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Post by DiBiase is Good on Mar 29, 2020 2:54:12 GMT -5
I might argue that if any other match was to main event WM19 instead, it’s Vince/Hogan. Seeing Hogan main eventing Wrestlemania twice in a row, 15 years after his heyday would have given the collective IWC at the time a stroke. However, both those matches would have killed it in those spots, and I think would be looked back on favourably. Hogan’s 2002/3 run was one of pure joy and was booked so well. He wasn’t able to pull his creative control card and in those 18 months he put over The Rock twice, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar. All of his backstage bullshit from his time in WCW seemed to be forgotten when he was back home in the WWF and the fans loved to see him back. When even the most cynical of smarks seemingly still marked out like kids during his match against The Rock, I don’t think the IWC were that upset by it and most fans agree that match could have main evented. Then when he was getting reactions like his ovation in Montreal, one of the most vocal places in North America, the IWC had to simply hold their hands up and join in the applause. Personally, I wished he had stayed around a little bit longer and had a match at WMXX to round off his career whilst he could still just about move. Maybe put him in the match with Foley and Rock against Evolution. It would have been nice to see him and Flair finally square off at Mania. The mid-00s comebacks against Shawn and Orton were a step too far though and really seemed to turn people against him. (Obviously, he would manage to make himself even more unpopular thanks to certain comments later on)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 3:01:03 GMT -5
I might argue that if any other match was to main event WM19 instead, it’s Vince/Hogan. Seeing Hogan main eventing Wrestlemania twice in a row, 15 years after his heyday would have given the collective IWC at the time a stroke. However, both those matches would have killed it in those spots, and I think would be looked back on favourably. I just watched that match a few months ago and that is one match that had no right to be as good as it was. Hogan and Vince tore the house down at Mania 19.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Mar 29, 2020 4:09:43 GMT -5
It could be that WWE had no idea how Hogan would be received. I know he'd had the ridiculous responses prior, but Mania is usually unpredictable.
Regarding 19, Brock v Angle was absolutely the right decision. Face top star overcomes evil heel to win the world title is classic Mania main event.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Mar 29, 2020 5:44:17 GMT -5
My 2003 memory isn’t that hot but did Angle’s neck issues cause him to not be on TV as much? I don’t immediately recall that much build up to his match. They were straight up gonna have Lesnar win that for real in about 10 seconds and then have Brock defend against Benoit, but Angle said he could probably still go at Mania
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repomark
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Post by repomark on Mar 29, 2020 6:54:39 GMT -5
I think the decision becomes more difficult if everyone knows (or at least suspect) going in (and it is part of the build) that it is going to be Austin’s last match. Then I think it changes everything and makes it a far more difficult decision as there would have been much more emotion for everyone involved (including the audience).
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Mar 29, 2020 8:01:42 GMT -5
Lesnar v Angle was such a hot feud and well built and everybody wanted to see those 2 have a match at the time it was absolutely the right decision to main event despite Kurt’s injury.
Hogan v Rock should have main evented 18 but looking back that’s through hindsight really. For the most part the title match always headlined and HHH had come back from 8 months injured to win the title. The match just wasn’t very good and didn’t have the crowd reaction Rock v Hogan did. I don’t think the fans thought Jericho could beat HHH either.
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Post by Session Moth is over on Mar 29, 2020 8:23:30 GMT -5
Rock was a part timer by that stage and while we didn't know it would be Austin's last match his career was winding down by that stage and this match felt more like a 'let's do it one last time for old times sake' than anything else.
On the other hand Lesnar was becoming a massive star at this stage and back in 2002/03 Angle had claims to being the very best in the world so there was no question on anyones mind which match was bigger back then. I don't even remember anyone ever saying that Rock/Austin should have been the main event back then.
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thehottag
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Post by thehottag on Mar 29, 2020 9:18:21 GMT -5
Different scenarios. Rock/Austin 3 was definitely a big deal, but despite Rock's new (and brilliant) Hollywood persona, it was a match that had been presented before. Hogan vs Rock was a matchup between two legends from two different eras that hadn't been in the same company until that point.
In boxing terms, let's imagine we get to watch Ali vs Tyson on the same card as Joshua vs Fury. Obviously the title match between the current champ & challenger should be treated as a big deal, but the dream match should definitely headline.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Mar 29, 2020 9:49:09 GMT -5
it's a hindsight thing. on paper the world title match should have gone on last. but for some reason WWE decided that a match between the man synonymous with wrestling and the man who transcended the business in a way nobody else ever has needed an "oh yeah this is also happening" promotion strategy. for that matter, WWE's use of Hogan during that period was perplexing. prior to that match his return was as a heel (who the audience who never watched WCW had no real reason to boo) and who was basically being presented as "just another guy on the roster". it really didn't help that Triple H was basically dead in the water as a face and everyone rightly saw the feud as Trips just burying a guy who was flat out more popular and talented than he was.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Mar 29, 2020 9:58:32 GMT -5
Seeing Hogan main eventing Wrestlemania twice in a row, 15 years after his heyday would have given the collective IWC at the time a stroke. However, both those matches would have killed it in those spots, and I think would be looked back on favourably. Hogan’s 2002/3 run was one of pure joy and was booked so well. He wasn’t able to pull his creative control card and in those 18 months he put over The Rock twice, The Undertaker, Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar. All of his backstage bullshit from his time in WCW seemed to be forgotten when he was back home in the WWF and the fans loved to see him back. When even the most cynical of smarks seemingly still marked out like kids during his match against The Rock, I don’t think the IWC were that upset by it and most fans agree that match could have main evented. Then when he was getting reactions like his ovation in Montreal, one of the most vocal places in North America, the IWC had to simply hold their hands up and join in the applause. Personally, I wished he had stayed around a little bit longer and had a match at WMXX to round off his career whilst he could still just about move. Maybe put him in the match with Foley and Rock against Evolution. It would have been nice to see him and Flair finally square off at Mania. The mid-00s comebacks against Shawn and Orton were a step too far though and really seemed to turn people against him. (Obviously, he would manage to make himself even more unpopular thanks to certain comments later on) Shawn Michaels did more to kill Hogan's mystique than anyone before or since IMO. I mean sure, Hogan won the match but look at the cost.
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Post by cornettesracket on Mar 29, 2020 10:04:55 GMT -5
My 2003 memory isn’t that hot but did Angle’s neck issues cause him to not be on TV as much? I don’t immediately recall that much build up to his match. Yea it did They had a match between Brock and Angle for the title on SD to play up Kurt might not make it to WM and they did a double switch where Kurt's brother subbed in for him and when Brock noticed Kurt got a quick win if my memory serves me correctly Benoit was the backup if angle couldn't go wasn't he ? It's probably better we as fans didn't know how utterly f***ed Kurts neck was because it would have made it very uncomfortable.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Mar 29, 2020 10:43:27 GMT -5
Triple h going on last over Hogan and the Rock was pure ego. It was Hogan's first Wrestlemania since the early 90's and the Rock was a megastar. Title or no title, it was a bigger matchup than anything the wwf could have put together and that's not hindsight, that's a no brainer back then.
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Post by flakeymcgill on Mar 29, 2020 10:59:26 GMT -5
Jericho/HHH at WM18 had less momentum than a dehydrated steam locomotive. Even if Hogan vs Rock didn't happen that main event would have been one of the flattest endings to any Wrestlemania in modern times.
The argument was that the title match should close the show, but it was so obvious which match was the attraction. Like at WM11, the attraction match should have closed the show.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Mar 29, 2020 11:14:25 GMT -5
Austin and Rock had wrestled a million times by then. Rock/Hogan was the biggest match since Hogan/Warrior.
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Post by mauled on Mar 29, 2020 11:45:44 GMT -5
I might argue that if any other match was to main event WM19 instead, it’s Vince/Hogan. Seeing Hogan main eventing Wrestlemania twice in a row, 15 years after his heyday would have given the collective IWC at the time a stroke. However, both those matches would have killed it in those spots, and I think would be looked back on favourably. The match wasn't bad but didn't all the promo material with Vince/Hogan not sell the show as well. I remember the DVD had them huge on it, with all the other guys on the back
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Post by mauled on Mar 29, 2020 11:48:08 GMT -5
Jericho/HHH at WM18 had less momentum than a dehydrated steam locomotive. Even if Hogan vs Rock didn't happen that main event would have been one of the flattest endings to any Wrestlemania in modern times. The argument was that the title match should close the show, but it was so obvious which match was the attraction. Like at WM11, the attraction match should have closed the show. It's an ironic statement given that at WM8 then at Summerslam 92 the Title match in both PPV's was in the middle. Tbh Trips ego at 18 was bad but that wasn't nothing to 19 though. Cause you know Bookers kind don't make good Champions wink wink 🧐😠
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Jake, The Jake, Jake
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Post by Jake, The Jake, Jake on Mar 29, 2020 12:08:05 GMT -5
I’m actually on Team “Put The Title Match On Last, Regardless,” so I don’t have a problem with either one.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on Mar 29, 2020 13:49:45 GMT -5
It wasn't a good feud. Triple H didn't want them to have Steph and Jericho romantically involved, which would have probably made the feud hit harder, but I get that not everyone is comfortable doing that kind of thing. Owen, for instance, turned down having a Debra tryst storyline feud with Jarrett, not being cool with that. That said, if you're not going to go with it, then don't involve Stephanie in the feud so much, just have her in Jericho's corner. I get that it was to separate the face Triple H from heel Steph, and to maybe have Jericho lose the title in a way that saves face for him, but it backfired in a big way if that was the intended goal. Asking Stephanie to stay off TV and stay out of storylines in WWE is never going to happen. No matter how many fans she has driven away and continues to drive away from WWE she will be a front and center piece of their show until she is no longer physically capable. No matter how many stipulations she loses that says she must "leave forever", just like herpes she will inevitably be back to the delight of absolutely nobody but herself, her daddy and HHH.
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bob
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Post by bob on Mar 30, 2020 17:51:20 GMT -5
The match sucked
The champion, Jericho was a 4th wheel in the feud behind Steph, HHH, and their dog
This also had no business headlining Wrestlemania 18 over Rock vs Hogan
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Wardlow on Wardlow 54
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Post by Wardlow on Wardlow 54 on Mar 30, 2020 18:24:43 GMT -5
Yea it did They had a match between Brock and Angle for the title on SD to play up Kurt might not make it to WM and they did a double switch where Kurt's brother subbed in for him and when Brock noticed Kurt got a quick win if my memory serves me correctly Benoit was the backup if angle couldn't go wasn't he ? It's probably better we as fans didn't know how utterly f***ed Kurts neck was because it would have made it very uncomfortable. And then it wasn't even Kurt who almost died in that match...
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