Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
Celestial Princess in Exile.
Posts: 46,109
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Dec 27, 2019 20:05:07 GMT -5
Paul sold Sleaze in a time when society had an appetite for Sleaze. But that's not the flavor of the times anymore, and Paul still keeps going back to that well. This is a far better way of putting things. Heyman is the same as Russo, Cornette et al who, while being a better promo than the others, is still just the same as he always was for. Honestly, I feel like a LOT of anything catching on in wrestling is "right place, right time".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 20:22:06 GMT -5
This is a far better way of putting things. Heyman is the same as Russo, Cornette et al who, while being a better promo than the others, is still just the same as he always was for. Honestly, I feel like a LOT of anything catching on in wrestling is "right place, right time". That's kind of less wrestling and more just the entirety of pop culture.
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Post by eJm on Dec 27, 2019 20:38:27 GMT -5
Honestly, I feel like a LOT of anything catching on in wrestling is "right place, right time". That's kind of less wrestling and more just the entirety of pop culture. Pretty much. Like, superhero media was always a thing. Iron Man was just right place right time. Sci fi was always a thing, Star Wars was right place, right time etc etc etc
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Post by thechase on Dec 28, 2019 5:44:33 GMT -5
I've enjoyed a lot of RAW under Heyman.
Rusev and Lashely's feud may make for awkward viewing if you're easily offended or don't have an appetite for those angles, but it's a lot of fun and gives both key positions to carry the show when the champion is absent. If it leads to a triple threat at the Rumble, Lesnar vs Rusev vs Lashley, it would be interesting. Doubt Vince will push Rusev hard like that though.
I also thought the booking of Brock vs Rey and Dominic was by far the best angle WWE had done in months.
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Post by 111111 on Dec 28, 2019 6:34:42 GMT -5
I think the myth around Paul Heyman has always been a massive exaggeration fuelled on by the fact that he is a very good talker/salesman.
Was ECW really even that great in hindsight?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
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Post by nisidhe on Dec 28, 2019 8:00:26 GMT -5
I think the myth around Paul Heyman has always been a massive exaggeration fuelled on by the fact that he is a very good talker/salesman. Was ECW really even that great in hindsight? In the sense of the truly talented folk that traipsed through the ECW Arena during its heyday, it could be quite good. However, what was great about ECW quickly became not unique to ECW, and what was unique about ECW wasn't great. Once WWE and WCW got onto the hardcore bandwagon (Bret's announce-table spot at Survivor Series 1995 was arguably Vince's shot across Paul's bow), ECW's days were numbered, I think.
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Wieners=$$$
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Smokin' Bones
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Dec 28, 2019 8:21:18 GMT -5
Paul isn't dead, despite what people think the song "I'm So Tired" says. This myth was debunked decades ago.
*reads thread title a little better*
Oops...
Heyman has a strong mind for the creative aspect of the business, he just doesn't have a strong financial mind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 8:35:45 GMT -5
Paul Heyman's Extreme Cuck Wrestling will be headlined with Seth freakin' Rollins vs. Cedric Alexander vs. Mike The Kanellis in a 3-Way Dance, only @ WWE Network
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Dec 28, 2019 12:19:45 GMT -5
I've said it before, I'll say it again, the people we usually refer to as "genius" in pro wrestling are usually just people using common sense at time when common sense is rare. It doesn't take any special insight to tell two amazing workers in Dean Malenko and Eddie Guerrero to go out there and have a great match. But when the alternatives are Diesel vs. Mabel and Hulk Hogan vs. The Dungeon of Doom, Guerrero-Malenko comes off as mind-blowing.
Heyman's greatest strength has always been to just figure out what guys do best and letting them run with it with minimal interference while covering up their flaws. Writing long-term, serialized television stories with satisfying resolutions? That's never been his thing.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 28, 2019 12:29:37 GMT -5
What worked for ECW were the personalities of the wrestlers, the in-ring work, and the hardcore stuff along with the general "punk rock" feel of the entire promotion not being WWF or WCW. And Paul Heyman was responsible for a lot of that, sure. But then when people wax nostalgic about ECW, you don't really hear a lot of "the angles were really good" talk.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 28, 2019 12:30:16 GMT -5
Raw ratings are still sliding, but the viewership erosion has decreased significantly since he took over so I’d say either him or Vince are doing something right
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Post by DoubleDare on Dec 28, 2019 12:41:10 GMT -5
I've been enjoying Bruce Prichards Smackdown alot more. Yes the campiness has went up almost reminding me of mid 90s wwf, but I enjoy it. The Mandy Otis storyline is entertaining.
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Post by Christian on Dec 28, 2019 12:47:22 GMT -5
So Heyman became what he accused Vince McMahon to years ago ?
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Post by koreycaskets on Dec 28, 2019 15:44:17 GMT -5
I'm a Heyman fan and all but was it he who came up with Undertaker killing Bearer drowning him in cement?
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ssdrivin
ALF
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Post by ssdrivin on Dec 29, 2019 8:27:10 GMT -5
I never got to watch much ECW in his day (and tbh I've not watched a lot since either), but he did have a mystique to me as a result. Then when the Invasion happened and I got to see him heeling it up as a pro-Alliance cheerleader, especially with the likes of JR going back and forth with him, I thought he was pretty cool in a dastardly cunning sort of way. It gave me a chance to see his charisma, before...
...he started managing Brock Lesnar some years later, and he could've basically just recorded one promo and replayed the tape every week for years. So regardless of what he's doing now, that's when Heyman died as a character for me (and a few others in this thread, it seems). Just this tiresome repetitive cheerleading-lawyer shtick, over, and over, and over. It was heelish, sure, but it was just such slow, plodding, predictable, worn out, photocopied, and increasingly low-energy time filler. Didn't feel like the piece of Heyman that I got to see in the early 2000s, it was like he'd just kinda checked out, it lacked any of the passion and dynamism of his Invasion work.
So yeah, kinda dead for me.
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