Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 2, 2020 0:29:42 GMT -5
It's literally all Vince. There was just a story about a month ago about a writer saying Vince would throw almonds at people who fell asleep on his private jet. And from Hogan's book: "If you have to yawn, do it in the bathroom so no one sees you." Points on the yawn but the almond thing is pretty irrelevant to the scenario.It is more of a jokester/jerk thing.Not an anger tantrum thing
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Post by lildude8218 on Apr 2, 2020 0:35:11 GMT -5
from Austin's book:
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 2, 2020 1:08:31 GMT -5
from Austin's book: To be absolutely fair, this is a thing that happens in corporate worlds all the time. There was literally someone in the live thread who lamented that being tired may have gotten them fired from a workplace. A lot of managers and bosses want you active and participating in the workplace because activity shows you care. While you could tie it back to Vince, I think a lot of this stuff is a broader spectrum. Brodie wants everything finite and to his direction. If it doesn't happen, the ones causing problems get punished. Again, it's not the wrestling worlds fault that Vince McMahon does crazy movie villain shit in real life... and I think the gimmick is very much seperate from Vince himself. Anyone calling it a Vince clone thing or saying it's a lousy payoff for Dark Order I think are missing the point and missing how good the segments really are on their own just to akin something back to Vince. If you don't know Vince does this shit, it's just as good even if you have this knowledge. Brodie's just a good worker and performer and he's finally getting his shine, it's all I care about.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Apr 2, 2020 1:14:07 GMT -5
I know I’m just gonna get told I’m wrong but this ain’t it so far.
It feels very indy to me and not in a good way. Taking veiled shots at the big bad Vince with a wink nudge. It’s taken a guy that I thought in a new company could be a for real main eventer and now he’s just doing these skits with overwrought verbiage where I struggle to find the actual point or endgame.
Couple that with his lukewarm at best match with QT. It’s not a good start at all for the guy.
I wish they had given Lance Archer’s presentation to Brodie. Because Archer looks like a threat, a killer, a star. So far, Brodie feels like a knockoff Age of the Fall act.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Apr 2, 2020 2:10:42 GMT -5
First of all, it’s totally a rib on Vince. Totally. Besides the obvious dead give-aways, there’s the way commentary (specifically Colt) was addressing Brodie’s character tonight.
That being said, as many have mentioned, it’s like an actor taking a person as inspiration to grow a character from a template. Like, I doubt Vince has ever chucked a glass at a wall in anger (...) which shows maybe they’re using that template but amplifying it a bit which is a great tactic in building wrestling personas anyway.
There’s also the question as to who’s idea this could be. If I had to guess, it’s probably Brodie’s idea. Maybe Tony. Maybe a collaboration between a few people, who knows. In speaking to people who watch AEW but aren’t savvy to Vince/WWE, they’re digging it, he just comes off like an unhinged cult leader cause..well..yeah. But, as many have mentioned that’s the beauty of the thing: it works towards people in the know and those that don’t.
But I do see the point in detractors that it can easily slip to underwhelming or come off cheesy in the long-run. Personally, I’m enjoying the hell out of it. Little things like decimating the Creeper that took the fall but refraining from attacking the other one, all the while staring a hole into him, comes off really, really well, creepy and menacing. I’d say especially with this character and Brodie jumping into it, it’s fair to give it a “wait & see” approach.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 2:15:26 GMT -5
I liked the first segment but I wasn’t really feeling it this week. I need to know more about what makes them the Dark Order.
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Dub H
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Captain Pixel: the Game Master
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Post by Dub H on Apr 2, 2020 2:35:44 GMT -5
I liked the first segment but I wasn’t really feeling it this week. I need to know more about what makes them the Dark Order. Wow,you cant just ask someone why they are dark.
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deezy
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Post by deezy on Apr 2, 2020 2:37:55 GMT -5
With all the hype with bringing Brodie Lee in and now he'll finally have his chance to shine, They bring him in as Vince 2.0 (for now).
I was never big on Lee in the WWE and nothing has changed my mind about him in AEW so far. And if someone told me that one of the companies would start taking petty jabs at the other I would of put all my money on WWE doing that because, they can be petty as hell. But no, Its AEW.
I haven't been into the dark order and since Lee has arrived it's gotten worse. Hopefully they'll ease up on the Vince stuff going forward.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 2, 2020 2:39:02 GMT -5
I know I’m just gonna get told I’m wrong but this ain’t it so far. It feels very indy to me and not in a good way. Taking veiled shots at the big bad Vince with a wink nudge. It’s taken a guy that I thought in a new company could be a for real main eventer and now he’s just doing these skits with overwrought verbiage where I struggle to find the actual point or endgame. Couple that with his lukewarm at best match with QT. It’s not a good start at all for the guy. I wish they had given Lance Archer’s presentation to Brodie. Because Archer looks like a threat, a killer, a star. So far, Brodie feels like a knockoff Age of the Fall act. Is it really taking shots at Vince or is it taking the mannerisms he has been reported to do and actually doing something with it? Using it to help make a crazy tyrannical overlord, I don't see anything wrong with that whatsoever. Again, the segments are made to the point where if you didn't know Vince did this shit he just looks like a controlling bastard which is the entire point. As for not looking badass enough or not enough like a star he's had one match which I thought showcased him well. Obviously the end game here is a feud with SCU but it's hard to do that if SCU is in lockdown in California. So they're trying to do the best that they can The Tournament is clearly set up for Archer to get a run, Moxley is gonna be busy with Hager for at least two weeks. The best thing they can do right now is build up his character with the vignettes and maybe give him some easy matches. You could always give him a match with Omega or something, a mini feud like that would rule. But it's not so much Brodie's fault or anyone's fault really right now if storyline momentum is a bit wonky at the moment. I think they're making due best with what they can and I'm sure Brodie will be fine, it'll all be about establishing his first program if Daniel's is gonna be out like a month at most depending on how long the Lockdowns last for travel and such.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 2, 2020 2:42:25 GMT -5
With all the hype with bringing Brodie Lee in and now he'll finally have his chance to shine, They bring him in as Vince 2.0 (for now). I was never big on Lee in the WWE and nothing has changed my mind about him in AEW so far. And if someone told me that one of the companies would start taking petty jabs at the other I would of put all my money on WWE doing that because, they can be petty as hell. But no, Its AEW.I haven't been into the dark order and since Lee has arrived it's gotten worse. Hopefully they'll ease up on the Vince stuff going forward. The jabs are barely existent is the thing. No names are mentioned, and no casual viewer is going to know it's a shot at Vince, hell, it's supposed to be worked in as a POSITIVE for Brodie's character as a heel being this controlling overloard. Again why is it wrestlings fault tat Vince is actually like this? If you can take some crazy shit your boss has done and work it into a character that you yourself can make work as its OWN THING, why the hell wouldn't you do it? Brodie's obviously doing it that way, and for many it's working. AEW has I'm pretty sure never mentioned WWE on their programming or said something negative about them. WWE meanwhile called them a Pissant Company at the Hall of Fame last year and even mentioned them by name on a RAW, it's not really comparable to say what AEW is doing right now with Brodie is anything close to what WWE has even done if we're talking "petty jabs".
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Apr 2, 2020 2:46:59 GMT -5
With all the hype with bringing Brodie Lee in and now he'll finally have his chance to shine, They bring him in as Vince 2.0 (for now). I was never big on Lee in the WWE and nothing has changed my mind about him in AEW so far. And if someone told me that one of the companies would start taking petty jabs at the other I would of put all my money on WWE doing that because, they can be petty as hell. But no, Its AEW.I haven't been into the dark order and since Lee has arrived it's gotten worse. Hopefully they'll ease up on the Vince stuff going forward. The jabs are barely existent is the thing. No names are mentioned, and no casual viewer is going to know it's a shot at Vince, hell, it's supposed to be worked in as a POSITIVE for Brodie's character as a heel being this controlling overloard. Again why is it wrestlings fault tat Vince is actually like this? If you can take some crazy shit your boss has done and work it into a character that you yourself can make work as its OWN THING, why the hell wouldn't you do it? Brodie's obviously doing it that way, and for many it's working. AEW has I'm pretty sure never mentioned WWE on their programming or said something negative about them. WWE meanwhile called them a Pissant Company at the Hall of Fame last year and even mentioned them by name on a RAW, it's not really comparable to say what AEW is doing right now with Brodie is anything close to what WWE has even done if we're talking "petty jabs". Did you miss Cody destroying a Triple H throne. Brodie in his first promo talking about an old man that didn’t believe in him. Cody taking shots at Punishment Martinez doing a cross rhodes type move on NXT. Jericho talking about WWE having bad creative in the first inner circle promo and so on.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 2, 2020 2:50:38 GMT -5
The jabs are barely existent is the thing. No names are mentioned, and no casual viewer is going to know it's a shot at Vince, hell, it's supposed to be worked in as a POSITIVE for Brodie's character as a heel being this controlling overloard. Again why is it wrestlings fault tat Vince is actually like this? If you can take some crazy shit your boss has done and work it into a character that you yourself can make work as its OWN THING, why the hell wouldn't you do it? Brodie's obviously doing it that way, and for many it's working. AEW has I'm pretty sure never mentioned WWE on their programming or said something negative about them. WWE meanwhile called them a Pissant Company at the Hall of Fame last year and even mentioned them by name on a RAW, it's not really comparable to say what AEW is doing right now with Brodie is anything close to what WWE has even done if we're talking "petty jabs". Did you miss Cody destroying a Triple H throne. Brodie in his first promo talking about an old man that didn’t believe in him. Cody taking shots at Punishment Martinez doing a cross rhodes type move on NXT. Jericho talking about WWE having bad creative in the first inner circle promo and so on. WWE was never mentioned by name, nor people by name in any of those segments Even still nothing has been incredibly serious or egregious, Cody even said the Throne thing wasn't about WWE and if he really wanted to he probably would have said so. Also when it comes to WWE forgive me if I don't really have any sympathy for them and think that every now and again they deserve a potshot for the shit they've done and continue to do. It's nowhere near the level of WCW or even the lengths TNA went to, I really don't see the issue. It's always been a thing in wrestling.
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Post by eJm on Apr 2, 2020 3:59:04 GMT -5
Honestly, all this debate about whether it’s referencing Vince a lot doesn’t make me go “Man, AEW’s just taking shots at him” as much as really examining it and going “Holy shit, this behavior is actually f***ed up in so many ways”.
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Post by KofiMania on Apr 2, 2020 5:10:38 GMT -5
Did you miss Cody destroying a Triple H throne. Brodie in his first promo talking about an old man that didn’t believe in him. Cody taking shots at Punishment Martinez doing a cross rhodes type move on NXT. Jericho talking about WWE having bad creative in the first inner circle promo and so on. WWE was never mentioned by name, nor people by name in any of those segments Even still nothing has been incredibly serious or egregious, Cody even said the Throne thing wasn't about WWE and if he really wanted to he probably would have said so. Also when it comes to WWE forgive me if I don't really have any sympathy for them and think that every now and again they deserve a potshot for the shit they've done and continue to do. It's nowhere near the level of WCW or even the lengths TNA went to, I really don't see the issue. It's always been a thing in wrestling. They’re not yet at TNA levels but they’re halfway there. I was excited for Brodie and was disappointed he was being stuck with the Dark Order. And now I’m even more disappointed that his character is basically taking shots at Vince, either with a direct reference (the old man comment), or the veiled shots (sneezing, yawning, eating before others, throwing tantrums, wearing similar style suits, call me Mr. Brodie). Not to mention the Sister Abigail setup to his finish. He finally got out of WWE, why not just show you can be a main event talent without all the shots?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2020 5:30:26 GMT -5
Is there a purpose to this besides "LOL he's obviously mocking Vince!"?
Like, what's the end game here...? How does it fit into the storylines, what's the payoff etc?
AEW really need to lay off the pot shots. Stuff like this can make them look incredibly bush league.
Look at TNA. Every guy they signed from WWE cut THAT promo and it all just came across as incredibly lame.
You have Brodie Lee. Make him a deranged killer cult leader and stop trying to get WWEs attention man.
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Post by eJm on Apr 2, 2020 6:08:40 GMT -5
For as much as I don't really want them to go in the direction they are...on the flip side, it's not like he's calling anyone "Bruce" or "Paul" or bringing out members called "Satin" and beating up people called "Phil Brooks" is it?
And putting aside the fact you could argue there's a lot of psychotic tendencies in Vince's stories over the years which is similar to cult leaders in history...they're taking shots at Vince. You're really expecting me to be all "Oh no, poor guy" concerning him? I'll just get out my world's smallest violin for the billionaire with a history of exploiting his workers.
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Post by KofiMania on Apr 2, 2020 6:23:23 GMT -5
For as much as I don't really want them to go in the direction they are...on the flip side, it's not like he's calling anyone "Bruce" or "Paul" or bringing out members called "Satin" and beating up people called "Phil Brooks" is it? And putting aside the fact you could argue there's a lot of psychotic tendencies in Vince's stories over the years which is similar to cult leaders in history...they're taking shots at Vince. You're really expecting me to be all "Oh no, poor guy" concerning him? I'll just get out my world's smallest violin for the billionaire with a history of exploiting his workers. Who is saying to feel bad for Vince? He’s probably never seen a minute of Dynamite. The point is it makes the wrestler/product look minor league to keep making references to Vince/WWE. As to him not saying Bruce or Paul, sure he hasn’t gone full TNA yet but that doesn’t make it good to go half-TNA with it. I’m big on Brodie and he can stand on his own merit, he doesn’t need the digs.
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Post by Yamashita Enforcement Division on Apr 2, 2020 6:26:45 GMT -5
Is there a purpose to this besides "LOL he's obviously mocking Vince!"? Like, what's the end game here...? How does it fit into the storylines, what's the payoff etc? They have a heel who is a psychopath running a corporate cult out of the dark order. He's getting a good chance to do a bunch of character work while people like Lance Archer have the more ring-work focused build and Matt Hardy is on the other side of the alignment chart. You say 'lol he's obvious mocking Vince' I say he's using Vince as a jumping off point to make a character choice and do something very different from what he was doing in the bad company or even before that. Brodie Lee is targeting his out of touch old men (see Daniels, Christopher or Rhodes, Dustin) who will fight the Dark Order on different fields in order to incorporate the more inside baseball comments he's made, but it's still a faction targeting the weak and the down trodden only now instead of incel/school shooter undertones it's corporate cult overtones.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Apr 2, 2020 6:40:36 GMT -5
"We need a gimmick that's witty at first, but then gets less funny every time you see it".
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 2, 2020 6:50:42 GMT -5
For as much as I don't really want them to go in the direction they are...on the flip side, it's not like he's calling anyone "Bruce" or "Paul" or bringing out members called "Satin" and beating up people called "Phil Brooks" is it? And putting aside the fact you could argue there's a lot of psychotic tendencies in Vince's stories over the years which is similar to cult leaders in history...they're taking shots at Vince. You're really expecting me to be all "Oh no, poor guy" concerning him? I'll just get out my world's smallest violin for the billionaire with a history of exploiting his workers. Who is saying to feel bad for Vince? He’s probably never seen a minute of Dynamite. The point is it makes the wrestler/product look minor league to keep making references to Vince/WWE. As to him not saying Bruce or Paul, sure he hasn’t gone full TNA yet but that doesn’t make it good to go half-TNA with it. I’m big on Brodie and he can stand on his own merit, he doesn’t need the digs. I really feel like people are overreacting to this, not only that I feel like people are overestimating how many casual fans are even going to understand all of the "Mocking Vince"isms that might be happening here. I didn't know about the yawning, I didn't know about really anything but the sneezing. You don't know about this stuff unless you like read books or interviews. Otherwise, Brodie just comes off like a controlling overlord who wants results from his underlings. Also Vince kinda made the dude suffer mentally if you listen to his Talk is Jericho podcast. If the guy wants to take some of the things his former boss did, and mind you, use them positively for his own gimmick as a means to help get the act over, then I say go for it. Like really I think that's what is getting lost here. Brodie isn't using these mannerisms to try and take shots, he's using these mannerisms to try and get himself over as The Exalted One and as someone who demands power and commands his place in the leadership role. It would be one thing if he was shooting all the time or going over a line where it just felt like he didn't want to do something that would produce results and just be a sort of charicature of himself, and we saw how that went with Sandow, not well. My point is, I think what Brodie is doing here is well, and it fits. With how Dark Order was being built up you expected some sort of egomaniacal mastermind and that's what we're getting, and I am curious to see how they continue to expand on it and show how he treats his Order.
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