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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 2, 2020 9:36:03 GMT -5
As they should Just for the minor league time manipulation alone was worth going to bat for. Players have essentially been "forced" into signing long term deals or they risk being f***ed with and not getting their for 7-8 years instead of 6. Braves have basically stolen money. Don't get me wrong, the financial/accountant side of me applauds them getting smart deals done without breaking bank but the other side of me knows they took advantage. $100 mill for Acuna is a steal. $40 mill for Albes is a steal. Manfred opening his big mouth gives MLBPA much needed leverage. Clark and Co got gifted a lay up and they better not Patrick Ewing it Making matters worse is that by the time some of these players become free agents, they are closing in on 30 year's old or older, and that is when players (post PED's) tend to decline. Teams being more analytical realize that paying big money for a player's declining years doesn't make sense, so now free agent deals for non-superstars are not going to be as lucrative as they used to be. That is what makes Acuna and Albies' deals even more questionable. I realize they probably come from poor backgrounds and guaranteed money up front is likely going to help their families, but both players would have been free agents after their age 26 seasons. It would be more risky going year to year, especially for Albies who is a short 2B and those don't always age well, but Acuna probably cost himself well over $100 million by signing a deal for $100 million. It's insanity. Service time manipulation has to be fixed in the next CBA, but so does a player's salary from their 0-6 years. It will never happen because owners are cheap as hell, but increase the league minimum to $1 million and start arbitration after year 2. That way players are at least millionaires by the time they reach the league, and get to be paid more fairly in their primes. And even in cases where you aren't trying to manipulate time, they need to do something about these deals. Set some type of standard so the players don't get taken advantage of but also get their fair share of money. Look at Judge with the Yankees, I am pretty sure he's made more money on endorsements then his rookie contract and the worst thing is he won't be a free agent until he's 30/31 and he already has injury issues. His value to what he should be making is going to be f***ed Acuna could have easily gotten another $100 mill. Majority of the teams are taking the Rays approach of signing talent when they young and players see guaranteed money. Jimenez signed for like $60 mill I think. Someone else on the White Sox signed for cheap like $60-$75 mill. Don't get me wrong, this is life changing money but in your industry if this gamble pays off the owner is saving himself more then double he should be paying for your talent. This all comes from the FA manipulation too. Now, even when players reach FA, they don't get paid like they should. The middle man is essentially cut out. Either you get the big time $200 mill deal or you're stuck going year to year until someone caves in. MLBPA needs to be arguing for a "floor". Teams have to spend $50 mill min or whatever percentage you want to apply but we shouldn't be having situations like the Marlins spending $25-$30 mill and then being able to recoup money thanks to the big market teams having to pay out to those at the bottom.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jul 2, 2020 10:00:24 GMT -5
Also apparently Manfred said the season was never going to be more than 60 games, and the whole negotiations was just a farce just to see if the players would cave so the owners could save some money This deserves a TON more coverage than it got. Nonsense like this is only going to help further kill the game and any goodwill the fans have for it. The CBA negotiations at the end of the season are going to be an absolute shitshow. Buckle up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 10:49:37 GMT -5
Making matters worse is that by the time some of these players become free agents, they are closing in on 30 year's old or older, and that is when players (post PED's) tend to decline. Teams being more analytical realize that paying big money for a player's declining years doesn't make sense, so now free agent deals for non-superstars are not going to be as lucrative as they used to be. That is what makes Acuna and Albies' deals even more questionable. I realize they probably come from poor backgrounds and guaranteed money up front is likely going to help their families, but both players would have been free agents after their age 26 seasons. It would be more risky going year to year, especially for Albies who is a short 2B and those don't always age well, but Acuna probably cost himself well over $100 million by signing a deal for $100 million. It's insanity. Service time manipulation has to be fixed in the next CBA, but so does a player's salary from their 0-6 years. It will never happen because owners are cheap as hell, but increase the league minimum to $1 million and start arbitration after year 2. That way players are at least millionaires by the time they reach the league, and get to be paid more fairly in their primes. And even in cases where you aren't trying to manipulate time, they need to do something about these deals. Set some type of standard so the players don't get taken advantage of but also get their fair share of money. Look at Judge with the Yankees, I am pretty sure he's made more money on endorsements then his rookie contract and the worst thing is he won't be a free agent until he's 30/31 and he already has injury issues. His value to what he should be making is going to be f***ed Acuna could have easily gotten another $100 mill. Majority of the teams are taking the Rays approach of signing talent when they young and players see guaranteed money. Jimenez signed for like $60 mill I think. Someone else on the White Sox signed for cheap like $60-$75 mill. Don't get me wrong, this is life changing money but in your industry if this gamble pays off the owner is saving himself more then double he should be paying for your talent. This all comes from the FA manipulation too. Now, even when players reach FA, they don't get paid like they should. The middle man is essentially cut out. Either you get the big time $200 mill deal or you're stuck going year to year until someone caves in. MLBPA needs to be arguing for a "floor". Teams have to spend $50 mill min or whatever percentage you want to apply but we shouldn't be having situations like the Marlins spending $25-$30 mill and then being able to recoup money thanks to the big market teams having to pay out to those at the bottom. Yeah, I really hope the Yankees take care of Aaron Judge, even if they have to eat some bad money at the end. He has been a MVP type of player for his first 3 years in the big leagues, and he's made $1.8 million over those 3 years. It's a joke. Even his 2020 salary prior to Covid would have been $8.5 million (it will be about $3.15 mil now in 60 games), which is still an insulting underpay for someone as good as him. As you said by the time he is a free agent, he will be 31. Whoever signs him at that point will be getting his worst years. It's a system designed to take advantage of the players. It needs to be reworked. I don't think we will see a salary floor only because the MLBPA does not want a salary cap under any circumstances. Maybe do something like restricted free agency. Say after 3 years a player is a restricted free agent. Hypothetically, let's assume Judge was a restricted free agent after 2019. The Red Sox offer him $200m over 7 years and he accepts. The Yankees then either match it or he goes to Boston. It's not a perfect scenario, just spitballing, but there has to be a way to get players to be paid fairly during their primes. Although, now that I think about it, that would destroy small market teams, so maybe not.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 2, 2020 11:05:24 GMT -5
And even in cases where you aren't trying to manipulate time, they need to do something about these deals. Set some type of standard so the players don't get taken advantage of but also get their fair share of money. Look at Judge with the Yankees, I am pretty sure he's made more money on endorsements then his rookie contract and the worst thing is he won't be a free agent until he's 30/31 and he already has injury issues. His value to what he should be making is going to be f***ed Acuna could have easily gotten another $100 mill. Majority of the teams are taking the Rays approach of signing talent when they young and players see guaranteed money. Jimenez signed for like $60 mill I think. Someone else on the White Sox signed for cheap like $60-$75 mill. Don't get me wrong, this is life changing money but in your industry if this gamble pays off the owner is saving himself more then double he should be paying for your talent. This all comes from the FA manipulation too. Now, even when players reach FA, they don't get paid like they should. The middle man is essentially cut out. Either you get the big time $200 mill deal or you're stuck going year to year until someone caves in. MLBPA needs to be arguing for a "floor". Teams have to spend $50 mill min or whatever percentage you want to apply but we shouldn't be having situations like the Marlins spending $25-$30 mill and then being able to recoup money thanks to the big market teams having to pay out to those at the bottom. Yeah, I really hope the Yankees take care of Aaron Judge, even if they have to eat some bad money at the end. He has been a MVP type of player for his first 3 years in the big leagues, and he's made $1.8 million over those 3 years. It's a joke. Even his 2020 salary prior to Covid would have been $8.5 million (it will be about $3.15 mil now in 60 games), which is still an insulting underpay for someone as good as him. As you said by the time he is a free agent, he will be 31. Whoever signs him at that point will be getting his worst years. It's a system designed to take advantage of the players. It needs to be reworked. I don't think we will see a salary floor only because the MLBPA does not want a salary cap under any circumstances. Maybe do something like restricted free agency. Say after 3 years a player is a restricted free agent. Hypothetically, let's assume Judge was a restricted free agent after 2019. The Red Sox offer him $200m over 7 years and he accepts. The Yankees then either match it or he goes to Boston. It's not a perfect scenario, just spitballing, but there has to be a way to get players to be paid fairly during their primes. Although, now that I think about it, that would destroy small market teams, so maybe not. Restricted free agency could work. However, teams are already trying to extend those 6 years as much as possible so they don't pay players, lowering it to 4 and teams get to bid would have the teams like Marlins, Pirates and Rays shitting on themselves There has to be some type of compromise to where players are getting paid and you are forcing these "bottom payroll" teams to spend money. It is why I said a salary floor. Forcing teams to spend up to a certain percentage would at least ensure some players will get paid ala the NBA. NBA has a salary cap yes but the floor is also important so you aren't just tanking and still getting bank off ticket sales. Knicks paid multiple players on year contracts just to have that settled. A year ago Jabari Parked signed a one year $20 mill deal. It isn't perfect but you get the point. Also on a diff tangent, MLB should be allowing you to trade your picks (I think they do but on a limited scale). Either way, there needs to be a middle ground. Teams are "forcing" players to either take a deal that will minimize their cash earning or make them sit in the minors so they can get an extra year of control out of them. 6 years is a long time to wait to get the big bucks. Arbitration is there but it only leads to bad feelings considering you have to argue against your player making this amount of money compared to what you want them to make.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 11:19:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I really hope the Yankees take care of Aaron Judge, even if they have to eat some bad money at the end. He has been a MVP type of player for his first 3 years in the big leagues, and he's made $1.8 million over those 3 years. It's a joke. Even his 2020 salary prior to Covid would have been $8.5 million (it will be about $3.15 mil now in 60 games), which is still an insulting underpay for someone as good as him. As you said by the time he is a free agent, he will be 31. Whoever signs him at that point will be getting his worst years. It's a system designed to take advantage of the players. It needs to be reworked. I don't think we will see a salary floor only because the MLBPA does not want a salary cap under any circumstances. Maybe do something like restricted free agency. Say after 3 years a player is a restricted free agent. Hypothetically, let's assume Judge was a restricted free agent after 2019. The Red Sox offer him $200m over 7 years and he accepts. The Yankees then either match it or he goes to Boston. It's not a perfect scenario, just spitballing, but there has to be a way to get players to be paid fairly during their primes. Although, now that I think about it, that would destroy small market teams, so maybe not. Restricted free agency could work. However, teams are already trying to extend those 6 years as much as possible so they don't pay players, lowering it to 4 and teams get to bid would have the teams like Marlins, Pirates and Rays shitting on themselves There has to be some type of compromise to where players are getting paid and you are forcing these "bottom payroll" teams to spend money. It is why I said a salary floor. Forcing teams to spend up to a certain percentage would at least ensure some players will get paid ala the NBA. NBA has a salary cap yes but the floor is also important so you aren't just tanking and still getting bank off ticket sales. Knicks paid multiple players on year contracts just to have that settled. A year ago Jabari Parked signed a one year $20 mill deal. It isn't perfect but you get the point. Also on a diff tangent, MLB should be allowing you to trade your picks (I think they do but on a limited scale). Either way, there needs to be a middle ground. Teams are "forcing" players to either take a deal that will minimize their cash earning or make them sit in the minors so they can get an extra year of control out of them. 6 years is a long time to wait to get the big bucks. Arbitration is there but it only leads to bad feelings considering you have to argue against your player making this amount of money compared to what you want them to make. I think a salary floor is a great idea, but the MLBPA would have to accept a salary cap, which is something they refuse to do. Which actually surprises me because MLB made over $10b in revenue last season. If there was revenue sharing between the owners and players, then it would be impossible for owners to hide revenue streams or cry poor like the players are accusing them of now. It might actually benefit the players to have a salary cap rather than the owners. Baseball is weird. I agree with you about arbitration as well. Usually the numbers are off by $100-300k, which seems pointless to go to an arbitrator for and possibly create bad blood between the player and the team. That's why I mentioned restricted free agency so that it eliminates that and still gives the existing team the best shot at keeping the player long term. Either way, I doubt the owners would want restricted free agency or any free agency before 6 years, so it would be back to the drawing board. Yeah, I can't see how there is a 2022 baseball season. The game is so messed up from a salary standpoint that it's a shock that MLBPA has swallowed this for as long as they have.
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RKTaker
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,292
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Post by RKTaker on Jul 2, 2020 12:39:59 GMT -5
the problem with putting in a salary cap now is where do you cap it at this poing? there’s already players that make $300 mil and they’re not going to take a paycut
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Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
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I believe in Joe Hendry.
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Post by Spider2024 on Jul 3, 2020 10:07:46 GMT -5
Just realized how much Red Sox GM Chaim Bloom totally looks like Edge.
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Post by häšhtå.gdālėÿ on Jul 3, 2020 11:18:31 GMT -5
Just realized how much Red Sox GM Chaim Bloom totally looks like Edge. Looks like Jayson Werth to me.
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Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
Dedicated 6,666th post to Irontyger
I believe in Joe Hendry.
Posts: 39,076
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Post by Spider2024 on Jul 3, 2020 11:29:31 GMT -5
Just realized how much Red Sox GM Chaim Bloom totally looks like Edge. Looks like Jayson Werth to me. I guess after tons of shaving, he would. Also, wow, Jayson totally reeks of Edgeness as well.
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RKTaker
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by RKTaker on Jul 3, 2020 12:58:23 GMT -5
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RKTaker
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,292
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Post by RKTaker on Jul 3, 2020 15:56:58 GMT -5
first round of testing reveals 1.2% of personnel testing positive
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 16:05:26 GMT -5
From Joel Sherman: "Total number of positives 38, which is 1.2% of the 3,185 total samples tested".
That's actually really low. I was expecting much worse. Hopefully they can keep the players safe as they travel.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 3, 2020 16:58:49 GMT -5
Mike Trout is uneasy about everything
Makes sense. I think he has a kid on the way. Unlike the NBA or NFL, MLB losing their top guy wouldn’t be a big blow in all honesty
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 17:21:05 GMT -5
Mike Trout is uneasy about everything Makes sense. I think he has a kid on the way. Unlike the NBA or NFL, MLB losing their top guy wouldn’t be a big blow in all honesty Yeah, I guess the one positive about baseball is that it’s not star driven. Trout can sit home, be with his family, come back in 2021, and baseball won’t see any decline in interest. He has guaranteed money for the next decade plus and endorsements. He’s good. Being there for the birth of his child is more important.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 3, 2020 17:27:06 GMT -5
Mike Trout is uneasy about everything Makes sense. I think he has a kid on the way. Unlike the NBA or NFL, MLB losing their top guy wouldn’t be a big blow in all honesty Yeah, I guess the one positive about baseball is that it’s not star driven. Trout can sit home, be with his family, come back in 2021, and baseball won’t see any decline in interest. He has guaranteed money for the next decade plus and endorsements. He’s good. Being there for the birth of his child is more important. I’m of two mindsets. 1. Without question he should be with his wife for the birth of their first child. It’s a special time and his family needs him 2. I won’t lie if I’m the Angels I’m a little salty. The selfish side of me will say listen we pay you to not just be a baseball player but be the face of our franchise. That money comes with sacrifices to be made You don’t want to piss off your star player so if anyone does feel a way you won’t hear about it
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RKTaker
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,292
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Post by RKTaker on Jul 3, 2020 18:09:12 GMT -5
From Joel Sherman: "Total number of positives 38, which is 1.2% of the 3,185 total samples tested". That's actually really low. I was expecting much worse. Hopefully they can keep the players safe as they travel. yeah, the real test is the next time they test everyone in a couple of weeks or whenever to see if there's a significant increase now that everyone's together working out
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jul 3, 2020 22:41:34 GMT -5
Mike Trout is uneasy about everything Makes sense. I think he has a kid on the way. Unlike the NBA or NFL, MLB losing their top guy wouldn’t be a big blow in all honesty Trout opting out would open the floodgate to stars opting out. Bryce Harper's wife is pregnant, so he could opt out. If Harper opts out, it would be a bigger blow than Trout. Trout's a better player, but Harper's the bigger star. Kris Bryant and Gerrit Cole's wives just had kids, so Trout opting out, could lead to them opting out. Do what's best for your family.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 4, 2020 8:26:40 GMT -5
Mike Trout is uneasy about everything Makes sense. I think he has a kid on the way. Unlike the NBA or NFL, MLB losing their top guy wouldn’t be a big blow in all honesty Trout opting out would open the floodgate to stars opting out. Bryce Harper's wife is pregnant, so he could opt out. If Harper opts out, it would be a bigger blow than Trout. Trout's a better player, but Harper's the bigger star. Kris Bryant and Gerrit Cole's wives just had kids, so Trout opting out, could lead to them opting out. Do what's best for your family. Bryce had his kid already unless she’s pregnant again and he’s been adamant about playing tho his mind could change. Gerrit Cole has been saying he wants to play so I think he’s in unless he changes his mind. Kris Bryant just had his kid like April so I could see him opting out. Plus there is others that has been sick that you can consider not coming in. Surprised Rizzo hasn’t opted out
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jul 4, 2020 8:36:11 GMT -5
Trout opting out would open the floodgate to stars opting out. Bryce Harper's wife is pregnant, so he could opt out. If Harper opts out, it would be a bigger blow than Trout. Trout's a better player, but Harper's the bigger star. Kris Bryant and Gerrit Cole's wives just had kids, so Trout opting out, could lead to them opting out. Do what's best for your family. Bryce had his kid already unless she’s pregnant again and he’s been adamant about playing tho his mind could change. Gerrit Cole has been saying he wants to play so I think he’s in unless he changes his mind. Kris Bryant just had his kid like April so I could see him opting out. Plus there is others that has been sick that you can consider not coming in. Surprised Rizzo hasn’t opted out About a week ago Harper and his wife announced they were expecting their second kid. If Trout opts out, you're gonna see more stars opt out.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jul 4, 2020 8:52:20 GMT -5
Bryce had his kid already unless she’s pregnant again and he’s been adamant about playing tho his mind could change. Gerrit Cole has been saying he wants to play so I think he’s in unless he changes his mind. Kris Bryant just had his kid like April so I could see him opting out. Plus there is others that has been sick that you can consider not coming in. Surprised Rizzo hasn’t opted out About a week ago Harper and his wife announced they were expecting their second kid. If Trout opts out, you're gonna see more stars opt out. Bryce wasting no time And Idk. I don’t expect a mass exodus because Trout left. His voice doesn’t carry much weight despite being the best player. If players wanted to sit out they would did it over the money concerns. Snell was a guy who said he wasn’t taking a cut but yet he showed up. If anything people might try to use Trout as their own rallying cry but it’s hard to say who’s going to leave at this moment
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