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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 25, 2020 0:22:59 GMT -5
Like. All respect to David Benoit but that dude needs to stop talking about wanting to be a wrestler. It’s been the same thing for like 5 years at this point. Yeah... at this point he's been talking about it for ages and hasn't done anything to try and make it happen. He hasn't stepped foot into an actual school or asked for one lesson... I'm sure folks like Jericho would help him out if he actually wanted to do it.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 25, 2020 0:25:59 GMT -5
I’m trying to watch the first part, the family videos make it very difficult.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 25, 2020 0:32:13 GMT -5
Man Chavo found him dead and the recreation itself...
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Timeless Hayterade
Dennis Stamp
Rhea's the Tribal Chief now. ACKNOWLEDGE MAMI!
Posts: 4,667
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Post by Timeless Hayterade on Mar 25, 2020 0:41:48 GMT -5
That was the toughest watch of this series I had to deal with.
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mattperiolat
King Koopa
Thank you, Brodie... for everything.
Posts: 11,403
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Post by mattperiolat on Mar 25, 2020 0:55:07 GMT -5
Shit...
That hurt. That hurt deeply.
I was not watching the product when the murders happened. I was taking a break because my then-fiancé hated the sport and I needed time off it anyway. But... I remember getting online that day and seeing that Chris and his wife and son were dead and like Chavo, I immediately thought carbon monoxide poisoning. I asked my fiancé if it was OK to watch Raw, she consented and basically hid in the office with the computer while I watched. And then, checked online after Raw and saw the words ‘Murder-Suicide’.
I remember lying in bed that night with my fiancé next to me and I asked if she would pray with me. She agreed, we joined hands and I prayed aloud for Nancy and Daniel... then I came to Chris and in the midst of the words, I remember just gazing up and asking aloud ‘What have you done, Chris? Why?’
The two hours tonight took me back there and seeing so much reflected back as I lived and what I remember. It’s... aside from Owen, the worst thing to ever happen in wrestling. And it is not spoken of, except in whispers, because it’s too horrific to think of... and we ask what did we miss? What did we see and ignore? What did we just accept as part of wrestling and not someone in pain and sliding toward darkness? It’s why Chris Benoit is buried - because of the evil, but also because we do not want to look at it because... it was there and it was missed.
And that’s just a fan’s perspective. Imagine family, friends, coworkers, loved ones... it is magnified a thousand and is just... beyond words. I cannot fathom life for David and Mike Benoit or for Nancy’s sister. But you pray so hard that, if possible, maybe something can still happen that is good and gives peace for themselves and for their futures.
Yeah, the doc is excellent... but my God, it hurts. Hurts beyond words to bear really.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 25, 2020 1:21:41 GMT -5
I learned that Benoit beat up Nancy and she got a restraining order.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,036
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 25, 2020 1:29:45 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe only CTE did this.
Granted, we know CTE makes you take leave of your senses but, there are plenty of people who have it and didn't kill their families and themselves. There's smoking gun that says "this is why it happened." As much as it makes things easier to say there is, there just isn't. It doesn't exist.
I truly believe it was a perfect storm of toxicity in health, in his obsessive personality, in stress, in grief, in interpersonal conflicts, and in all-around mental state that led to that fateful day.
I agree with Chris Jericho and Matthew Randazzo when they say that with everything we know now, there wasn't any other way his story could have ended other than in tragedy.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Mar 25, 2020 1:33:32 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe only CTE did this. Granted, we know CTE makes you take leave of your senses but, there are plenty of people who have it and didn't kill their families and themselves. There's smoking gun that says "this is why it happened." As much as it makes things easier to say there is, there just isn't. It doesn't exist. I truly believe it was a perfect storm of toxicity in health, in his obsessive personality, in stress, in grief, in interpersonal conflicts, and in all-around mental state that led to that fateful day. I agree with Chris Jericho and Matthew Randazzo when they say that with everything we know now, there wasn't any other way his story could have ended other than in tragedy. Sandra talks a little bit more on Talk is Jericho. She said that Benoit brutalized her sister from the photos the police showed her, and that’s why she doesn’t believe that CTE was solely responsible for what happened.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,036
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 25, 2020 1:45:37 GMT -5
I have a bit of a bone to pick with Chris Jericho, though. He was heavily involved in talking about concussions in wrestling here. So, he's very aware of the risks and what's done to his friends in the industry.
So why would he ever agree to a spot where he gives the Judas Effect elbow right to a defenseless Darby Allin as he's diving outside of the ring? Especially since there's a famous spot where he hit with Benoit with a chair as HE was diving out of the ring when he wasn't protecting himself?
It's just beyond stupid with everything he knows and has had personal experience in.
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Post by Seth Drakin of Monster Crap on Mar 25, 2020 1:46:29 GMT -5
I dont believe CTE was the only reason it happened as it was a combination of things that happened. I do believe CTE did have a major role in his thinking though.
Happy at the end of the doc to see Daniel and Sandra together at the end as they were also innocent victims in this whole nightmare.
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Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
Posts: 7,045
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Post by Shark on Mar 25, 2020 2:21:36 GMT -5
One thing that just left me very confused was when they bring up the WWE Wellness policy. The Ring of Hell author is very dismissive of it and seems to get the last word in about it and effectively calls it a bullshit policy. But then you have Jericho and Malenko, who have no loyalty to WWE, defend the policy and say that it led to changes and was strict. I think the doc wanted us to make up our own minds about it, but it seems to favor the author's viewpoint.
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Post by ben:friendship frog on Mar 25, 2020 3:16:28 GMT -5
I can't add anything about Benoit that hasn't already been said better but I thought Matthew Randazzo (the fifth) came across like a complete bellend.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,843
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 25, 2020 3:18:19 GMT -5
I have a bit of a bone to pick with Chris Jericho, though. He was heavily involved in talking about concussions in wrestling here. So, he's very aware of the risks and what's done to his friends in the industry. So why would he ever agree to a spot where he gives the Judas Effect elbow right to a defenseless Darby Allin as he's diving outside of the ring? Especially since there's a famous spot where he hit with Benoit with a chair as HE was diving out of the ring when he wasn't protecting himself? It's just beyond stupid with everything he knows and has had personal experience in. Pretty sure Chris and Darby rehersed the spot beforehand and everything went fine, they probably knew a way for it to look like Chris hit him but wouldn't, but botches and mistiming happens. I don't think Chris haphazardly agreed to a spot like that, it was just an accident.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,036
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 25, 2020 3:19:52 GMT -5
One thing that just left me very confused was when they bring up the WWE Wellness policy. The Ring of Hell author is very dismissive of it and seems to get the last word in about it and effectively calls it a bullshit policy. But then you have Jericho and Malenko, who have no loyalty to WWE, defend the policy and say that it led to changes and was strict. I think the doc wanted us to make up our own minds about it, but it seems to favor the author's viewpoint. Well, if what Randazzo says is true, and Chris Benoit was passing tests even with all the testosterone and stuff in his system, then clearly were holes in the system. At least in the early stages between Eddie's death and the aftermath of Chris, Nancy, and Daniel's deaths.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,843
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 25, 2020 3:20:29 GMT -5
The documentary was hard to watch, extremely. But the ending was very heartwarming. I hope David of all of them can find solace and peace, because I feel like his life has been nothing but hell and it was completely out of his control and had nothing to do with him. Whether or not he actually attempts wrestling aside, I just hope he's happy, and AEW's a place that actually accepts him and where he can go enjoy what he loved again, and I think that's important too.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,036
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Mar 25, 2020 3:49:43 GMT -5
I can't add anything about Benoit that hasn't already been said better but I thought Matthew Randazzo (the fifth) came across like a complete bellend. His book(Ring of Hell) has a very similar tone to his comments here. It's well-written and well-researched but, it's very clear from the way he writes that he does NOT like wrestling one iota.
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Post by The Lach is very tired on Mar 25, 2020 6:31:30 GMT -5
One thing that just left me very confused was when they bring up the WWE Wellness policy. The Ring of Hell author is very dismissive of it and seems to get the last word in about it and effectively calls it a bullshit policy. But then you have Jericho and Malenko, who have no loyalty to WWE, defend the policy and say that it led to changes and was strict. I think the doc wanted us to make up our own minds about it, but it seems to favor the author's viewpoint. Well, if what Randazzo says is true, and Chris Benoit was passing tests even with all the testosterone and stuff in his system, then clearly were holes in the system. At least in the early stages between Eddie's death and the aftermath of Chris, Nancy, and Daniel's deaths. Benoit was getting his supply via a prescription from a shady doctor who was later imprisoned after pleading guilty to over 150 counts of illegally prescribing drugs. Therefore he technically wouldn't have been in violation of the wellness policy as it stood at the time. That was a really tough watch, I was a huge Benoit fan, his push in late 03/early 04 was what got me back into wrestling after I had drifted away after the end of the Monday night Wars. Having had a fairly recent family tragedy I feel for all of those that were left to deal with the aftermath. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
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Post by Alyce: Old Media Enthusiast on Mar 25, 2020 6:48:15 GMT -5
I know the doc was focused on Benoit, but I'm surprised they didn't make much mention of the Signature Pharmacy scandal outside of the mention of the loopholes in WWE's wellness policy.
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Facetious
King Koopa
ADAM COLE BAYBAY
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Post by Facetious on Mar 25, 2020 7:07:59 GMT -5
One thing that just left me very confused was when they bring up the WWE Wellness policy. The Ring of Hell author is very dismissive of it and seems to get the last word in about it and effectively calls it a bullshit policy. But then you have Jericho and Malenko, who have no loyalty to WWE, defend the policy and say that it led to changes and was strict. I think the doc wanted us to make up our own minds about it, but it seems to favor the author's viewpoint. Well, if what Randazzo says is true, and Chris Benoit was passing tests even with all the testosterone and stuff in his system, then clearly were holes in the system. At least in the early stages between Eddie's death and the aftermath of Chris, Nancy, and Daniel's deaths. Yeah, I don't think WWE took the Wellness Policy seriously until the media was going for the jugular every hour after the murders. Sometime in the past decade it seems they've relaxed on it again.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 25, 2020 7:08:25 GMT -5
Yeah, I remember stories back then about how wrestlers would be able to work through loopholes via pretty easily-gotten prescriptions; by most accounts the wellness policy was pretty much a fig leaf until the Benoit situation really forced them to tighten it up, since they were under such scrutiny.
As for CTE, again, I agree that Benoit was a perfect storm of bad mojo going into this (steroids, obsessive personality, unprocessed grief, etc.), but in my obviously not-informed-enough opinion I'd argue the CTE was likely the main driving factor that took the guy all the way into being violent around his family. I still remember the analysis that said his brain showed the same level of damage and protein buildup as an 80 year old Alzheimer's patient; a lot of people dismissed that because they took it to mean Benoit should have been addled with the same type of dementia an older victim of that disease would have, but that's not how the science behind it works, and when compared with stories of, say, older football players whose primes were in the 80s or thereabouts, there's a lot that fits there.
I've still never read Ring of Hell, but I've always been leery of people dismissing it outright; judging by how studied the author was here, I'm inclined to think he took the project pretty seriously and at least has legitimate reasons for calling out the industry.
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