Welfare Willis
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Posts: 44,259
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Post by Welfare Willis on Jul 14, 2020 22:04:29 GMT -5
Not good. I mean it wasn’t an exciting show at all. But what were the demos? 0.49 for 18 to 34. For comparsion, AEW last week had 0.39 in the same demo.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 232,661
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jul 14, 2020 22:10:51 GMT -5
Both RAW and Smackdown just feel like abysmal viewing at this point, and people simply are tuning out more and more. Bianca and Shayna didn't even pop a rating coming back because they ran Shayna into the ground and haven't done shit with Bianca for you to care. Doesn't shock me multiple R-Truth segments and The Big Show still being a main fixture on shows isn't exactly lighting the world on fire for ratings purposes. Losing half a million viewers since the pandemic started is bad no matter how you slice it. NXT and AEW have been able to keep steady viewership for the most part and increase their viewers and demo lately, RAW and Smackdown just have no excuse. Not sure what unannounced returns of Shayna and Bianca (two people who made their name on a lower-rates NXT show) have to do with popping a rating. Returns can sometimes get people to tune in, Shayna was in the women's title picture almost her entire time on the main roster, even unannounced things can happen, I'm not saying set the world on fire numbers but that rating just stayed flat. Kind of the issue with focusing yur women's division on like four to five women across both brands.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Jul 14, 2020 22:11:22 GMT -5
The shows are absolute garbage. Even when the crowds were there. Everybody comes off as an immature asshole and idiot.
I think I've had enough of WWE, and besides not watching from 96-98, I've been a fan for almost 30 years. I don't watch more than 10 or 15 minutes, if I watch at all. Three hours of shit on Monday nights is torture.
I only keep up because my friend watches, and we talk about it. But even he is fed up with their dumb shit.
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Post by cabbageboy on Jul 14, 2020 22:19:07 GMT -5
I feel sorry for McIntyre in all of this because he'll likely get blamed for these ratings, but really what exactly is he supposed to do? His feuds since WM have been this heatless version of Seth Rollins (who was coming off losing to Owens), then Lashley (coming off the whole Rusev/Lana fiasco as well as losing to Black at WM) and now the uber heatless Dolph Ziggler (coming off losing Mandy Rose to Otis). They haven't even tried to get challengers ready for this guy. His run feels like filler until they can have Orton remove the title from him at SS.
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Post by honsou on Jul 14, 2020 22:43:17 GMT -5
One thing I started to notice on twitter was a lot more WWE diehards take a more defensive stance, even with people posting stuff like "Defend WWE!" and stuff like that.
WWE has not been in a situation like that since at least the Monday Night Wars and even then that concept is pretty iffy. WWE is supposed to be the major leagues and at this point we are a hop skip and a jump away from when crowds come back the diehards chanting "WWE!" when high spots are hit. This is not the kind of situation you want to be in if you're WWE and you're trying to project that you are the only wrestling in town
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Jul 14, 2020 23:02:29 GMT -5
I don't think the ratings are a big deal in a vacuum, it's just hard to watch pro wrestling in today's environment. However, the bigger issue, is that people just are out of the habit of watching Monday nights, and that had to be a part of their audience.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 14, 2020 23:27:37 GMT -5
I’m not even sure what the hell can even BE done to turn this around at the moment. I mean, I said before, there’s a lot of individual things on RAW that people seem to like (McIntyre and Asuka as the top champions, the Lashley/MVP pairing, Orton’s recent work, Bayley and Banks whenever they show up) but it’s not translating to an overall great show, which would indicate “Well, it’s the format”.
So what needs to be done to reinvent that wheel, especially right now when there are no crowds? Like, it’s easy to say “Less scripted promos, less camera cuts, better stories, etc.”, but the core format still doesn’t change much.
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Post by theironyuppie on Jul 14, 2020 23:31:59 GMT -5
I’m not even sure what the hell can even BE done to turn this around at the moment. I mean, I said before, there’s a lot of individual things on RAW that people seem to like (McIntyre and Asuka as the top champions, the Lashley/MVP pairing, Orton’s recent work, Bayley and Banks whenever they show up) but it’s not translating to an overall great show, which would indicate “Well, it’s the format”. So what needs to be done to reinvent that wheel, especially right now when there are no crowds? Like, it’s easy to say “Less scripted promos, less camera cuts, better stories, etc.”, but the core format still doesn’t change much. It’s hard too because I would assume those things that people are enjoying are often things that are targeted to the hardcores. That’s fine, but the lack of actual crowds has removed an important extra feedback mechanism for determining whether acts are being enjoyed. Something might be loved by the internet fans but not necessarily generate ratings interest, though it’s difficult to tell with a lack of more precise metrics—Meltzer can report quarterlies but that’s not the data WWE uses internally.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jul 15, 2020 2:23:21 GMT -5
What's especially scary is that fewer and fewer people are tuning in for the first hour every week. The past two weeks have been record low first hours. At that point, it's hard to really blame the quality of the show that night. Even if they held that audience, it was going to be a low rating. People aren't even tuning in to see what's on.
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thehottag
Don Corleone
We're here for one reason only: fame, fortune, & the World Wrestling Federation Tag Team Champions!
Posts: 1,668
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Post by thehottag on Jul 15, 2020 5:04:29 GMT -5
I think it’s an industry thing. AEW and NXT aren’t setting the world on fire either despite acclaim from the fanbase. A) Wrestling isn’t cool anymore B) Other methods of tv viewing/streaming are killing cable/Traditional viewing. Thing is, for a lot of people, WWE is the industry. They're the biggest brand, & so if they're hot, so is the business. I had a friend of mine who lives in Dubai, & has only ever known WWE, message me to say 'wrestling is full of has-beens & losers'. Young fans want something exciting, older fans want something fresh. Giving them the same thing over & over again is always going to generate apathy. Because WWE has made wrestling feel stale, to the mainstream, the whole business is. AEW & NXT both deliver way better shows, but they're stained by the industry perception. Add to the fact that NXT IS WWE, & also AEW is a new company which will take time to build the brand loyalty. Heck, even if WWE was to hit on a new megastar tomorrow, it would still take time for things to turn around. Even the nWo angle, which turned WCW around to a huge extent, didn't increase business until a good 6 months down the line (the Bash at the Beach show where Hogan turned did fewer buys than the year before). The week to week ratings scrutiny is a hangover of the Monday Night Wars, to see what was causing the wrestling audience to flick over to the other channel. It's much more telling to see their ratings & live crowds decline year on year. And it's the live crowds that knocks the argument about 'other media killing traditional viewing'. Youtube & Netflix doesn't stop someone buying a ticket to their local arena - apathy does. Cable cutting doesn't make a live crowd sit in silence for three hours - boredom does. The people within the company said "wins & losses don't matter", so why should the audience care about seeing who wins? JBL called people who buy PPVs idiots, so why be surprised when people stop buying? I fully expect that McIntyre will be used as the scapegoat for this, or the pandemic, or anything they can think of. Because the one thing they won't do is change: either because they actually like what they're putting out, they're too lazy to, or because they have no idea how.
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Post by eJm on Jul 15, 2020 5:32:33 GMT -5
Heck, even if WWE was to hit on a new megastar tomorrow, it would still take time for things to turn around. Even the nWo angle, which turned WCW around to a huge extent, didn't increase business until a good 6 months down the line (the Bash at the Beach show where Hogan turned did fewer buys than the year before). The week to week ratings scrutiny is a hangover of the Monday Night Wars, to see what was causing the wrestling audience to flick over to the other channel. It's much more telling to see their ratings & live crowds decline year on year. When Steve Austin won the King of the Ring, it was still another while before they put the title on him. He still had to go through a few feuds and neck surgery (Thanks Owen!) before the rocket was strapped on the guy and the ratings reflected how long that took. So WWE themselves know all about that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 13:52:47 GMT -5
What's especially scary is that fewer and fewer people are tuning in for the first hour every week. The past two weeks have been record low first hours. At that point, it's hard to really blame the quality of the show that night. Even if they held that audience, it was going to be a low rating. People aren't even tuning in to see what's on. Drew has been one of the few bright spots of these shows, but it does feel like they've done the exact same opening segment on Raw for the last month or so. I had a serious case of deja vu watching that segment with him, MVP, and Dolph.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jul 15, 2020 14:06:35 GMT -5
The truth is, until this hits Vince in the pocketbook, nothing’s going to change. Yeah, ratings continue to drop, but they’re still making money. Until that changes, Vince will continue to run the ship however he sees fit. How would he change things though? It's not like he secretly knows how to get 10 million viewers but he's saving it for emergencies. (I assume!)
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Post by eJm on Jul 15, 2020 14:14:04 GMT -5
The truth is, until this hits Vince in the pocketbook, nothing’s going to change. Yeah, ratings continue to drop, but they’re still making money. Until that changes, Vince will continue to run the ship however he sees fit. How would he change things though? It's not like he secretly knows how to get 10 million viewers but he's saving it for emergencies. (I assume!) Also to add, they actually have tried to change things. The drafts, the shakeups, the Wild Card rule, whatever this new Wild Card rule is, the third hour being the new "War Zone" hour, the 24/7 title, all of it either lasting but not meaning much or barely lasting a day before Vince gets cold feet when ratings aren't back to Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker from June 1998 levels the next week. The company is reactionary but they're never enough to follow through on their own ideas. Or even grow those ideas to make them mean something.
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4real
Wade Wilson
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Post by 4real on Jul 15, 2020 14:26:14 GMT -5
Watching the highlights on YouTube is sometimes chore enough let alone watching a whole 3 hour show with multiple ad breaks. It’s just not worth it.
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Jul 15, 2020 14:31:07 GMT -5
It doesn’t feel like it was too long ago that we were all anticipating the inevitable drop below 2.0.... now look at us
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Perd on Jul 15, 2020 14:39:26 GMT -5
The truth is, until this hits Vince in the pocketbook, nothing’s going to change. Yeah, ratings continue to drop, but they’re still making money. Until that changes, Vince will continue to run the ship however he sees fit. How would he change things though? It's not like he secretly knows how to get 10 million viewers but he's saving it for emergencies. (I assume!) He should be willing to try anything. Of course there’s no quick fixes. But that’s not an excuse not to try. But what I ultimately believe, is that Vince doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with the product. It’s just because fans are fickle, or don’t really know what they want, that the ratings are down. Because, to Vince, it’s all good shit. The only thing that would get him to come off that mindset is if he started to lose money. In 1997, it was “I better start pushing this bald southern guy. Because if I don’t, I’m going out of business.” His Hans was forced, because it was adapt or die. Again, not knowing what the answer is, isn’t an excuse not to look for one. But Vince doesn’t have to, because it has t affected his bottom line, yet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 14:47:39 GMT -5
It doesn’t feel like it was too long ago that we were all anticipating the inevitable drop below 2.0.... now look at us Just look at us.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jul 15, 2020 15:23:37 GMT -5
How would he change things though? It's not like he secretly knows how to get 10 million viewers but he's saving it for emergencies. (I assume!) He should be willing to try anything. Of course there’s no quick fixes. But that’s not an excuse not to try. But what I ultimately believe, is that Vince doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with the product. It’s just because fans are fickle, or don’t really know what they want, that the ratings are down. Because, to Vince, it’s all good shit. The only thing that would get him to come off that mindset is if he started to lose money. In 1997, it was “I better start pushing this bald southern guy. Because if I don’t, I’m going out of business.” His Hans was forced, because it was adapt or die. Again, not knowing what the answer is, isn’t an excuse not to look for one. But Vince doesn’t have to, because it has t affected his bottom line, yet. Yeah you might be right about the money being all the matters but even then I still don't think he'd do anything that drastically different. His go-to method for quick fix boosts is always just to bring back old guys from 20 years ago rather than story or production changes. He'd just hope Austin and Rock were ready for one last rematch!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2020 15:33:15 GMT -5
Ratings across the board are down (except for the news), so it'll be easy to spin this as a general issue with TV, not WWE. But the truely worrying thing isn't the ratings falling week to week, but rather that they've been falling for years & years & years. The Raw on January 6th 2014 drew 4.5 million viewers. 6 years is a long time I know, but it's not like that audience upped & died en mass. Fact is, the shows mostly looked the same then as they do now - same stars (Roman, Seth, Brock) same sets, same announcers, same part timers stealing all the main events at the big PPVs. It's not like a drastic change has made everyone flee. And THAT, ironically, is where the problem lies. WWE feels the same week after week, month after month, year after year. Characters don't change or progress - even a heel/face turn doesn't change their mannerisms, outfits or theme music. Everything is so scripted that their TV feels stale as year-old bread (ironic for a show called 'Raw'). The audience wasn't driven away by overpushing Roman, or Corbin, or any other character. They were eroded away by the same-old, same-old. WWE has made the brand the star, & the brand is as cold as ice. Add to the fact Triple H used to come out & actively tell the crowd "Don't like it? Stop watching then!" (Wonder if anyone ever brings this up with him when the ratings come in?) I think it’s an industry thing. AEW and NXT aren’t setting the world on fire either despite acclaim from the fanbase. A) Wrestling isn’t cool anymore B) Other methods of tv viewing/streaming are killing cable/Traditional viewing. This is the most important thing when having this conversation in 2020, in my opinion. Wrestling fans, perhaps more than any other "fandom" (due to having such good nostalgic feelings associated with the Monday Night Wars) tend to judge success and failure based primarily on Nielsen Ratings. But, truly, Nielsen Ratings are extraordinarily antiquated in 2020 to the point that they hardly even merit discussion. Yeah, RAW is a terrible wrestling show, and these numbers are alarming, but when you consider how many people very likely either: (1) DVRed the show; (2) are going to watch the show at their leisure later on Hulu and/or the USA app; or (3) will catch the segments they actually care about on YouTube, the core audience is still roughly what it always was. Back in 1998, if you wanted to keep up with the WWE you HAD to tune in on Mondays at 9 - you really had no other choice. Nowadays, literally anything and everything you could possibly want to watch is at your fingertips and the entertainment industry is super oversaturated. You simply cannot compare how things were in 1998 to now.
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