I've only watched the 10 second clip that another user posted earlier in the thread, and for the life of me, I don't get what the uproar is all about. He didn't say anything to mock or deride the Japanese people, or their culture, their homeland or their ways. He literally said the same words she said. So again, without trying to rile anyone up - what am I missing? How is THIS racist? I'm arabic, and when I speak arabic around my non-arabic friends, they don't understand me. If I say something in English after, and they quote me (using an accent they believe sounds like me) on that saying they didn't understand anything else I had said previously, does that make them racists? It is a line too close that Lawler shouldn't be getting close to
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 4, 2019 18:40:51 GMT -5
Honestly, and I'm not trying to rile anyone up here, as seems to be the case with other posters who have gotten shat on already in this thread, but... What exactly was racist in him saying he didn't understand what she was saying, other than the one line she spoke in english? I've only watched the 10 second clip that another user posted earlier in the thread, and for the life of me, I don't get what the uproar is all about. He didn't say anything to mock or deride the Japanese people, or their culture, their homeland or their ways. He literally said the same words she said. So again, without trying to rile anyone up - what am I missing? How is THIS racist? I'm arabic, and when I speak arabic around my non-arabic friends, they don't understand me. If I say something in English after, and they quote me (using an accent they believe sounds like me) on that saying they didn't understand anything else I had said previously, does that make them racists? It is a line too close that Lawler shouldn't be getting close to Basically it is racist to to a stereotyped accent. Usually because the objective is to make then sound stupid.BUT I don't think that is the case here. Just he just straded the line IMO. But for example,people that make "Oh ching chong TABURU,TITURU" jokes can f*** right off
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 18:46:10 GMT -5
Honestly, and I'm not trying to rile anyone up here, as seems to be the case with other posters who have gotten shat on already in this thread, but... What exactly was racist in him saying he didn't understand what she was saying, other than the one line she spoke in english? I've only watched the 10 second clip that another user posted earlier in the thread, and for the life of me, I don't get what the uproar is all about. He didn't say anything to mock or deride the Japanese people, or their culture, their homeland or their ways. He literally said the same words she said. So again, without trying to rile anyone up - what am I missing? How is THIS racist? I'm arabic, and when I speak arabic around my non-arabic friends, they don't understand me. If I say something in English after, and they quote me (using an accent they believe sounds like me) on that saying they didn't understand anything else I had said previously, does that make them racists? It is a line too close that Lawler shouldn't be getting close to So it's because of the person who said it, and not what was said then?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2019 18:47:20 GMT -5
It is a line too close that Lawler shouldn't be getting close to Basically it is racist to to a stereotyped accent. Usually because the objective is to make then sound stupid.BUT I don't think that is the case here. Just he just straded the line IMO. But for example,people that make "Oh ching chong TABURU,TITURU" jokes can f*** right off Okay, but that's not at all what happened here. He did not employ an exaggerated accent while trying to deride the speaker for being different than he. He just said, after a promo that was 95% in Japanese, that he had no idea what she had said save for that remaining 5% that was in english.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 4, 2019 19:19:40 GMT -5
It is a line too close that Lawler shouldn't be getting close to So it's because of the person who said it, and not what was said then? It is both It does not have to be either or. If a person said that and doesn't have a history of saying off the wall statements they will get a pass because that's outside their character. However, if a person has a major history of going over the line of saying shit they shouldn't say then they are not and does not deserve the benefit of doubt There is really no need to complicate this. Is this a major offense? No. This is low and one that could be chopped up to a miscommunication but it is another notch on his belt because it is not below Lawler to do something like that
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 4, 2019 19:30:09 GMT -5
Basically it is racist to to a stereotyped accent. Usually because the objective is to make then sound stupid.BUT I don't think that is the case here. Just he just straded the line IMO. But for example,people that make "Oh ching chong TABURU,TITURU" jokes can f*** right off Okay, but that's not at all what happened here. He did not employ an exaggerated accent while trying to deride the speaker for being different than he. He just said, after a promo that was 95% in Japanese, that he had no idea what she had said save for that remaining 5% that was in english. And the way he expressed that involved a shitty accent for the impression and it didn't have to. The words weren't the issue as much as the delivery was the issue.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Dec 4, 2019 19:58:31 GMT -5
See to me I dunno that it's racist to use an accent but I don't know if it's not racist, if that makes sense.
The rule I follow is "if you have to question if it's ok, it probably isn't".
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hassanchop
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Post by hassanchop on Dec 5, 2019 1:36:21 GMT -5
But the bigger question...will it ruin the Tensai gimmick?
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Dec 5, 2019 5:30:48 GMT -5
He should have used a British or Bostonian accent while imitating her/repeating what she said.
But seriously if you ALREADY dislike someone (and there's plenty of legit things you can dislike Lawler for) they don't have to do much to get you angry
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 5, 2019 9:38:51 GMT -5
Depends if you are playing on a stereotypical way of speaking like "Oh i'm a american,so i'm gonna speak like a texan/redneck" But that is a legit type of American accent - why is it racist and a Boston or New York or Florida one not? My point is basically - who decides what is offensively stereotypical? and just because something is a stereotype doesn't make it bad or "problematic" - Take the Irish - We get our accents made fun of all the time - we get labelled alcoholics - but that is because we talk funny and drink a lot. New York and Boston aren't races. And as of now, in America, the Irish are considered white; in the 1800s, different story. It's not racist to use a British accent, for example, because "British" isn't a race. It can still be insulting if done in a hamfisted way, it can be annoying, but it isn't racist. However, in Western society groups like east Asians, black folks, Middle Eastern people, etc., are often "othered" into racial/ethnic groups; it changes the equation.
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Post by ogreknee on Dec 5, 2019 23:59:12 GMT -5
So for full context; The Kabuki Warriors cut a promo mostly in Japanese only saying the phrases 'We beat you' and 'Easy Peasy' before facing off against Charolette on Raw. Jerry Lawler said "I think I understood that last part, "We beat choo" in a sort of semi Asianish accent. Was it stupid, yes. However, it wasn't a full-blown Mr. Yunioshi act. Both Lawler and Cornette are simply products of a looser time in commentating when you didn't have to worry if your joke would get a hashtag the next day. There is a big debate that could be had about sensitivity vs woke culture but It isn't happening here. As for my take, I'd be more irked about having the two Asian, bombshell, Women's tag team champions in question struggle for 15 minutes in a two on 1 handicap match against Nepotism Flair. This person gets it. Lawler is from the old days, more than most still left in a high-profile-position in the WWE today since he literally built up the Memphis territory brick-by-brick with his bare hands. He's a wrestling pioneer in many ways, and literally the only person who's had a stroke on live WWE tv while doing commentary so it's a given he's gonna be allowed to say whatever he wants as long as it isn't clearly offensive. Now, we can say the 'WE BEAT CHOO' line was borderline offensive but let's also acknowledge that heels talking in fluent Japanese to confuse live fans in Nashville, TN (I was there live since I live in Nashville btw) is something you boo as a US citizen who speaks English. Yeah, I like Japanese wrestlers, but if they shout at me in obscenities in Japanese, a language I don't speak, they're getting boo'd. Given. Lawler saying what he said was something a kid in the crowd would've said. Because a kid in the crowd doesn't care about his Twitter presence, or their social media reputation, they hear a Japanese saying something in "Engrish" and that they are a heel, so they'll probably make fun of the thick accent. Jerry Lawler is commentating to the kids in the crowd, and at home watching as an obvious heel that gets them riled up. If I had heard his commentary live (again, I was at the show in the crowd so I had to hear about this whole debacle the day after) I wouldn't have batted an eye. It's a far cry from making a long "joke" about Ethopians starving to death ala Cornette, and I'm a HUGE Cornette fan for similar reasons to Lawler's Memphis history (yeah I'm biased since I'm from Tennessee, fight me). So you want to do turkish oil wrestling or what As an asian i had to hear these lame jokes and microaggressions all the time. So shit like this pisses me off and it is unacceptable the amount of casual racism and xenophobia that still exists in wwe I heard all these lame attempts mocking me with "speaka no engrish? Eat flied lice. Ching chong" I read all this shit here from white posters asserting it not being racist or offensive But you know as an asian this bullshit shall not stand. If you are fine with this and are white it paints you in a certain way. But me hearing stupid racist comments asides and casual racism just brushed off all thr time. It is irritating as f*** hearing this
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Post by ogreknee on Dec 6, 2019 0:12:21 GMT -5
Honestly, and I'm not trying to rile anyone up here, as seems to be the case with other posters who have gotten shat on already in this thread, but... What exactly was racist in him saying he didn't understand what she was saying, other than the one line she spoke in english? I've only watched the 10 second clip that another user posted earlier in the thread, and for the life of me, I don't get what the uproar is all about. He didn't say anything to mock or deride the Japanese people, or their culture, their homeland or their ways. He literally said the same words she said. So again, without trying to rile anyone up - what am I missing? How is THIS racist? I'm arabic, and when I speak arabic around my non-arabic friends, they don't understand me. If I say something in English after, and they quote me (using an accent they believe sounds like me) on that saying they didn't understand anything else I had said previously, does that make them racists? Agreed. To me, there's nothing here, but I think it's a combination of 1) Lawler having a dodgy (to be generous) history, and 2) people being more than sick of him on commentary. Cause I mean.. Was it racist when Jericho said 'Viva La Raza' not too long ago? Am I racist if I do an impression of The Rock or the dude from 'Captain Phillips'? What are the rules here? Okay so asians in america have been othered for centuries with so many campaigns to stop us from breeding and marrying. We been lynched. We were kept in internment camps. We were colonized. We get murdered by white racist who do not face charges. We get pushed into trains by black people who face no charges. We get demonized by main stream america and all this shit Crappy accent mocking jokes is another stupid form of othering and racism. The happy ending comment from jr was more overtly racist. But you know. Whatever. Always sunny did a pretty good episode about this
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 6, 2019 0:30:55 GMT -5
You wanna know " rule" for it?
Does it sound like i'm doing an stereotype?
If yes ,dont.
If no ,do it.
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Post by doinkmark on Dec 6, 2019 2:22:47 GMT -5
What this thread boils down to is: if Lawler had just pronounced "you" correctly, there probably wouldn't be a question of racism.
Had she done the whole promo in English, even broken English, and he said that same line, then it's a "those people talk funny; speak English!" joke.
If you say the English words correctly, it's a "I'm dumb for only knowing English, so I was lost during that mostly Japanese promo" joke.
What Lawler did is somewhere in the middle, and given his history, many are inclined to believe it had racist intent.
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