|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 18, 2020 12:43:42 GMT -5
There are numerous people who cover this stuff who think the sign stealing stuff is pervasive across all of baseball. Joe Sheehan is probably the most level headed when it comes to covering this as he isn't going apeshit like some of the reporters and is saying this is like steroids, a wide spread problem that they didn't care about and now to scapegoat the Astros is basically shoving blame. Then we watch other players/teams lose their minds in a deflection when in reality they were doing it too. He also had my favorite comeback to Bellingers shit also...yes their video made you hit 143 in that WS didn't it? Yeah, again, teams like LA and the Yankees have already either been dinged for using technology in the dugout or have had other teams level some interesting accusations against them, as well. It sticks out to me that, according to the stories being presented, Carlos Beltran arrived in Houston and told them "You guys aren't keeping up with the rest of the league with your sign stealing, let me get you caught up"; the team he was coming from, of course, was the Yankees. This is a pervasive problem, the Astros were probably just too overt about it, and Manfred's handled it poorly with the way he's basically shifted all consequences to GMs and managers...never the owners, of course, since he's their paid waterboy. Can't really worry about what ifs tho. The facts are the Astros f***ed up and got caught. Beltran comes across a bit of a scapegoat in this as well as the story keeps fluctuating in that it came from management and then it came from the players. Manfred f****ed up and whoever is doing the same thing as the Stros won't stop
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Feb 18, 2020 18:45:30 GMT -5
Looks like Manfred is passing the buck to the MLBPA leadership when it comes to lack of punishment towards the Astros' players.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 18, 2020 19:03:57 GMT -5
|
|
BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
Posts: 16,869
|
Post by BRV on Feb 18, 2020 19:42:19 GMT -5
Can the commish even go back and punish them again without their being interference from the players union? What I would have done? Barred from the postseason for 3 seasons (essentially the amount of time they did this) There's no way Major League Baseball would ever do this. You'd effectively be killing baseball for three years in the country's seventh-largest TV market and basically telling 2.85 million paying fans (the number of fans who turned out to Minute Maid Park in 2019) that there's no reason to show up at the ballpark for three years. That's the sort of financial hit that the entirety of baseball, not just the Houston Astros, would not be able to recover from. Oh hallelujah. I was waiting with bated breath to hear LeBron James stick his beak into this.
|
|
|
Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Feb 18, 2020 19:54:41 GMT -5
The punishment should be nothing. Gamesmanship is part of baseball. I think having people cheat and be heels helps the sport because it’s kinda boring.
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,043
|
Post by Mecca on Feb 18, 2020 20:21:25 GMT -5
The players that are bitching and being candid should be honest both ways. Had they been on the team they'd have went a long with it too. The Astros didn't go find 25 morally bankrupt players to pull this off.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2020 5:37:35 GMT -5
Can they at least take back the $30m the Astros got from the 2017 postseason players pool?
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Feb 19, 2020 8:34:31 GMT -5
Yeah, again, teams like LA and the Yankees have already either been dinged for using technology in the dugout or have had other teams level some interesting accusations against them, as well. It sticks out to me that, according to the stories being presented, Carlos Beltran arrived in Houston and told them "You guys aren't keeping up with the rest of the league with your sign stealing, let me get you caught up"; the team he was coming from, of course, was the Yankees. This is a pervasive problem, the Astros were probably just too overt about it, and Manfred's handled it poorly with the way he's basically shifted all consequences to GMs and managers...never the owners, of course, since he's their paid waterboy. Can't really worry about what ifs tho. The facts are the Astros f***ed up and got caught. Beltran comes across a bit of a scapegoat in this as well as the story keeps fluctuating in that it came from management and then it came from the players. Manfred f****ed up and whoever is doing the same thing as the Stros won't stop Some of the sports guys I listen to on the radio seem to think Beltran is brought into it so much because he likely lied during the investigation to MLB I think the other issue is that the Astros for a few years have had the reputation of being extremely arrogant in their actions and in talking down to people who dare question them let alone criticize them. Truth be told, the Astros had become a fairly unlikable organization.
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,043
|
Post by Mecca on Feb 19, 2020 8:37:32 GMT -5
Can't really worry about what ifs tho. The facts are the Astros f***ed up and got caught. Beltran comes across a bit of a scapegoat in this as well as the story keeps fluctuating in that it came from management and then it came from the players. Manfred f****ed up and whoever is doing the same thing as the Stros won't stop Some of the sports guys I listen to on the radio seem to think Beltran is brought into it so much because he likely lied during the investigation to MLB I think the other issue is that the Astros for a few years have had the reputation of being extremely arrogant in their actions and in talking down to people who dare question them let alone criticize them. Truth be told, the Astros had become a fairly unlikable organization. No one likes winners....the SB thread on here has someone calling Patrick Mahomes a dick, there is nothing about that guy that says he's anything but great other than he wins.
|
|
domrep
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by domrep on Feb 19, 2020 9:08:21 GMT -5
Can the commish even go back and punish them again without their being interference from the players union? What I would have done? Barred from the postseason for 3 seasons (essentially the amount of time they did this) There's no way Major League Baseball would ever do this. You'd effectively be killing baseball for three years in the country's seventh-largest TV market and basically telling 2.85 million paying fans (the number of fans who turned out to Minute Maid Park in 2019) that there's no reason to show up at the ballpark for three years. That's the sort of financial hit that the entirety of baseball, not just the Houston Astros, would not be able to recover from. Oh hallelujah. I was waiting with bated breath to hear LeBron James stick his beak into this. But what about all the other markets this affected? Pitchers careers, coaches? This goes far beyond $, they cheated to win a championship. It's unprecedented.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Feb 19, 2020 10:11:01 GMT -5
Some of the sports guys I listen to on the radio seem to think Beltran is brought into it so much because he likely lied during the investigation to MLB I think the other issue is that the Astros for a few years have had the reputation of being extremely arrogant in their actions and in talking down to people who dare question them let alone criticize them. Truth be told, the Astros had become a fairly unlikable organization. No one likes winners....the SB thread on here has someone calling Patrick Mahomes a dick, there is nothing about that guy that says he's anything but great other than he wins. It's not just the winning: look at Crane's recent disastrous press conferences, go back and look at that story about the asshole in their front office who harassed female reporters and only got punished because of a sustained outcry, this current scandal, and a general air of arrogance around the entire operation only makes it all worse. And Manfred can eat it with his blaming the union stuff, the MLBPA came right out and shut that down. Meanwhile the water carriers for the commissioner on MLB Radio this morning were doing everything they could to cover for Manfred, from Steve Philips minimizing the "piece of metal" comment to them reading the commissioner's office and the PA's statements on player immunity and immediately spinning it as "Well, Manfred wasn't really blaming the union..." when it's obvious he was. I feel like I made a wish on a monkey's paw a few years back that Bud Selig would no longer be commissioner of MLB, and instead of one finger curling down it's like four of them did at once, leaving a giant, hairy, monkey middle finger while a disembodied voice said "Eat shit, kid, here comes Rob Manfred." Manfred sucks, and I follow a sport where Gary Bettman's in charge.
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,043
|
Post by Mecca on Feb 19, 2020 10:46:28 GMT -5
There's no way Major League Baseball would ever do this. You'd effectively be killing baseball for three years in the country's seventh-largest TV market and basically telling 2.85 million paying fans (the number of fans who turned out to Minute Maid Park in 2019) that there's no reason to show up at the ballpark for three years. That's the sort of financial hit that the entirety of baseball, not just the Houston Astros, would not be able to recover from. Oh hallelujah. I was waiting with bated breath to hear LeBron James stick his beak into this. But what about all the other markets this affected? Pitchers careers, coaches? This goes far beyond $, they cheated to win a championship. It's unprecedented. It's really not....
|
|
domrep
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by domrep on Feb 19, 2020 12:42:37 GMT -5
But what about all the other markets this affected? Pitchers careers, coaches? This goes far beyond $, they cheated to win a championship. It's unprecedented. It's really not.... Using buzzers, cameras from center field and trash can bangings goes far beyond what any team probably does IMO.
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,043
|
Post by Mecca on Feb 19, 2020 12:43:55 GMT -5
Using buzzers, cameras from center field and trash can bangings goes far beyond what any team probably does IMO. Cheating is pervasive throughout baseball and sports in general, I don't buy they are the only team that has elaborate means of cheating.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 19, 2020 12:50:41 GMT -5
Using buzzers, cameras from center field and trash can bangings goes far beyond what any team probably does IMO. Cheating is pervasive throughout baseball and sports in general, I don't buy they are the only team that has elaborate means of cheating. But they got got caught Until someone else get caught can't really do the what if game
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 19, 2020 12:52:36 GMT -5
Using buzzers, cameras from center field and trash can bangings goes far beyond what any team probably does IMO. Yea, let's stop trying to downplay this In any other scandal involving players or whatever, they get in trouble. The players got away scott free in this
|
|
domrep
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,461
|
Post by domrep on Feb 19, 2020 12:53:15 GMT -5
Cheating is pervasive throughout baseball and sports in general, I don't buy they are the only team that has elaborate means of cheating. But they got got caught Until someone else get caught can't really do the what if game Right, like I'm sure there are teams doing other things, maybe even worse than buzzers and all that crap but they got caught and have to pay the consequences for this. If all they're gonna lose are draft picks and some cash, then the penalty won't be harsh. And keep in mind, this is the MLB Draft, that first round pick may not pan out or if he does, he probably won't sniff the big leagues for another 3-4 years anyway. The punishment wasn't severe enough.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 19, 2020 12:56:57 GMT -5
But they got got caught Until someone else get caught can't really do the what if game Right, like I'm sure there are teams doing other things, maybe even worse than buzzers and all that crap but they got caught and have to pay the consequences for this. If all they're gonna lose are draft picks and some cash, then the penalty won't be harsh. And keep in mind, this is the MLB Draft, that first round pick may not pan out or if he does, he probably won't sniff the big leagues for another 3-4 years anyway. The punishment wasn't severe enough. The fact that the players did not get in trouble will be the reason why it will still continue to happen No, I do not think they should get some post season ban or something like that but losing international money and picks for a min of two years should be doable. Hell, the most extreme they could did was give players a suspension of 20 games but the MLBPA ain't going to hear that shit
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,043
|
Post by Mecca on Feb 19, 2020 12:59:56 GMT -5
Cheating is pervasive throughout baseball and sports in general, I don't buy they are the only team that has elaborate means of cheating. But they got got caught Until someone else get caught can't really do the what if game The Patriots got busted a bunch of times...NFL don't care.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Feb 19, 2020 17:18:43 GMT -5
But they got got caught Until someone else get caught can't really do the what if game The Patriots got busted a bunch of times...NFL don't care. That's the NFL MLB likes to hold on to tradition and all that ole bull shit. People in the NFL circles don't care but enough voices in MLB are talking to say this won't be wiped away tho Manfred doesn't really have the balls to do anything more then he's done already
|
|