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Post by Viking Hall on Apr 16, 2020 3:56:46 GMT -5
If there's another Tony Khan out there who's been waiting for the time to get into the Wrasslin' biz they've now basically got a ready made roster of fired up potential stars to pick from. Wishful thinking but it'd make a nice Fantasy Booker at least. No offence to any of the people that got let go yesterday but If I was a billionaire looking to start a wrestling company I really don’t think anyone who came on the market yesterday would be anywhere near my radar Looking at who was a free agent pre-Covid virtually all of the wrestlers released bar a couple of the NXT kids have more name value than just about any one out there and at this time, probably more to prove too. Someone like Rusev easily has the tools to walk into the main event scene of any company in the world right now.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 16, 2020 3:58:52 GMT -5
Also, just a question that has been on my mind since all this kicked off... Putting aside the fact they assured their shareholders they can ride out the storm with it, if this isn’t the time to use a portion of that $500m, at a time when you were still trying to make all of the $1bn a year from your TV deals with the live shows and were legally allowed to in Florida...when would be the time? What’s the scenario that makes more sense to use money saved for occasions that are dire than right now? If you think it sounds bad now, wait until some sort of sports league low-to-no interest bailout loan comes sweeping in as a result of the panel Vince himself is sitting on, and WWE gets covernment support money to help sustain themselves after culling a bunch of jobs, while still collecting on their big TV contracts.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 16, 2020 4:05:14 GMT -5
If there's another Tony Khan out there who's been waiting for the time to get into the Wrasslin' biz they've now basically got a ready made roster of fired up potential stars to pick from. Wishful thinking but it'd make a nice Fantasy Booker at least. No offence to any of the people that got let go yesterday but If I was a billionaire looking to start a wrestling company I really don’t think anyone who came on the market yesterday would be anywhere near my radar Rusev is absolutely going to be on every wrestling company with a pulses radar of that whole crop released yesterday.
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Post by Prince Petty on Apr 16, 2020 4:10:02 GMT -5
It's been said, but this is a real monkey's paw; the roster is/was too bloated, they'd signed some people for the same of denying others rather than having a use in mind themselves, and they needed badly to streamline. Doing it now, when other employment options are slim and the company just had good special exemption news and should have the money to cover this, is what makes it bad. The thing is, a lot of the guys who were let go weren't even being used anyway, so it doesn't improve the lot of anyone - those fired are looking for jobs, those still with the company are likely to stay in exactly the same positions they were already in. Rusev is really the only one who had been on TV a lot, and they'd wasted him in dead end angles anyway. So all the WWE did was satisfy the worst of both worlds.
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Post by boliv84 on Apr 16, 2020 4:18:22 GMT -5
what gets me is how shameless they are to just let these people go during a pandemic. in a year when this has gone down, we have a vaccine, and life is normal again, yeah okay.. but during a global crisis to just be like "hey guys, we're a family, and you're essential to our company... but not essential enough. good luck! see you in a year maybe!" is just sickening. It's also especially shameless because the company is even in a relatively comfortable situation. Their by far biggest income source is TV and that is unchanged. Tickets are nowadays for WWE a comparably small revenue source and of course holding events in arenas is also a cost factor. Wrestlenomics has an overview here wrestlenomics.wordpress.com/2020/03/31/wwe-covid-19-financial-risk-assessment/ and by their prediction WWE is still very profitable. Just less profitable than they projected before Covid-19, which was for them probably enough of a shareholder value reason. Of course a factor may also be that competition will now not even be able to use the released talents soon, all the worse for the talents as you mention.
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Post by Viking Hall on Apr 16, 2020 4:25:15 GMT -5
what gets me is how shameless they are to just let these people go during a pandemic. in a year when this has gone down, we have a vaccine, and life is normal again, yeah okay.. but during a global crisis to just be like "hey guys, we're a family, and you're essential to our company... but not essential enough. good luck! see you in a year maybe!" is just sickening. It's also especially shameless because the company is even in a relatively comfortable situation. Their by far biggest income source is TV and that is unchanged. Tickets are nowadays for WWE a comparably small revenue source and of course holding events in arenas is also a cost factor. Wrestlenomics has an overview here wrestlenomics.wordpress.com/2020/03/31/wwe-covid-19-financial-risk-assessment/ and by their prediction WWE is still very profitable. Just less profitable than they projected before Covid-19, which was for them probably enough of a shareholder value reason. Of course a factor may also be that competition will now not even be able to use the released talents soon, all the worse for the talents as you mention. I would imagine they've probably seen a jump in Network subscriptions too what with everyone being at home which is obviously another main income source for them these days.
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Post by Starshine on Apr 16, 2020 4:36:17 GMT -5
It's also especially shameless because the company is even in a relatively comfortable situation. Their by far biggest income source is TV and that is unchanged. Tickets are nowadays for WWE a comparably small revenue source and of course holding events in arenas is also a cost factor. Wrestlenomics has an overview here wrestlenomics.wordpress.com/2020/03/31/wwe-covid-19-financial-risk-assessment/ and by their prediction WWE is still very profitable. Just less profitable than they projected before Covid-19, which was for them probably enough of a shareholder value reason. Of course a factor may also be that competition will now not even be able to use the released talents soon, all the worse for the talents as you mention. I would imagine they've probably seen a jump in Network subscriptions too what with everyone being at home which is obviously another main income source for them these days. Considering ratings are down now, and money's tighter for most, I have trouble assuming that's the case. I mean, it's possible. But even then, they weren't happy with their subscriptions pre-COVID, to the point they were looking to sell off their content.
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dpg
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,476
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Post by dpg on Apr 16, 2020 4:49:33 GMT -5
I would imagine they've probably seen a jump in Network subscriptions too what with everyone being at home which is obviously another main income source for them these days. Considering ratings are down now, and money's tighter for most, I have trouble assuming that's the case. I mean, it's possible. But even then, they weren't happy with their subscriptions pre-COVID, to the point they were looking to sell off their content. Money is tight for many, network might be first to go for them . I still have Impact plus, but I'm ok financially.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Apr 16, 2020 4:52:11 GMT -5
Also, just a question that has been on my mind since all this kicked off... Putting aside the fact they assured their shareholders they can ride out the storm with it, if this isn’t the time to use a portion of that $500m, at a time when you were still trying to make all of the $1bn a year from your TV deals with the live shows and were legally allowed to in Florida...when would be the time? What’s the scenario that makes more sense to use money saved for occasions that are dire than right now? I'd bet a shiny nickel that's the "McMahon Emergency Fund", only to be used when the fortunes of the family itself are in danger.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Apr 16, 2020 4:56:00 GMT -5
If there's another Tony Khan out there who's been waiting for the time to get into the Wrasslin' biz they've now basically got a ready made roster of fired up potential stars to pick from. Wishful thinking but it'd make a nice Fantasy Booker at least. No offence to any of the people that got let go yesterday but If I was a billionaire looking to start a wrestling company I really don’t think anyone who came on the market yesterday would be anywhere near my radar I disagree. Rusev is a guy that everyone is going to be looking at, hell he be in everyone's Main Event across the board more than likely. If there was another Billionaire wanting to do a Tony Khan. Yes this these guys would drawn interest because the more names or faces fans are familiar with, the more attention you get at the start. The Good Brothers Top Tag Team out of japan, came in and left in a top role with the OC. Why wouldn't that drew interest? A lot of the guys release have potential of becoming proving you wrong and become solid hands and bigger than what the WWE gave them. EC3 was given zero chance but when he was signed, he was a hot free agent. Plus all the producers/agents that have years of experience is a great value. David Finlay was the guy all the woman praise for helping them become great. If you have women's wrestling, he would be a must. Mike Chioda head referee would be nice to have someone who can teach younger referee's. There are value is a lot of them. Not all Main Event Talent but some good pick ups to fill the roster with names fans would know. Which can help draw interest.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 16, 2020 4:58:45 GMT -5
WWE Network is going to be a hard thing to keep on for a lot of households if money is getting tighter; it's just not a service that's going to be able to keep you good through a month of being stuck at home. Something like Netflix can sustain you until the day you die, but even most die-hard wrestling fans would have trouble watching wrestling for days on end while cooped up inside, and for families where not everyone is deep into wrestling, even worse. Even if WWE had a strong product right now it's just not something that's going to be a priority right now for the people who have to choose which services they can even keep on while times are tough.
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dpg
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,476
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Post by dpg on Apr 16, 2020 5:19:51 GMT -5
WWE Network is going to be a hard thing to keep on for a lot of households if money is getting tighter; it's just not a service that's going to be able to keep you good through a month of being stuck at home. Something like Netflix can sustain you until the day you die, but even most die-hard wrestling fans would have trouble watching wrestling for days on end while cooped up inside, and for families where not everyone is deep into wrestling, even worse. Even if WWE had a strong product right now it's just not something that's going to be a priority right now for the people who have to choose which services they can even keep on while times are tough. Yup. Hard to justify keeping a niche thing like the network if times are tough.
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Post by papagiorgio on Apr 16, 2020 5:23:55 GMT -5
Also, just a question that has been on my mind since all this kicked off... Putting aside the fact they assured their shareholders they can ride out the storm with it, if this isn’t the time to use a portion of that $500m, at a time when you were still trying to make all of the $1bn a year from your TV deals with the live shows and were legally allowed to in Florida...when would be the time? What’s the scenario that makes more sense to use money saved for occasions that are dire than right now? If you think it sounds bad now, wait until some sort of sports league low-to-no interest bailout loan comes sweeping in as a result of the panel Vince himself is sitting on, and WWE gets covernment support money to help sustain themselves after culling a bunch of jobs, while still collecting on their big TV contracts. We are already seeing companies like the Kennedy Center and the airlines that got part of that 2 trillion dollar stimulus package fire, furlough, and cut salaries of people. I was a bit surprised to see Zack Ryder (thought he'd be there forever) and the Good Brothers (used in the Undertaker story line for Mania) released, but most of those wrestlers were barely being used and even in some cases have acted like they've wanted to be released. Most businesses are making cuts out there now. The longer this country remains in shutdown or near shutdown mode, the more job losses we can expect for the country (and world) as a whole. WWE, restaurants, and other companies that are still open in some regards are making a fraction of the money they were making before. WWE also has to answer to stockholders. I'm curious if those wrestlers that had a downside in their contract will still receive that money.
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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Apr 16, 2020 5:24:04 GMT -5
even though I'm in most of the time as much as I love the archive of the WWE Network, if I'm paying for a streaming service would rather go for film/TV ones at this time
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,725
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Post by nisidhe on Apr 16, 2020 5:25:36 GMT -5
WWE Network is going to be a hard thing to keep on for a lot of households if money is getting tighter; it's just not a service that's going to be able to keep you good through a month of being stuck at home. Something like Netflix can sustain you until the day you die, but even most die-hard wrestling fans would have trouble watching wrestling for days on end while cooped up inside, and for families where not everyone is deep into wrestling, even worse. Even if WWE had a strong product right now it's just not something that's going to be a priority right now for the people who have to choose which services they can even keep on while times are tough. After this. many subscribers are already pulling the plug on their subscriptions out of sheer disgust alone. It's been hard enough to watch WWE TV with the loopholes Vince and co. have pushed convoys through to force "back to normal", but I suspect this is the straw that breaks the camel's back. After this, WWE is in a death spiral, I think. The larger entertainment world won't touch them after this is all over. Anyone working the indies and was looking to jump to WWE is probably saying, "Nah, I'm good." The networks should get a piece of this anger, as well: enough, I would reckon, for them at least to through WWE onto a secondary channel or, if things get really bad, to invoke other penalties or even end the deal prematurely. Then, there's the Saudi government wanting its "biggest shows ever". And that assumes the crisis is over and forgotten before November. All of this is on Vince McMahon's head.
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Post by sfvega on Apr 16, 2020 5:30:34 GMT -5
Had been working on this comment when the thread got closed: For sure, it's an awful way to go about doing things and certainly something that he should be criticised for on moral and humane grounds. From a business point of view though, he has a fiduciary responsibility to his shareholders to preserve their stock price and would have to answer to them on why he didnt make the moves he made, had he not made them. We can argue, and rightly criticise it, but there is a line between what is the right thing to do morally, and what is the right thing to do financially, and Vince (likely under advice and pressure from various lawyers and accountants) chose the financial one. In doing so, he's shown some financial responsibility, at the absolute cost of the humane thing to do. It is absolutely fair to criticise for that, but we also have to remember he has corporate responsibilities that may suck, but are still there. I'm not sure we should have expected anything else from him though. It's always about the money. Where was fiduciary responsibility when they were trying to talk people into big contract extensions right on the spot and overpaying for people they had no intention of using, to the point it caused friction in the top corporate brass and led to two by-all-reports-successful officers leaving the company? Vince's control freak impulses and possessive nature sure did take priority over fiduciary responsibility when they decided to recklessly and excessively overspend for no good reason. Nah, this is only about keeping shareholders happy insofar as he's trying to keep them from selling off when they bring back bad news next week, because he doesn't want his own personal fortune to take a big hit. Also, I can't f*** with the idea of "It's not the moral thing to do but it is the financially responsible thing to do and we have to keep that in mind". f*** shareholders right now. f*** the weird greedy billionaire who decided his possessive war for the whole of professional wrestling was finally inconvenient to him and has now left a bunch of people hanging in the lurch at the worst possible moment to be jobless in their lifetimes. We know the reasons this happened and corporate responsibilities are an excuse to shield greed and inhumanity from the backlash they rightfully deserve, tabling the idea this had to be done to serve shareholders is just bringing a stinkbomb to the dinner table and calling it atmosphere. Even if you concede there's reasons to criticize, the idea there was a good reason to not do the right thing is crap. I also saw the reply to late to retort. And I agree wholeheartedly with you. It isn't about Vince having to do what is morally right or he would never fire any hard, competent worker. But it's overarching and abhorrent greed which is really f***in bad optics rn. You can't put 18.5 mil in a PAC and then fire a combined amount of people who would make less than a quarter of that for the rest of the year. My points about Vince in the XFL and Fox contract was that he had JUST saved hundreds of millions of dollars twice over, only to turn around and do his impression of the Monopoly man with his pockets turned inside out. Vince is akin to the car manufacturer CEOs who flew in jets to ask for federal bailouts. Vince is WCW; overpaying guys to stay at home or do very little just so the competition doesn't have them. Financially responsible like Eric Bischoff. Vince has tons of money. He sold a ton of stock at a good time to get out to fund a football league that many thought was a hilariously bad investment and ultimately proved to be so. Not only that, but he still has a ton of that money (enough to fund the league for 3 seasons and didn't even have to fund it for half of 1.) AND he just skipped out on the tab for it, leaving even smaller fish unemployed. It's not just moral outrage, it's also a series of bad business decisions by a ridiculously wealthy guy who has abandoned his financial commitments in a way that should be and probably is illegal. And he did it because he wants to hoard his wealth like any other capitalist parasite, not because he's just a guy trying to make ends meet with a group of hungry shareholders breathing down his neck. Also, pretty hilarious to call a billionaire who just left people like photographers he owed $1000 to showing "financial responsiblity." No, that's what he just skipped out on. We all know Vince doesn't really answer to anyone, he just wants to do Scrooge McDuck style laps in gold coins and play with his real life wrestling action figures. It doesn't really make sense to argue otherwise in some devil's advocate exercise.
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Post by raymondcky18 on Apr 16, 2020 5:47:38 GMT -5
The thing that angers me is that a lot of these wrestlers were the unhappy ones that wanted out but were refused but now they can’t work anywhere the wwe let them go?
Would the wrestlers get a pay off to break there contact?
I fear for the NXT UK crew
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 16, 2020 5:47:59 GMT -5
If you think it sounds bad now, wait until some sort of sports league low-to-no interest bailout loan comes sweeping in as a result of the panel Vince himself is sitting on, and WWE gets covernment support money to help sustain themselves after culling a bunch of jobs, while still collecting on their big TV contracts. We are already seeing companies like the Kennedy Center and the airlines that got part of that 2 trillion dollar stimulus package fire, furlough, and cut salaries of people. I was a bit surprised to see Zack Ryder (thought he'd be there forever) and the Good Brothers (used in the Undertaker story line for Mania) released, but most of those wrestlers were barely being used and even in some cases have acted like they've wanted to be released. Most businesses are making cuts out there now. The longer this country remains in shutdown or near shutdown mode, the more job losses we can expect for the country (and world) as a whole. WWE, restaurants, and other companies that are still open in some regards are making a fraction of the money they were making before. WWE also has to answer to stockholders. I'm curious if those wrestlers that had a downside in their contract will still receive that money. WWE is not making "a fraction" of money right now. It's making less, sure, but the company is uplifted by well over half a billion a year in TV deals alone and whose operational costs are also going down significantly to run the shows they're still running. Putting WWE on the same scale and and problem as restaurants is comical. And yeah,there's people who wanted to be let go. WWE said "No we're keeping you to this contract you can't break, but we'll keep paying you" then when it became inconvenient for tehm, broke contrats en masse and kicked people out during a time I can guaran-damn-tee you nobody was asking for a chance out of their contract, because they can't get another job. Nobody can.
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Post by Brian Suntan on Apr 16, 2020 5:53:04 GMT -5
Last year the WWE ran an average of about 40 events a month, for the forseeable future (six months if not longer) they'll be running what, 15?
I get it would be nice if rich people just accepted they were going to make less money, but it also does follow that less events = less wrestlers and producers.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Apr 16, 2020 6:08:09 GMT -5
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