How Seinfeld changed TV.

[castletonsnob]

I've been getting into watching TV shows and analyzing them lately. I've been reading that Seinfeld is the most influential TV show of all time. I was just a kid when Seinfeld ran, so I didn't watch it growing up.



For those who did, how did Seinfeld change TV?

[SmashTV]

I’d not say of all time, but in terms of comedy - at least when it hit its stride - it ushered in a new style of sitcom. It relied more on funny lines than actual jokes, it put certain phrases into society (‘Yadayadayada’ probably being the most prominent) and had characters often fail or not learn any morality from their deeds. The writers had a rule of ‘no hugging’, so there was often no happy ending with the characters learning from the error of their ways. Although it started in 1989, I think, it was in contrast to the ‘happily ever after’ sitcoms of the 80s.

[lildude8218]

I'm pretty sure he used a remote control like the rest of us

[Cranjis McBasketball]

I’ll field this one!

Basically the way Seinfeld started was NBC approached Jerry wanting to work with him. He told them he had no ideas and his only goal was really to have the meeting. Then the idea was hatched that two guys just talking should be the show. It was gonna be about how comedians get their material. They’d have these experiences and then the end would be Jerry and his friend each doing a standup set.

Jerry felt that would be impossible to sustain. It was originally just going to be a special. They’d do one 90 special. He called Larry David because David was the only guy Seinfeld knew who actually wrote something besides a joke, so he asked him to help. David jumped at it to get a sweet $25,000 cheque.

It didn’t go well. Tested poorly, certain people felt it was too “New York” and “too Jewish”. Anyway, they had one super fan at NBC who had a budget of 2 hours of prime time special (rumoured to be a Bob Hope Christmas Special that was planned) he gave up to get 4 episodes of Seinfeld done. So, the first season was basically all just “special” episodes.

David was ready to walk at any moment. All he ever agreed to do was help Jerry write the pilot, get his cheque and be done. Suddenly he was in charge of this show he never wanted to do, didn’t know how to do, and drove him to tears thinking of it all. Seinfeld’s whole goal was to be a stand up. NBC asked for him. He was fine going back to stand up at any time.

Which lead to NBC asking for a pile of changes and them saying “No.” NBC reacted by “Well, it’s not costing us anything. Nobody is watching but of those few people who are, they love the show. And it’s very funny”

All of that long winded explanation is to get to point 1. Hiring people who you like and stepping away. Which was never done. They only network who ever did it again was HBO, who hires people they like and basically says their job is done. Go make your show.

As mentioned above me, the show had a rule “No hugging, no learning”. They didn’t learn a sappy lesson when things went wrong. They just moved on.

It wasn’t the Jerry vanity project. Usually when a stand up got a show, they were just the funniest bastard who ever lived. Just ripping jokes while the rest of the cast just took them. All Seinfeld cared about was making the show funny. So the whole cast was funny.

Introducing phrases into pop culture.

How it was written. Usually the writers would gather in a room and pitch jokes. On Seinfeld, you wrote alone, handed it in to Jerry and Larry and they’d punch it up. Then the writer would be involved in casting, recording, editing. The whole process. The writers gained tons of experience writers don’t get in TV.

The real world entering in to the show, making those things famous. J. Peterman is a real catalog. John O’Hurly owns a piece now. There’s more to that story I could tell you if you wish. The outside of Tom’s Restaurant, Junior Mints, Drakes Coffee Cake and everyone figuring out who the Soup Nazi was based on basically immediately. Fun fact, he was mentioned in Sleepless in Seattle previously.

Basically every story in the show is based on real life. All of it. No matter how wacky or outlandish it was real. Actually, that’s not quite true as one former Simpsons writer Jennifer Crittenden would pitch things John Swartzwelder said or did for Kramer and it would be rejected for being too crazy for anyone to have done.

How it handled certain topics. The got shows about masturbation, homosexuality, female orgasms on the air with almost no complaints from the viewing public.

The show was utterly unlike anything that came before it and really after it.

[horsemen4ever]

Well I do think they are two different Seinfelds, the early realistic gritty Seinfeld, and the later more cartoon version of Seinfeld. Watch a season 1- 3 episode and than a season 7-0 episode. For me I thought the middle of the run was the best, season 4-6, that is the show was hitting its stride.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 2, 2020 19:44:46 GMT -5 horsemen4ever said:

Well I do think they are two different Seinfelds, the early realistic gritty Seinfeld, and the later more cartoon version of Seinfeld. Watch a season 1- 3 episode and than a season 7-0 episode. For me I thought the middle of the run was the best, season 4-6, that is the show was hitting its stride.

It’s true but again, most of those things actually happened. Most, not all, no matter how insane.

[cjh]

Jan 2, 2020 16:11:12 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

I’ll field this one!

Basically the way Seinfeld started was NBC approached Jerry wanting to work with him. He told them he had no ideas and his only goal was really to have the meeting. Then the idea was hatched that two guys just talking should be the show. It was gonna be about how comedians get their material. They’d have these experiences and then the end would be Jerry and his friend each doing a standup set.

Jerry felt that would be impossible to sustain. It was originally just going to be a special. They’d do one 90 special. He called Larry David because David was the only guy Seinfeld knew who actually wrote something besides a joke, so he asked him to help. David jumped at it to get a sweet $25,000 cheque.

It didn’t go well. Tested poorly, certain people felt it was too “New York” and “too Jewish”. Anyway, they had one super fan at NBC who had a budget of 2 hours of prime time special (rumoured to be a Bob Hope Christmas Special that was planned) he gave up to get 4 episodes of Seinfeld done. So, the first season was basically all just “special” episodes.

David was ready to walk at any moment. All he ever agreed to do was help Jerry write the pilot, get his cheque and be done. Suddenly he was in charge of this show he never wanted to do, didn’t know how to do, and drove him to tears thinking of it all. Seinfeld’s whole goal was to be a stand up. NBC asked for him. He was fine going back to stand up at any time.

Which lead to NBC asking for a pile of changes and them saying “No.” NBC reacted by “Well, it’s not costing us anything. Nobody is watching but of those few people who are, they love the show. And it’s very funny”

All of that long winded explanation is to get to point 1. Hiring people who you like and stepping away. Which was never done. They only network who ever did it again was HBO, who hires people they like and basically says their job is done. Go make your show.

As mentioned above me, the show had a rule “No hugging, no learning”. They didn’t learn a sappy lesson when things went wrong. They just moved on.

It wasn’t the Jerry vanity project. Usually when a stand up got a show, they were just the funniest bastard who ever lived. Just ripping jokes while the rest of the cast just took them. All Seinfeld cared about was making the show funny. So the whole cast was funny.

Introducing phrases into pop culture.

How it was written. Usually the writers would gather in a room and pitch jokes. On Seinfeld, you wrote alone, handed it in to Jerry and Larry and they’d punch it up. Then the writer would be involved in casting, recording, editing. The whole process. The writers gained tons of experience writers don’t get in TV.

The real world entering in to the show, making those things famous. J. Peterman is a real catalog. John O’Hurly owns a piece now. There’s more to that story I could tell you if you wish. The outside of Tom’s Restaurant, Junior Mints, Drakes Coffee Cake and everyone figuring out who the Soup Nazi was based on basically immediately. Fun fact, he was mentioned in Sleepless in Seattle previously.

Basically every story in the show is based on real life. All of it. No matter how wacky or outlandish it was real. Actually, that’s not quite true as one former Simpsons writer Jennifer Crittenden would pitch things John Swartzwelder said or did for Kramer and it would be rejected for being too crazy for anyone to have done.

How it handled certain topics. The got shows about masturbation, homosexuality, female orgasms on the air with almost no complaints from the viewing public.

The show was utterly unlike anything that came before it and really after it.

My favorite example of this is the "Summer of George" episode.  Amanda Peet's character was based on the actress who played Nikki (Jerry's blonde girlfriend who always got her way) the previous season.
 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 2, 2020 20:02:19 GMT -5 cjh said:

Jan 2, 2020 16:11:12 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

I’ll field this one!

Basically the way Seinfeld started was NBC approached Jerry wanting to work with him. He told them he had no ideas and his only goal was really to have the meeting. Then the idea was hatched that two guys just talking should be the show. It was gonna be about how comedians get their material. They’d have these experiences and then the end would be Jerry and his friend each doing a standup set.

Jerry felt that would be impossible to sustain. It was originally just going to be a special. They’d do one 90 special. He called Larry David because David was the only guy Seinfeld knew who actually wrote something besides a joke, so he asked him to help. David jumped at it to get a sweet $25,000 cheque.

It didn’t go well. Tested poorly, certain people felt it was too “New York” and “too Jewish”. Anyway, they had one super fan at NBC who had a budget of 2 hours of prime time special (rumoured to be a Bob Hope Christmas Special that was planned) he gave up to get 4 episodes of Seinfeld done. So, the first season was basically all just “special” episodes.

David was ready to walk at any moment. All he ever agreed to do was help Jerry write the pilot, get his cheque and be done. Suddenly he was in charge of this show he never wanted to do, didn’t know how to do, and drove him to tears thinking of it all. Seinfeld’s whole goal was to be a stand up. NBC asked for him. He was fine going back to stand up at any time.

Which lead to NBC asking for a pile of changes and them saying “No.” NBC reacted by “Well, it’s not costing us anything. Nobody is watching but of those few people who are, they love the show. And it’s very funny”

All of that long winded explanation is to get to point 1. Hiring people who you like and stepping away. Which was never done. They only network who ever did it again was HBO, who hires people they like and basically says their job is done. Go make your show.

As mentioned above me, the show had a rule “No hugging, no learning”. They didn’t learn a sappy lesson when things went wrong. They just moved on.

It wasn’t the Jerry vanity project. Usually when a stand up got a show, they were just the funniest bastard who ever lived. Just ripping jokes while the rest of the cast just took them. All Seinfeld cared about was making the show funny. So the whole cast was funny.

Introducing phrases into pop culture.

How it was written. Usually the writers would gather in a room and pitch jokes. On Seinfeld, you wrote alone, handed it in to Jerry and Larry and they’d punch it up. Then the writer would be involved in casting, recording, editing. The whole process. The writers gained tons of experience writers don’t get in TV.

The real world entering in to the show, making those things famous. J. Peterman is a real catalog. John O’Hurly owns a piece now. There’s more to that story I could tell you if you wish. The outside of Tom’s Restaurant, Junior Mints, Drakes Coffee Cake and everyone figuring out who the Soup Nazi was based on basically immediately. Fun fact, he was mentioned in Sleepless in Seattle previously.

Basically every story in the show is based on real life. All of it. No matter how wacky or outlandish it was real. Actually, that’s not quite true as one former Simpsons writer Jennifer Crittenden would pitch things John Swartzwelder said or did for Kramer and it would be rejected for being too crazy for anyone to have done.

How it handled certain topics. The got shows about masturbation, homosexuality, female orgasms on the air with almost no complaints from the viewing public.

The show was utterly unlike anything that came before it and really after it.

My favorite example of this is the "Summer of George" episode.  Amanda Peet's character was based on the actress who played Nikki (Jerry's blonde girlfriend who always got her way) the previous season.
 

My favorite is probably the John Voight car being real. Or Festivus.

[horsemen4ever]

One thing I always wondered was the influence for George's conflict with the actor that played Kramer on the Jerry pilot. Did Larry David have an encounter with Michael Richards or that actor that played the actor playing Kramer in the Jerry pilot, since that actor did try out for Kramer for real. Did he really steal those rasins?

[arrogantmodel]

I also think that you could start watching at any point and know who was who and what was going on. The show didn't have long storylines that went on for a season or anything you had to go back and watch. Like each episode was it's own stand alone thing.

But yeah, my friends to this day still reference lines and phrases from the show. It's one of my favorite shows ever. It also doesn't hurt that my name is Jerry too. 😊

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 2, 2020 20:52:04 GMT -5 horsemen4ever said:

One thing I always wondered was the influence for George's conflict with the actor that played Kramer on the Jerry pilot. Did Larry David have an encounter with Michael Richards or that actor that played the actor playing Kramer in the Jerry pilot, since that actor did try out for Kramer for real. Did he really steal those rasins?

The actor who played Kramer in there episode did actually audition for Kramer originally. Also, if you watch the episode, steals the raisins.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 2, 2020 20:56:45 GMT -5 arrogantmodel said:

I also think that you could start watching at any point and know who was who and what was going on. The show didn't have long storylines that went on for a season or anything you had to go back and watch. Like each episode was it's own stand alone thing.

But yeah, my friends to this day still reference lines and phrases from the show. It's one of my favorite shows ever. It also doesn't hurt that my name is Jerry too. 😊

Strongly disagree. You gotta watch in order. Stuff they mention in passing in like the second episode shows up in the 8th season. Also season 4 and 7 are completely arch’s.

[horsemen4ever]

Jan 2, 2020 21:10:44 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Jan 2, 2020 20:52:04 GMT -5 horsemen4ever said:

One thing I always wondered was the influence for George's conflict with the actor that played Kramer on the Jerry pilot. Did Larry David have an encounter with Michael Richards or that actor that played the actor playing Kramer in the Jerry pilot, since that actor did try out for Kramer for real. Did he really steal those rasins?

The actor who played Kramer in there episode did actually audition for Kramer originally. Also, if you watch the episode, steals the raisins.

I know, I am talking about in real life, when he tried out for Kramer for real did he steal rasins or something from the audition.

[A Platypus Rave]

One thing not really touched on was Seinfeld broke the idea of "A Story" "B storY" which was how ALL Sitcoms were written before it.

Where each character would have their own fully fleshed out story that met at the end to tell the overarching story. (for instance "The Contest" each character has their own struggles that you see until the end of the episode where it comes together)

I've seen some people wonder what the appeal was... a lot of later shows copied the stuff that Seinfield started until they became tropes themselves.

[arrogantmodel]

Jan 2, 2020 21:12:12 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Jan 2, 2020 20:56:45 GMT -5 arrogantmodel said:

I also think that you could start watching at any point and know who was who and what was going on. The show didn't have long storylines that went on for a season or anything you had to go back and watch. Like each episode was it's own stand alone thing.

But yeah, my friends to this day still reference lines and phrases from the show. It's one of my favorite shows ever. It also doesn't hurt that my name is Jerry too. 😊

Strongly disagree. You gotta watch in order. Stuff they mention in passing in like the second episode shows up in the 8th season. Also season 4 and 7 are completely arch’s.

Huh. I never saw it that way. I explained it to people who never watched it that way. Yeah, things get brought up again from time to time, but I didn't think it was recurring. Like every episode was over at the end besides a couple.

And as far as controversies, the only problem Seinfeld had was with the Puerto Rican Day Parade episode, right?

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 2, 2020 22:37:08 GMT -5 arrogantmodel said:

Jan 2, 2020 21:12:12 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Strongly disagree. You gotta watch in order. Stuff they mention in passing in like the second episode shows up in the 8th season. Also season 4 and 7 are completely arch’s.

Huh. I never saw it that way. I explained it to people who never watched it that way. Yeah, things get brought up again from time to time, but I didn't think it was recurring. Like every episode was over at the end besides a couple.

And as far as controversies, the only problem Seinfeld had was with the Puerto Rican Day Parade episode, right?

Yeah, that was the only major one. They got like 13 complaints for the Contest episode. Some comedian also did a whole routine based on how he was discriminated against for refusing to do a Latin accent when cast as the pool boy in that episode, he was fired and replaced by the guy in the episode, who's name remains Ramon. Kathy Griffin also had a run-in with Jerry after filming her episode and used it in stand-up, that was largely used as the basis for the episode where she returns as a stand-up doing a bit about how awful Jerry is.

[Shark]

Jan 2, 2020 22:37:08 GMT -5 arrogantmodel said:

Jan 2, 2020 21:12:12 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

Strongly disagree. You gotta watch in order. Stuff they mention in passing in like the second episode shows up in the 8th season. Also season 4 and 7 are completely arch’s.

Huh. I never saw it that way. I explained it to people who never watched it that way. Yeah, things get brought up again from time to time, but I didn't think it was recurring. Like every episode was over at the end besides a couple.

And as far as controversies, the only problem Seinfeld had was with the Puerto Rican Day Parade episode, right?

That was the only episode pulled from syndication I believe. But the way they killed off Susan was a pretty big one too. A lot of fans were appalled at how that was handled, though personally I think it's one of the signature moments on the show.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Jan 2, 2020 21:31:26 GMT -5 horsemen4ever said:

Jan 2, 2020 21:10:44 GMT -5 Cranjis McBasketball said:

The actor who played Kramer in there episode did actually audition for Kramer originally. Also, if you watch the episode, steals the raisins.

I know, I am talking about in real life, when he tried out for Kramer for real did he steal rasins or something from the audition.

Nothing happened to my knowledge. The Real Kramer insisted he play Kramer, which was transformed back into the show with Kramer insisting he play Kramer on Jerry's show. As far as the stealing, probably just a funny scene, but could be wrong. Whatever it was, they brought the guy back to go that meta, so they couldn't have been so angry. Michael Richards ended his audition by doing a handstand and did yell at Larry David, who listening behind the door, just to mess with him, so maybe that got pulled in.

Which brings up another point for the OP. It, along with the Simpsons, broke when VCR's were becoming a thing. You gotta go back to see he really did take the raisins, because you wouldn't have noticed the first time.

[Deleted]

I don't know about tv, but life...



Bought a new jacket about a month ago and only thing I could think was this episode 'cause I felt freakin' incredible.  

[horsemen4ever]

Well the trio of Jerry, George, and Kramer, they do influnced by Disney's classic trio of Mickey, Donald, and Goofy. Watch an old Disney cartoon that stars those three characters or something like Mickey and the Beanstock or the The Mousekaters, that is animated Seinfeld.