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Post by PTBartman on Dec 30, 2019 6:36:37 GMT -5
I disagree, Sandow proved he was worthless in his tna run, the wwe did good by not pushing him. Sandow was great in WWE. I couldn't care less how he did in TNA. Maybe the 5 people who watched TNA care, who knows. And he could have done fine with a midcard push. He wasn't championship material by any means, but not everyone is. What frustrates me so much is they screwed him up twice, the Cody feud as a heel and then his Miz face turn feud. He was as over as over can be both times.
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Post by MrElijah on Dec 30, 2019 8:29:19 GMT -5
Kaval. Austin Aries is up there too with his attitude. But Kaval man. This guy was just TOO impatient. He was stuck with Laycool but by Survivor Series he had an IC title match. And I remember hearing he was going to be pushed big in 2011. Then the man quits. It's one thing not to even come to WWE, but all the time and effort he put into this? I remember hearing he had MAJOR attitude problems back then. Which is a shame. Look at AJ Styles, WWE had no problem pushing TNA talent as long as they were component. Which wasn't much, asking from Kaval. To be fair, it's not like the WWE was big on him per se. IIRC, he wasn't expected to win NXT 2 and they kinda pushed him as a loser.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Dec 30, 2019 8:45:11 GMT -5
This will sound ridiculous considering what he's achieved and how he's pushed but for me it's Braun Strowman. He has the look that Vince wants, the eye-catching size, wrestling talent, immense charisma and likeability and a rare connection with fans. He could and should be the biggest face star in wrestling and how they've failed to capitalise on him will always baffle me.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 30, 2019 8:47:11 GMT -5
Yall forgetting the man Jacob Novak for shame.,
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Dec 30, 2019 8:49:34 GMT -5
This will sound ridiculous considering what he's achieved and how he's pushed but for me it's Braun Strowman. He has the look that Vince wants, the eye-catching size, wrestling talent, immense charisma and likeability and a rare connection with fans. He could and should be the biggest face star in wrestling and how they've failed to capitalise on him will always baffle me. For very similar reasoning I will pick Ryback. Dude was the hoss Vince was looking for,he was rrally f***ing ovet,people were ready for him to take the title of Punk. Them he lost And lost And lost. And turned heel.And lost.
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Dec 30, 2019 10:05:03 GMT -5
I actually went with Masters although Emma and Riley are not far behind. Masters I think is the best all around talent of that group imo so I went with him. Guys like Barrett, Ryback, and Harper are getting a lot of votes and even though all those guys definitely could've been something more, they still all had pretty good runs. All three had IC title runs, Ryback and Barrett had stints in the main event picture, and Harper was in a group that was heavily pushed featured for several years. If the question was biggest missed opportunities those three would've been tops. Sans Riley being a clutz in ring him, Masters, and Emma were three talents that pretty much had all the intangibles to be stars (ability, look, charisma) but due to various factors whether it be injuries or behind the scenes mishaps ended up all having very subpar careers and accomplished nothing. IMO those three are the epitome of wasted talent in that pretty much all the tools were there but whether it be management's fault or their own doing did almost literally nothing with those tools and pretty much got chewed up and spit out. Yeah I don't think she'd have been a world changing megastar but they definitely could have done more with Emma. She could have easily been a credible threat which the Raw/SD divisions sorely need right now. I guess they just didn't think she had "it". If she'd come into the company fresh now in NXT she'd probably do way better.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Dec 30, 2019 13:01:36 GMT -5
I actually went with Masters although Emma and Riley are not far behind. Masters I think is the best all around talent of that group imo so I went with him. Guys like Barrett, Ryback, and Harper are getting a lot of votes and even though all those guys definitely could've been something more, they still all had pretty good runs. All three had IC title runs, Ryback and Barrett had stints in the main event picture, and Harper was in a group that was heavily pushed featured for several years. If the question was biggest missed opportunities those three would've been tops. Sans Riley being a clutz in ring him, Masters, and Emma were three talents that pretty much had all the intangibles to be stars (ability, look, charisma) but due to various factors whether it be injuries or behind the scenes mishaps ended up all having very subpar careers and accomplished nothing. IMO those three are the epitome of wasted talent in that pretty much all the tools were there but whether it be management's fault or their own doing did almost literally nothing with those tools and pretty much got chewed up and spit out. Yeah I don't think she'd have been a world changing megastar but they definitely could have done more with Emma. She could have easily been a credible threat which the Raw/SD divisions sorely need right now. I guess they just didn't think she had "it". If she'd come into the company fresh now in NXT she'd probably do way better. Maybe others will disagree but I thought after she turned heel and changed her look she had the "it" factor as far as how she looked and carried herself, in that she came off as someone who could be a main event superstar women's wrestler. Especially look wise as I would put only Becky and Sasha above her in that department when she was there as far being physically attractive and marketable but yet at the time looking cool and unique. I think getting injured at bad times was the biggest problem with her. In their defense I think it seemed like they were willing to give her a chance as Evil Emma as they gave her two non title programs, which they don't do much with the women, first with Becky in 2016 and then with Dana the following year and both times she got injured before either could barely get off the ground forcing them change plans. So I could see them being well we gave her a chance and she couldn't stay healthy so next. Apparently she also had a knack of getting on the bad side of people in management/creative which I'm sure also didn't help her situation. I guess after they used her to put Asuka over they decided they didn't have any use for her any more. I do agree that she's someone who could be useful currently on either Raw/SD just from a midcard depth standpoint, especially on Raw where they literally have no heels other then Asuka and Kairi Sane.
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Rave
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Post by Rave on Dec 30, 2019 13:07:36 GMT -5
Oh jeez, Wade Barrett. The Nexus had been the most interesting thing on WWE TV in years at that point, and they screwed it up massively. Bad News should've taken off as well, but they pulled that because they didn't want him getting over. Dude just got screwed over at every turn.
We would've had him on Lucha Underground for more than a few minutes if shit hadn't hit the fan there, too. Just so much might've been involving him.
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Dec 30, 2019 13:11:36 GMT -5
Yeah I don't think she'd have been a world changing megastar but they definitely could have done more with Emma. She could have easily been a credible threat which the Raw/SD divisions sorely need right now. I guess they just didn't think she had "it". If she'd come into the company fresh now in NXT she'd probably do way better. Maybe others will disagree but I thought after she turned heel and changed her look she had the "it" factor as far as how she looked and carried herself, in that she came off as someone who could be a main event superstar women's wrestler. Especially look wise as I would put only Becky and Sasha above her in that department when she was there as far being physically attractive and marketable but yet at the time looking cool and unique. I think getting injured at bad times was the biggest problem with her. In their defense I think it seemed like they were willing to give her a chance as Evil Emma as they gave her two non title programs, which they don't do much with the women, first with Becky in 2016 and then with Dana the following year and both times she got injured before either could barely get off the ground forcing them change plans. So I could see them being well we gave her a chance and she couldn't stay healthy so next. Apparently she also had a knack of getting on the bad side of people in management/creative which I'm sure also didn't help her situation. I guess after they used her to put Asuka over they decided they didn't have any use for her any more. I do agree that she's someone who could be useful currently on either Raw/SD just from a midcard depth standpoint, especially on Raw where they literally have no heels other then Asuka and Kairi Sane. I'd never heard about the backstage stuff. I think it was just bad timing when she came through really. It was the transition from the diva era to the women era and she didn't have the horsewoman cred and they saddled her with the dancing idiot gimmick. I liked the Dana team too. That would definitely work in NXT now.
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Perfect Timing
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Post by Perfect Timing on Dec 30, 2019 13:24:34 GMT -5
IMO Jon Moxley could have been WWE's new Stone Cold if they had played their cards right. Maybe not that big, but he could have been that cool anti-hero that's a big draw. Even though he got to be WWE Champion, for most of his WWE run it felt like management wasn't really behind him the way they should have been. He got screwed over in that feud with Lesnar.
Maybe if he changed his look up to what it is now. Back then he had the scraggy almost bowl cut and the plain jeans and wife beater.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 30, 2019 13:27:57 GMT -5
Kaval. Austin Aries is up there too with his attitude. But Kaval man. This guy was just TOO impatient. He was stuck with Laycool but by Survivor Series he had an IC title match. And I remember hearing he was going to be pushed big in 2011. Then the man quits. It's one thing not to even come to WWE, but all the time and effort he put into this? I remember hearing he had MAJOR attitude problems back then. Which is a shame. Look at AJ Styles, WWE had no problem pushing TNA talent as long as they were component. Which wasn't much, asking from Kaval. Kaval's whole deal is hard to parse. He absolutely 100% got screwed over... they were mad he won NXT2 when they wanted Riley to win (even though they simultaneously didn't end up caring much about Riley, and that's just what a mess this company is), so they booked him badly on purpose. Even if they hadn't been punishing him, they still had a habit of doing this bizarre "deal with being a jobber for a while before we push you, unless we decide not to push you" thing that they put Bryan and Ziggler and others through at the time. And I remember, it was even unclear at the time if he really quit or they pushed him out. BUT. There are so many alternate universes where things went just slightly different and dude's main-eventing Wrestlelania against Daniel Bryan. He comes along when NXT was its own show... they actually keep him with Laycool and push him. Or he's just not a dick. They say he was on his best behavior during his time in the WWE, but I think "best behavior" is a relative thing when it comes to that guy. It's a shame, because he's so innovative, entertaining, and skilled, the sky was always the limit. And Laycool and his freestyle rap showed he could get over as not just Angry Tough Wrestle Man! Shame. But. Thinking about this reminds me of my answer: Curtis Axel. Seriously. Internet nerd fans often recognize talent, but we don't acknowledge how blinded we can be by someone becoming a meme. He had his terrible promo at the NXT finals (which he clearly didn't know he was going to do until ten seconds before he had to go out to give it) and didn't get over as a Heyman Guy, and he just became a joke. Which sucks, because he's absolutely fantastic in the ring. Even as a Heyman guy, he was having the best matches on the show and people were just yawning because "It's just Axel and we already decided he sucks," and he absolutely killed it with Ryback and in NXT with his arrogant jock meathead character. It's good he's still employed, but you have a guy that talented in-ring and don't have him on TV in real matches, it's a problem.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Dec 30, 2019 13:45:11 GMT -5
Maybe others will disagree but I thought after she turned heel and changed her look she had the "it" factor as far as how she looked and carried herself, in that she came off as someone who could be a main event superstar women's wrestler. Especially look wise as I would put only Becky and Sasha above her in that department when she was there as far being physically attractive and marketable but yet at the time looking cool and unique. I think getting injured at bad times was the biggest problem with her. In their defense I think it seemed like they were willing to give her a chance as Evil Emma as they gave her two non title programs, which they don't do much with the women, first with Becky in 2016 and then with Dana the following year and both times she got injured before either could barely get off the ground forcing them change plans. So I could see them being well we gave her a chance and she couldn't stay healthy so next. Apparently she also had a knack of getting on the bad side of people in management/creative which I'm sure also didn't help her situation. I guess after they used her to put Asuka over they decided they didn't have any use for her any more. I do agree that she's someone who could be useful currently on either Raw/SD just from a midcard depth standpoint, especially on Raw where they literally have no heels other then Asuka and Kairi Sane. I'd never heard about the backstage stuff. I think it was just bad timing when she came through really. It was the transition from the diva era to the women era and she didn't have the horsewoman cred and they saddled her with the dancing idiot gimmick. I liked the Dana team too. That would definitely work in NXT now. Yeah her and Dana gelled really well. It is something that I think would work really well now especially since Dana has become a lot better in ring since then as she was still really green at the time. I think with Dana it's even more unfortunate then Emma in that she too was called up too soon (although with her it was more of a case of not being ready in ring as apposed to Emma who was fine in ring but had a dumb gimmick that needed more NXT time so she could at least get more cred ala Bayley) and bombed horribly with management completely giving up on her as a result. Over time she's actually developed into a pretty good worker imo but unfortunately I think it's a case of too little too late as I think they've already kind of made their mind up on her and she's seemingly perpetually stuck in this position of being just being used to put others over when she probably could be something more.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 30, 2019 14:10:36 GMT -5
Maybe others will disagree but I thought after she turned heel and changed her look she had the "it" factor as far as how she looked and carried herself, in that she came off as someone who could be a main event superstar women's wrestler. Especially look wise as I would put only Becky and Sasha above her in that department when she was there as far being physically attractive and marketable but yet at the time looking cool and unique. I think getting injured at bad times was the biggest problem with her. In their defense I think it seemed like they were willing to give her a chance as Evil Emma as they gave her two non title programs, which they don't do much with the women, first with Becky in 2016 and then with Dana the following year and both times she got injured before either could barely get off the ground forcing them change plans. So I could see them being well we gave her a chance and she couldn't stay healthy so next. Apparently she also had a knack of getting on the bad side of people in management/creative which I'm sure also didn't help her situation. I guess after they used her to put Asuka over they decided they didn't have any use for her any more. I do agree that she's someone who could be useful currently on either Raw/SD just from a midcard depth standpoint, especially on Raw where they literally have no heels other then Asuka and Kairi Sane. I'd never heard about the backstage stuff. I think it was just bad timing when she came through really. It was the transition from the diva era to the women era and she didn't have the horsewoman cred and they saddled her with the dancing idiot gimmick. I liked the Dana team too. That would definitely work in NXT now. She also debuted on TV like right before NXT was accessible to people so they missed the entire evolution of the weird dancing schtick.
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Ben Wyatt
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 30, 2019 15:03:13 GMT -5
Lots of love here for Barrett. Didn't see that coming. Barrett isn't necessarily the best talent that WWE wasted...but he is probably the one who seems like there are the least excuses for why they did. He wasn't that great in the ring? Didn't stop them before, with some guys. His heel catchphrase started getting face pops? No face turn, only a removal of what got him over! He was big, he could talk, he could get booed against John Cena 100% of the time. None of the old excuses held up on him. He got injured a lot, but so did Batista and Edge. Before him (and Ryback, and Zack Ryder, and a few others), there were always these stock excuses - too small, couldn't talk, nobody cares about flippy guys, nobody cares about dry technical wrestling, gimmick is too niche, didn't get over, whatever. Barrett was practically a gift-wrapped WWE style main eventer of the type that WWE always claimed to want, and they wasted him. That is very revealing of how WWE really works and how honest those reasons were to begin with. Bingo. It's crazy how much they left on the table with him. He was never going to be the top guy in the business for years on end, but he could have been a legit fixture in the main event scene and a credible multi time champion
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Dec 30, 2019 17:09:18 GMT -5
RVD.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Dec 30, 2019 17:33:27 GMT -5
I won't say he was wasted but the fact they screwed up the Damien Sandow Miz storyline proved the lower card doesn't matter no matter how much the audience is into a story or charecter I disagree, Sandow proved he was worthless in his tna run, the wwe did good by not pushing him. If this decade taught us one thing, it's *not* to judge a talent by their TNA runs.
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Dec 30, 2019 17:39:17 GMT -5
Dolph Ziggler, dude was like a big star when he won at Survivor Series 2014, that was the point to make cement him as a main eventer, and then RR2015 happened...
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Dec 30, 2019 17:44:12 GMT -5
I disagree, Sandow proved he was worthless in his tna run, the wwe did good by not pushing him. If this decade taught us one thing, it's *not* to judge a talent by their TNA runs. He is the exception, he killed all of our hopes for those of us who watched him in tna. It made me realize that if the wwe doesn’t push who I like, well there’s a reason for it.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Dec 30, 2019 18:11:25 GMT -5
If this decade taught us one thing, it's *not* to judge a talent by their TNA runs. He is the exception, he killed all of our hopes for those of us who watched him in tna. It made me realize that if the wwe doesn’t push who I like, well there’s a reason for it. I wouldn't say that at all. Have you seen his NWA work?
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Dec 30, 2019 18:39:30 GMT -5
If this decade taught us one thing, it's *not* to judge a talent by their TNA runs. He is the exception, he killed all of our hopes for those of us who watched him in tna. It made me realize that if the wwe doesn’t push who I like, well there’s a reason for it. Or rather, it was seized on by WWE apologists who wanted to have a reason to justify why some people seem to arbitrarily not get pushes despite being over.
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