|
Post by BRAINFADE on Apr 22, 2020 16:05:41 GMT -5
Really enjoyed the first two episodes. As a kid growing up in the UK in the 90s, MJ and the Bulls were pretty much as big as the NBA got over here, but it was never massively covered, so most of this stuff is brand new to me. Is the 97-98 season the one where Rodman blew off practice to work an episode of Nitro? Yup During the NBA finals, he left before Game 4 to do the match with Hogan Jesus, it was during the Finals?? They surely have to be covering this in the series right?
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 22, 2020 16:15:51 GMT -5
Magic DID occasionally plan center though, like in the Game 6 vs. Philly in 1980 with a hurt Kareem. Anyway, The Last Dance is right up my alley because I still remember all of this stuff. I didn't really watch the NBA during the Bulls's first two titles and by the 3rd one I was watching again but was fully in the corner of the Suns. But by this point though? Oh man. I was watching with intent. I'll go ahead and throw this out there: Was Jerry Krause wrong about most of these guys? Rodman did nothing after leaving Chicago, just a forgettable year with the Lakers and a few games with Dallas. Kerr got a couple more rings with the Spurs but he was an end of the bench guy that maybe averaged 4 points. Kukoc did hang around with the Bulls for a few years and I can't believe he didn't try to get out of there and go to L.A. or somewhere where he might win again. The centers amounted to little after that. But let's get into Pippen the most here. Was Krause wrong about him? Would you really want to keep a guy coming off back surgery that openly cussed you out on the team bus? Pippen never made another All Star team after leaving Chicago. He was just a guy post 1998. Perhaps Pippen should have forced a renegotiation of his deal or held out? I do think the notion of Pippen being the 2nd best player in the NBA was laughable however. In 1997 Karl Malone won the MVP and even if you think Jordan was better (he was) Malone was easily the #2 guy in the league, with Stockton perhaps being #3. This brings me to Krause's fatal mistake, namely alienating himself from Phil Jackson. Telling Phil he was done after 1998 was possibly the dumbest thing any GM has ever done in any sport. Doing so also mega pissed off Jordan and when you piss off the greatest player AND greatest coach ever then where you can even go after that? What top tier coach would ever go to Chicago? What big name free agents can you attract? The answer is no one and the Bulls spent a huge amount of time rebuilding after 1998 and only the few healthy Rose years produced any results until he got hurt. Jordan retired, Pippen retired, but Jackson kept coaching until 2011 or so and won another 5 titles with the Lakers. As far as the Bulls winning more, I dunno. It was mentioned that the Bulls would have had problems with Hakeem but what on earth would they do with Duncan and Robinson with the Spurs in 1999? By 2000 it's a useless comparison since Jackson was coaching the Lakers, so he can't be in two places at once (Ron Harper was also on both teams). The problem isn't in the fact he wanted to go a different direction, that's fine However, he wanted to break up the team in the middle of their championship run. Guys were set to be free agents so the run was over regardless but he knew if he kept Phil around longer then you had no choice but to keep a winning team around Jordan Krause didn't want to revamp. He built a team around Jordan and made good moves but his wanting to be seen as the man is what doomed him. A slightly structured Bulls team could still done well, they may not have been title favorites but with Jordan anything is possible. Keep Phil, pay Pippen and restructure the team and you still had a chance even with Jordan getting up there in age Hell, who is to say they couldn't have attracted Shaq and he would been the anchor for that new generation as Pippen and MJ got older
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 22, 2020 16:18:13 GMT -5
Yup During the NBA finals, he left before Game 4 to do the match with Hogan Jesus, it was during the Finals?? They surely have to be covering this in the series right? Of course They haven't touched Rodman as a subject yet and that will most likely be a be coming at some point. Rodman antics in general will probably take up a whole episode and that will be included
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2020 16:22:58 GMT -5
Jesus, it was during the Finals?? They surely have to be covering this in the series right? Of course They haven't touched Rodman as a subject yet and that will most likely be a be coming at some point. Rodman antics in general will probably take up a whole episode and that will be included This weeks episodes are on Rodman and Phil Jackson.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 22, 2020 16:27:01 GMT -5
Of course They haven't touched Rodman as a subject yet and that will most likely be a be coming at some point. Rodman antics in general will probably take up a whole episode and that will be included This weeks episodes are on Rodman and Phil Jackson. See, there we go. It was going to be sooner or later since they covered Pippen last episode The Rodman stuff we heard before since he had his own 30 for 30 but hearing Jordan and everyone else perspective will be worth it. Going be interesting to hear from Phil tho for how everything plays out with the Bulls and managing those egos
|
|
|
Post by SHAKEMASTER TV9 is Don Knotts on Apr 22, 2020 17:02:32 GMT -5
Carmen Elektra is an interviewee for the series so you'll get a different perspective compared to the Rodman 30 for 30.
|
|
|
Post by cabbageboy on Apr 22, 2020 17:20:09 GMT -5
Nah, the Rodman/Hogan tag matches were at Bash at the Beach 1997 and 98. Those were on July 12 and 13 respectively, which would be about a month after the Finals. Rodman did do several WCW appearances during that time period though and some were during the NBA season. The BATB 1998 show did WCW's 2nd best buyrate ever to go along with the NBA Finals having record ratings a month earlier, so you can't say Rodman wasn't a draw.
Not that this is a topic for multiple episodes but I'd like to see ESPN do a 30 For 30 on the demise of the Kentucky Colonels (they did do one on the Spirits of St. Louis). In fact the Bulls had a secondary role in that fiasco, since they were kinda trying to block the Colonels from entering the league during the ABA/NBA merger talks due to owning the NBA rights to Artis Gilmore. This has been on my mind since I got a book on the Colonels to read over the past month. Now I am just started Loose Balls, the story of the ABA.
|
|
|
Post by sfvega on Apr 22, 2020 17:39:42 GMT -5
Magic DID occasionally plan center though, like in the Game 6 vs. Philly in 1980 with a hurt Kareem. Very loose definition of "occasionally". He famously started at center (and played all 5 positions) in that ONE game. LeBron also played center occasionally, in that he basically never did.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2020 20:42:09 GMT -5
Reggie Miller really didn't want to be interviewed for this documentary but they managed to talk to him, so I'm looking forward to that.
|
|
|
Post by sfvega on Apr 22, 2020 21:02:04 GMT -5
Yup During the NBA finals, he left before Game 4 to do the match with Hogan Jesus, it was during the Finals?? They surely have to be covering this in the series right? Yeah, Game 3 of the Finals was Sunday in Chicago. Bulls won by 42 points to go up 2-1 in the series. Rodman no-showed the film session the next day and instead flew to Detroit to show up on Nitro and waffle DDP with a pretty solid chair shot to the back. On Wednesday the Bulls won a close game to go up 3-1. It's crazy because had the Bulls lost either of those games, it would be 10x as big an issue in the locker room and in the media. And Dennis seems like the type that would go to Nitro regardless of if he won or lost the night before. He gave no f***s. All things considered, it worked out as well as it could have. The Bulls won both games around the Nitro appearance and the series. But if they didn't, it would still be talked about as an all-time blunder.
|
|
|
Post by cabbageboy on Apr 22, 2020 22:27:14 GMT -5
I guess that was the difference between Phil Jackson and Bob Hill (who coached Rodman in San Antonio). Hill went crazy dealing with Rodman's antics, whereas Phil would just realize it was Dennis being Dennis and just move on. Of course by that point Jackson likely had zero f***s left to give as well.
I know ESPN has done a series on the 1980s Lakers vs. Celtics rivalry but I'd enjoy a 10 part series of this type on the Showtime Lakers. I have Jeff Pearlman's book Showtime (which I got for about 2 bucks at Ollie's, a steal) and it's just an amazing book. There's just so much to delve into, from the early days of it with Paul Westhead replacing an ailing Jack McKinney (the architect of Showtime), Pat Riley replacing Westhead and his evolution into a hard ass, to Kareem's complex and at times hostile persona, the early days of Magic and his kind of rivalry with teammate Norm Nixon, the drugs, sex, excess, just everything. It's actually a more fascinating story than the Bulls, which to me is treading familiar ground since I remember most of this. That book was so good though that I got a couple of other Pearlman books (The Bad Guys Won, about the '86 Mets and Boys Will Be Boys, about the '90s Cowboys) but I started realizing he only cared about the seedy sex, drugs, and alcohol aspects of sports. And truth be told the cast of characters in those other books aren't as interesting, aside from maybe Michael Irvin.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 23, 2020 5:02:04 GMT -5
Reggie Miller really didn't want to be interviewed for this documentary but they managed to talk to him, so I'm looking forward to that. I don't know why he didn't want to be interviewed Reggie is one of the most famous shit talkers of all time, don't be getting modest in your old age
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 23, 2020 5:05:15 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 23, 2020 5:15:25 GMT -5
Jesus, it was during the Finals?? They surely have to be covering this in the series right? Yeah, Game 3 of the Finals was Sunday in Chicago. Bulls won by 42 points to go up 2-1 in the series. Rodman no-showed the film session the next day and instead flew to Detroit to show up on Nitro and waffle DDP with a pretty solid chair shot to the back. On Wednesday the Bulls won a close game to go up 3-1. It's crazy because had the Bulls lost either of those games, it would be 10x as big an issue in the locker room and in the media. And Dennis seems like the type that would go to Nitro regardless of if he won or lost the night before. He gave no f***s. All things considered, it worked out as well as it could have. The Bulls won both games around the Nitro appearance and the series. But if they didn't, it would still be talked about as an all-time blunder. And he had a great Game 4 with 6 points and 14 rebs off the bench If that whole situation had played a part in Jordan not remaining undefeated in the finals it would have been insane. Since they won, it is just chalked up as typical Dennis behavior
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 26, 2020 13:21:48 GMT -5
They said this is Scottie and Mike every time Krause is around, i'm crying lol
|
|
|
Post by AwamoriRock on Apr 26, 2020 19:44:21 GMT -5
Not sure how many of you guys listen to Bill Simmons (I’m a love and hate fan of his) but he’s been on a super bitter tear about this doc since he thinks the 86 Celtics deserve more attention and he tried to be a part of the doc but got turned down years ago lol
|
|
|
Post by MrElijah on Apr 26, 2020 20:26:42 GMT -5
Those early 90s Cavs teams were pretty good. Price, Daughtery and Nance was a fine core.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Apr 26, 2020 20:30:48 GMT -5
Still surreal hearing f-bombs on ESPN.
|
|
|
Post by MrElijah on Apr 26, 2020 21:03:37 GMT -5
Dennis was/is f***ing wild.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Apr 26, 2020 21:10:08 GMT -5
Dennis was/is f***ing wild. That is a broken man
|
|