Backlash 2002 Undertaker winning over Austin the right call?

['Foretold' Joker]

I was just thinking about Hogan's brief title win run in 2002 where he beat HHH and then lost to the Undertaker.

Yet at Backlash the number one contender match was Taker vs Austin yet if Austin won we could have got Hogan vs Austin and maybe not had the debacle where Austin left after as he would be the champion so a match with Brock would have been built properly?

Just theorising.

[Mid-Carder]

Only in hindsight because Austin walked out shortly after. For long-term planning, WWE champion Austin v Brock would have been huge. Even bigger than Brock v Rock was.

[Kyle Butler]

Mar 27, 2020 11:24:59 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

Only in hindsight because Austin walked out shortly after. For long-term planning, WWE champion Austin v Brock would have been huge. Even bigger than Brock v Rock was.

And Austin said he had no problem putting over Brock, just not in a match on Raw with no build

[thechase]

Austin was on the original Vengeance 2002 poster...maybe he'd have won the undisputed title there instead of The Rock?

[Deleted]

Not doing Hogan/Austin when both were in the company at the same time was the biggest missed opportunity ever in wrestling. Build that match up over a few months (or hell a few weeks) and it would have been a huge draw.

[MolotovMocktail]

There had been talk of Hogan/Austin ever since the nWo came in, but supposedly, neither one was willing to do the job, and they were completely at loggerheads. That’s why Rock got Hogan at Mania 18, and Austin ended up with Hall.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Mar 27, 2020 11:35:29 GMT -5 Kyle Butler said:

Mar 27, 2020 11:24:59 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

Only in hindsight because Austin walked out shortly after. For long-term planning, WWE champion Austin v Brock would have been huge. Even bigger than Brock v Rock was.

And Austin said he had no problem putting over Brock, just not in a match on Raw with no build

In my opinion, this has always been horseshit. I don't believe Austin about this for one second.

It doesn't matter that this is astute from a booking perspective for Austin to say with hindsight. I don't believe for a second that Steve f***ing Austin walked out of the entire company for months on end because he wanted to give the hot new thing more of a rub. Months. MONTHS. This is a man who was a main eventer in the Attitude Era, who would actively refuse to work with people he didn't see shit in. An alpha, who survived when the main eventers were basically all sharks including two of the greatest politicians in wrestling history at least. And a man who shockingly, was mainly an upper-midcarder in 2002 with nothing to do, and was a midcarder at best at Mania the year after main eventing the biggest one of all time. And he's walking out for multiple months so he can job even harder later?? No main eventer has been that charitable ever, surely?

[4real]

Thanks for reminding me this match existed. What a bore that was.

[Can you afford to pay me, Gah]

Mar 27, 2020 12:34:05 GMT -5 MolotovMocktail said:

There had been talk of Hogan/Austin ever since the nWo came in, but supposedly, neither one was willing to do the job, and they were completely at loggerheads. That’s why Rock got Hogan at Mania 18, and Austin ended up with Hall.

I'm more interested in ok why was Hogan not willing to job to Austin but was ok with the Rock and same year tapped out to Angle when Hogan red and Yellow NEVER taps out. I found that odd.

[A damn road sign]

Can honestly say I’ve never given that match a second thought since the day it happened.

[The Yes Man]

Mar 27, 2020 14:30:38 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Mar 27, 2020 11:35:29 GMT -5 Kyle Butler said:

And Austin said he had no problem putting over Brock, just not in a match on Raw with no build

In my opinion, this has always been horseshit. I don't believe Austin about this for one second.

It doesn't matter that this is astute from a booking perspective for Austin to say with hindsight. I don't believe for a second that Steve f***ing Austin walked out of the entire company for months on end because he wanted to give the hot new thing more of a rub. Months. MONTHS. This is a man who was a main eventer in the Attitude Era, who would actively refuse to work with people he didn't see shit in. An alpha, who survived when the main eventers were basically all sharks including two of the greatest politicians in wrestling history at least. And a man who shockingly, was mainly an upper-midcarder in 2002 with nothing to do, and was a midcarder at best at Mania the year after main eventing the biggest one of all time. And he's walking out for multiple months so he can job even harder later?? No main eventer has been that charitable ever, surely?

It’s not like Austin was perfectly happy and then suddenly flipped a switch. He’d been pissed off and tired of his booking for months. The fact that they wanted to job him out on free TV was just the straw that broke the camels back.

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

Mar 27, 2020 15:26:52 GMT -5 The Yes Man said:

Mar 27, 2020 14:30:38 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

In my opinion, this has always been horseshit. I don't believe Austin about this for one second.

It doesn't matter that this is astute from a booking perspective for Austin to say with hindsight. I don't believe for a second that Steve f***ing Austin walked out of the entire company for months on end because he wanted to give the hot new thing more of a rub. Months. MONTHS. This is a man who was a main eventer in the Attitude Era, who would actively refuse to work with people he didn't see shit in. An alpha, who survived when the main eventers were basically all sharks including two of the greatest politicians in wrestling history at least. And a man who shockingly, was mainly an upper-midcarder in 2002 with nothing to do, and was a midcarder at best at Mania the year after main eventing the biggest one of all time. And he's walking out for multiple months so he can job even harder later?? No main eventer has been that charitable ever, surely?

It’s not like Austin was perfectly happy and then suddenly flipped a switch. He’d been pissed off and tired of his booking for months. The fact that they wanted to job him out on free TV was just the straw that broke the camels back.

I still don't buy that what he took issue with was was how he was jobbing, and not just jobbing - which he'd refused to other people the company saw big things in, like Triple H.

[Starshine]

I don't know.

But one thing I do know is that match being as boring as it was wasn't the right call.

[cabbageboy]

Austin was done by 2002. I've actually never seen a wrestler lose it quicker than he did. The last thing Austin ever did with any quality to it was the Supermarket Brawl with Booker T. and I think that was in late 2001. His booking wasn't the greatest but what was he doing to justify being pushed at that point? His promos were awful, full of nothing but random lists and "What?" chants. His matches were awful during that era as well. Putting aside this crappy Taker match, his PPV match with Jericho in 2002 sucked. The Hall feud and WM match sucked.

I think one major problem Austin had during this era was that they tried to recapture lightning in a bottle and do Austin vs. Authority Part 2 with Flair in the Vince role. The problem was that everyone respected Flair and he was new to the company. Flair's demands were much more reasonable than Vince's and Austin's problem with Flair was too meta for most people to get (namely that Austin had heat with Flair from WCW, which was backstage politics in a different company nearly a decade earlier). It's a shame they didn't have Austin around for a feud with Bischoff, since everyone knew the history of those two guys (Bischoff fired him from WCW) and it's an easier sell to get fans to hate Bischoff.

[cornettesracket]

Mar 27, 2020 15:26:52 GMT -5 The Yes Man said:

Mar 27, 2020 14:30:38 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

In my opinion, this has always been horseshit. I don't believe Austin about this for one second.

It doesn't matter that this is astute from a booking perspective for Austin to say with hindsight. I don't believe for a second that Steve f***ing Austin walked out of the entire company for months on end because he wanted to give the hot new thing more of a rub. Months. MONTHS. This is a man who was a main eventer in the Attitude Era, who would actively refuse to work with people he didn't see shit in. An alpha, who survived when the main eventers were basically all sharks including two of the greatest politicians in wrestling history at least. And a man who shockingly, was mainly an upper-midcarder in 2002 with nothing to do, and was a midcarder at best at Mania the year after main eventing the biggest one of all time. And he's walking out for multiple months so he can job even harder later?? No main eventer has been that charitable ever, surely?

It’s not like Austin was perfectly happy and then suddenly flipped a switch. He’d been pissed off and tired of his booking for months. The fact that they wanted to job him out on free TV was just the straw that broke the camels back.

Exactly. Austin has said many times that that time both professionally and personal was a mess so the brock thing was the last straw. I still think Austin should have dealt with it much better than he did but that's partially hindsight. I've never understood why wrestlers "take their ball and go home" as it's never worked out better for them in the end.

[romanstylesiii]

The booking around this time made no sense. They wasted the last year of Austin's career because Vince is petty

[cornettesracket]

Mar 27, 2020 16:46:26 GMT -5 cabbageboy said:

Austin was done by 2002. I've actually never seen a wrestler lose it quicker than he did. The last thing Austin ever did with any quality to it was the Supermarket Brawl with Booker T. and I think that was in late 2001. His booking wasn't the greatest but what was he doing to justify being pushed at that point? His promos were awful, full of nothing but random lists and "What?" chants. His matches were awful during that era as well. Putting aside this crappy Taker match, his PPV match with Jericho in 2002 sucked. The Hall feud and WM match sucked.

I think one major problem Austin had during this era was that they tried to recapture lightning in a bottle and do Austin vs. Authority Part 2 with Flair in the Vince role. The problem was that everyone respected Flair and he was new to the company. Flair's demands were much more reasonable than Vince's and Austin's problem with Flair was too meta for most people to get (namely that Austin had heat with Flair from WCW, which was backstage politics in a different company nearly a decade earlier). It's a shame they didn't have Austin around for a feud with Bischoff, since everyone knew the history of those two guys (Bischoff fired him from WCW) and it's an easier sell to get fans to hate Bischoff.

That reminds me of a lumberjack match between booker T and Austin and it was awful and sloppy. 

[cjh]

Mar 27, 2020 15:29:39 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Mar 27, 2020 15:26:52 GMT -5 The Yes Man said:

It’s not like Austin was perfectly happy and then suddenly flipped a switch. He’d been pissed off and tired of his booking for months. The fact that they wanted to job him out on free TV was just the straw that broke the camels back.

I still don't buy that what he took issue with was was how he was jobbing, and not just jobbing - which he'd refused to other people the company saw big things in, like Triple H.

Austin has made it sound like the match itself being on Raw that soon with no build was the last straw for him.  He had just publicly stated in an interview a week or so before that show how "piss poor" and "shitty" (his exact words) the writing had been before WrestleMania 18 and in the two months after it.

[Mid-Carder]

Mar 27, 2020 14:30:38 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

Mar 27, 2020 11:35:29 GMT -5 Kyle Butler said:

And Austin said he had no problem putting over Brock, just not in a match on Raw with no build

In my opinion, this has always been horseshit. I don't believe Austin about this for one second.

It doesn't matter that this is astute from a booking perspective for Austin to say with hindsight. I don't believe for a second that Steve f***ing Austin walked out of the entire company for months on end because he wanted to give the hot new thing more of a rub. Months. MONTHS. This is a man who was a main eventer in the Attitude Era, who would actively refuse to work with people he didn't see shit in. An alpha, who survived when the main eventers were basically all sharks including two of the greatest politicians in wrestling history at least. And a man who shockingly, was mainly an upper-midcarder in 2002 with nothing to do, and was a midcarder at best at Mania the year after main eventing the biggest one of all time. And he's walking out for multiple months so he can job even harder later?? No main eventer has been that charitable ever, surely?

I love Austin but I'm with you on this. He never put anybody over. Creatively I agree that holding off would have been the better idea but the fact is WWE had belief that Lesnar was their next big star and Austin should have jobbed. It may have been the straw that broke the camel's back if he was unhappy but I don't believe either that this is the reason he left.

[Rumble McSkirmish]

The only real wrong calls was letting the match go as long as it did, (Austin and Taker were megastars but by their own admission they never did have good chemistry together) and Ric Flair choosing to wear his red boots with his referee attire (That's a fashion no no if there ever was one.)