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Post by jason1980s on Mar 22, 2020 10:55:01 GMT -5
I think the family murder/suicide is the biggest tragedy ever to hit wrestling. It was just so strange and horrible that nothing really compares not even Brody, Bravo murders or Von Erich's or Hart Family deaths. How anyone can kill their wife and child, mental illness or not I'll never know.
I'm also wish Vicki had been treated better in WWE. I know she was probably in need of income and didn't fit the disgusting 60 year old 5 year old's mind of what a woman should look like but I always found her very beautiful.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Mar 22, 2020 12:48:04 GMT -5
Very difficult/painful to watch and re-live all that.
Hadn’t known Eddie died in Chavos arms. Not sure if Eddie was going through agonal breathing but that’s absolute devastating regardless.
Vicki and Nancy’s relationship, especially after Eddies death, is heartbreaking because you know what follows.
I have no idea how Dean and Jericho cope with all this. To this day. Just insane.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 22, 2020 13:10:04 GMT -5
I honestly feel like this two parter might have an angel/devil feel to it. The first part, while it had to talk about Benoit's slide... it really seemed to highlight the good points of Chris. The second part will probably get deeper into the hard, uncomfortable facts. I haven't watched it yet, I will at some point today or this week but in speaking on this; if they are interviewing Nancy sister then it will def get dark Chavo spoke on the text before on TIJ. When Nancy sister went on TIJ she divulged some info she got from the cops, I believe a week or two up until the murder he was searching online on how to break his neck the fastest or something like that. His mind was already fully gone
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Post by corndog on Mar 22, 2020 13:45:46 GMT -5
Obviously most of us knew about how the murders went down, but I definitely learned some things from this and it's very moving.
I always kind of felt Benoit was the bad guy in the Sullivan/Nancy situation, but learning that Kevin physically abused her completely changes my feelings on that.
Another thing was just completely forgetting about Chavo. Having his brother die in his arms, then the Benoit situation which he tied into. I don't know how he is in such good shape. Same with Vickie, who losses her husband and then a best friend in Nancy. I know Vickie was an annoying character, but after what her and Chavo went through, they deserved jobs from WWE and while Eddie's death was exploited for storylines, it really shows Vince has a good side in some ways.
On the final note, it shows that the Chris Benoit that killed his wife, son and then himself wasn't the real Chris Benoit. I think it was cross between the head trauma caused by wrestling and losing his best friend, who was really more than a best friend that he traveled with for years, compounded to cause this. It's a tragedy that unfortunately could have been stopped with current knowledge. I watched an interview with his son not long ago, where he said on the bright side this tragedy opened people's eyes to CTE.
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Mar 22, 2020 14:20:45 GMT -5
Is there anywhere to watch the rest of this series? I don't see anything on Hulu or YouTube. Has it been released on BluRay or anything?
Edit: just saw they're all in the Vice website.
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Post by crowley1986 on Mar 22, 2020 14:25:15 GMT -5
the first series is on youtube and if your in the UK, it was up on the all4 streaming service
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Post by jason1980s on Mar 22, 2020 14:48:17 GMT -5
I know Vickie was an annoying character, but after what her and Chavo went through, they deserved jobs from WWE and while Eddie's death was exploited for storylines, it really shows Vince has a good side in some ways. It was good she had a job but she didn't have to be put in such a way to embarrass her. She could have been hired as a backstage staff member even if low level. She didn't deserve the "hog splash" or jokes about her appearance. Sorry to go off topic. I personally will never forget Steven Regal's reaction during the tribute segment. I wonder what was going through the minds of all WWE employees at the time.
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Blindkarevik
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Post by Blindkarevik on Mar 22, 2020 15:21:59 GMT -5
I know Vickie was an annoying character, but after what her and Chavo went through, they deserved jobs from WWE and while Eddie's death was exploited for storylines, it really shows Vince has a good side in some ways. It was good she had a job but she didn't have to be put in such a way to embarrass her. She could have been hired as a backstage staff member even if low level. She didn't deserve the "hog splash" or jokes about her appearance. Sorry to go off topic. I personally will never forget Steven Regal's reaction during the tribute segment. I wonder what was going through the minds of all WWE employees at the time. Behind Undertaker, Benoit was my favorite wrestler of all time so of course after this happened there was a period of deep denial for me. So I tuned out Regal's words at the time, but going back.. they're just chilling as hell.
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SAJ Forth
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Post by SAJ Forth on Mar 22, 2020 15:27:08 GMT -5
It's so hard watching David. It's like he still hasn't processed this. It truly is. It's obvious he still loves his father, though seeing & hearing the way he loves his stepmother & half-brother makes this a complicated thing. Both Vickie & Chavo at lest in the first episode seem to be able to let go of some of the weight of Eddie's passing. It was nice seeing her face as she remembered meeting him.
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Post by Muskrat on Mar 22, 2020 15:31:45 GMT -5
Yup, that was hard to watch. Very well done tho.
Also, didn’t realise that CraveTV had partnered up with Vice to produce this second season. That should help ensure the series keeps going.
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Facetious
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Post by Facetious on Mar 24, 2020 21:52:28 GMT -5
Just watched part two. All I'm going to say is hopefully it puts an end to HOF talks, but wrestling fans are a weird bunch.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Mar 24, 2020 22:04:08 GMT -5
Just watched part two. All I'm going to say is hopefully it puts an end to HOF talks, but wrestling fans are a weird bunch. It should for anybody who has common sense anyway. I watched it too, It gain me a knew found respect for Jericho and Chavo. David clearly having a heart time with accepting what happened but in this he broke down. It is sad that he has to take all the heart for something he had no control over.
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Post by edgestar on Mar 24, 2020 22:18:49 GMT -5
That documentary was very good. It was heartwarming to see David and Sandra hug. I do feel sad, that Nancy's accomplishments won't be acknowledged in the HOF, since, as was said about Chris, the focus would be on the last hours of her life.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 24, 2020 22:30:09 GMT -5
Never really hit me just how much Chavo lost in such a short period of time.
Eddie, Chris, his dad. All gone pretty much one after the other. I pray he's getting the help he needs and can find peace.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 22:55:45 GMT -5
New Jack is going to be a disturbing episode, not just for the Mass Transit incident but for his stuff as a bounty hunter (where they get too much freedom as it is) and the Smoky Mountain angles.
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Toxik916
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Post by Toxik916 on Mar 24, 2020 23:38:35 GMT -5
I cried throughout part 1. It was just so heartbreaking seeing how much Eddy passing effected Chris as well as Chavo and Vickie.
Part 2 made me feel glad that Jericho and Chavo were both there for the grieving family. If David wants to wrestle I hope he can live his dream.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2020 23:39:51 GMT -5
At the risk of opening a can of worms, Jericho seems more forgiving than Malenko and Chavo. I wonder if it ever caused any rifts with them.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 24, 2020 23:41:47 GMT -5
Just watched part two of the Benoit episodes; it's very unsettling to go back and hear the step by step of how things went down, despite the fact that each part of it has been made public over time. It's hearing it all together at once that makes it come into terrifying clarity.
I was thrilled to see so many people reunited by the end, particularly David and Sandra; it's beyond difficult to shoulder grief alone, and having people in your life who know what you're going through can be vital and help bring you towards closure and a chance to move on. It's also great to see how Chavo and Jericho have had David's back, and special shout out to Chris Nowinski for the work he's done over the years on brain health, the guy deserves so much more recognition for providing something so important to an industry that spent way too many years with its head in the sand. Jericho's line about how Chris would react to the idea that he'd be effectively erased from wrestling history, or how Eddie would be remembered as a wrestling saint while Chris would be its darkest figure despite them traveling a nearly identical road in their careers, was particularly striking: the Chris he knew would be horrified at the thought, but that Chris would likely have never killed his family. The Chris that did it may well have thought about that, perhaps adding to the violent despair he fell into. Just chilling.
But yeah, it comes back to what I said before: when people try to paint the Benoit story in black and white terms, either to try and naively exonerate Benoit or to angrily turn him into a demonic figure from the pits, it feels like it's in service of avoiding the reality that life and biology are complicated, and that it's entirely possible that Chris Benoit the Good Man was a real person, but that Chris Benoit the Damaged Murderer was equally real because of that complexity.
Basically, CTE is no joke, and Benoit was almost a nightmarishly perfect case study for how far it can go: he worked in a profession based around physical contact, did it in an era where blows to the head were not highly protected and "hardcore" spots had become popular, spent the final seven years of his career and life working in a promotion that had him traveling the globe and bumping around 250-300 nights a year, all while continuously performing a signature move that involves a head bump, always working excessively hard to overcome stigmas about his height, and combined that with steroid abuse and deep emotional scars from the loss of so many close friends who were dying young from similar kinds of head trauma, enlarged hearts, and abuse of different substances, all likely reaching the boiling point when the one, best friend he always leaned on the most for support died in the same hotel he was staying at while on tour.
Given all that, it's not hard to imagine the brain wounds combining with his emotional damage and metastasizing into something hideous, unrecognizable to those who loved and respected the Chris Benoit who hadn't demonstrated all of those symptoms yet. It's the ultimate example in pro wrestling of how unfair the universe can be, especially in the way it denies us a neat and tidy target to place all the blame at and allow us to leave this as a clear cut, black and white matter, instead of the slow motion tragedy of physical, emotional, and neural trauma it was.
It's impossible for any of us to know for sure, but Jericho did point out in part one that he had kind of distanced from Benoit a bit around a year or so before the murders, I think. If I had to venture a guess, and that's 100% all this is, that likely made it a bit easier for Jericho to focus on, like I said, "the Chris he knew", the good man and loving husband and father. Chavo and Malenko were likely in more close and regular contact with Benoit in the year after Eddie's death and probably bore witness to the downward spiral he took, and I imagine that has to haunt them on some level, a feeling of betrayal because he did what he did, and now they get to live with the regrets and the "what ifs" about things they might have done differently, and that can be a beast to overcome, even when it's absolutely not your fault that terrible things happened.
That's where Jericho's mention of Regal's eulogy on the Benoit memorial stuck out: Jericho didn't seem to know that a dark cloud had been forming beyond "Wow, Chris isn't taking Eddie's death well", but Regal, who lived by Benoit, and likely Chavo and Dean, probably had a closer view of what was happening, and I'm guessing it meant a fundamentally different response to everything as it unfolded.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Mar 24, 2020 23:44:46 GMT -5
Like. All respect to David Benoit but that dude needs to stop talking about wanting to be a wrestler. It’s been the same thing for like 5 years at this point.
The Chris story is still so surreal. Even after all this time. Its f***ing insane to look back.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Mar 25, 2020 0:07:26 GMT -5
That was an emotionally exhausting viewing. It was like reliving the whole thing all over again. The police photos just made it even more real than it already was. Seeing Daniel's replica title belt laying on the floor next to where he was murdered just made me feel sick to my stomach. And to hear that Nancy probably died in as slow and a horrific way as possible...it's a lot to process. And David breaking down at the end was heartbreaking. I can't even imagine that kind of internal conflict over who your father was to you and what he did in the final days of his life. I'm glad he and Sandra were reunited. It's something they both clearly needed and I hope that being back in contact gives them some level of comfort or peace.
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