Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 6, 2020 17:28:56 GMT -5
Yeah I dont get on passing on Deonna but at LEAST they don't seem to be passing on Conti.
Sienna, Thunder Rosa, Marti Belle and Ashley Vox are all kind of free agents at this point, I don't think you can afford to not make offers to a few of them.
Kenny cares about the girls but he cares about the Joshi especially. That's the women he should be booking if they give him something because that's a clear passion project of his. The other girls need someone else. Britt Baker is apparently a Cody project and it's damn successful. The other girls definitely need someone like a Dustin or Jericho. Having multiple hands on deck for this division might be the best thing for it.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Aug 6, 2020 17:30:54 GMT -5
I wouldn’t call it doom & gloom. More like constructive criticism My word choice was wrong but my point remains. If AEW took the constructive criticism from this thread by giving them more screen time and longer matches, what would happen? I’m positive it would decrease the amount of women watching the show. So to what end? You do have to start somewhere tho. It’s easy to say now while things are flowing but if they are an afterthought now, they will continue to be so in the future but the justification will be ratings is good so who cares. It’s not to say you need the women all over the show but as I said earlier their output is lesser then impact and WWE/NXT which could hurt them later if not in ratings but at least in talent. However, In saying that I think if they had a Sasha Banks, Becky Lynch etc they’d be pushed to the moon
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Post by eJm on Aug 6, 2020 17:39:30 GMT -5
I think about it like this;
Their demos for women are going up and that’s a really good thing overall. The ratings are great right now and could also really only get better.
Imagine if you put more time into improving appeal to other demographics. Those same women watching right now could tell their friends and convince them with someone that they could, potentially, relate to on a weekly basis. Then they could tell their friends etc and get more outside viewership for it.
I’ve said before, and still stand by WWE always making the better offers and having the better base to do things. Martinez and Viper are my two go to examples because, well, AEW doesn’t have a PC or a UK division to offer. And again, they have billions so of course they can snatch up whoever they want to in a heartbeat.
BUT that does not mean that there can’t be offers made or talent out there to potentially get. You’ve showcased a few on Dark and Dynamite, you’ve had them in your audience for shows (No, Faye, that wasn’t your cousin, stop lying) and they’re promoting themselves on social media all the time. Make the moves. You can’t be telling me Brian Pillman Jr is the only one who wants an MLW release when Zede Zhang has TV experience, for example.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Aug 6, 2020 17:41:49 GMT -5
I wouldn’t call it doom & gloom. More like constructive criticism My word choice was wrong but my point remains. If AEW took the constructive criticism from this thread by giving them more screen time and longer matches, what would happen? I’m positive it would decrease the amount of women watching the show. So to what end? That's just kind of assuming that what they are doing now is the best they can possibly do, and also just assuming that women are not ratings draws. Which - isn't backed up. Britt Baker, post heel turn, has been great for ratings, and was the first woman to have a shirt be the #1 shirt on PWTees. The women have always done just fine in the ratings when they have been doing something worthwhile, whether that's a Britt heel promo or fantastic matches like Riho/Nyla or Shida/Ford. They usually aren't the top of the show (Britt came close a few times, if I am remembering correctly), but they do well - they certainly aren't the ratings death that SCU and the Best Friends minus Orange have been. And like...those two teams aren't going to be let go for that, nor should they be. The thing is, the women's division as they have it now is unsustainable. If they want it to still be compelling, if they want to keep those women as bankable merch movers and reasons to watch, they have to make sure that they are part of good television with a variety of opponents and actual narrative hooks.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 6, 2020 17:50:09 GMT -5
Did they pass on Deonna? In her Van Vliet interview, it sure sounded like she specifically went to Impact because going right from WWE to AEW would put her under a microscope, and considering NXT didn't use her for shit, she wanted to rebuild herself first. I appreciate this thread so much. Women’s division has easily been AEW’s major weakness. The reality is that we are nearly a year into this division and what memorable angles have they’ve had that don’t involve Britt? With 2 hours each week??? It’s embarrassing and they need to be taken to task for it, especially if they are gonna insist on transparent as day virtue signaling. I get what you are saying, but holy shit, "virtue signaling" is maybe my least favorite expression in the world. The well isn't poisoned so much as it's crawling with demons.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Aug 6, 2020 18:57:16 GMT -5
Did they pass on Deonna? In her Van Vliet interview, it sure sounded like she specifically went to Impact because going right from WWE to AEW would put her under a microscope, and considering NXT didn't use her for shit, she wanted to rebuild herself first. I appreciate this thread so much. Women’s division has easily been AEW’s major weakness. The reality is that we are nearly a year into this division and what memorable angles have they’ve had that don’t involve Britt? With 2 hours each week??? It’s embarrassing and they need to be taken to task for it, especially if they are gonna insist on transparent as day virtue signaling. I get what you are saying, but holy shit, "virtue signaling" is maybe my least favorite expression in the world. The well isn't poisoned so much as it's crawling with demons. I actually agree. Couldn’t think of another word to get across my point but it is a word that gets abused a ton.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 6, 2020 19:05:40 GMT -5
I think it has always been said that AEW just blew it with the women early. We have discussed Kylie, Britt, and even Nyla's early failures. But I think based on hype they had bigger plans for Priestly and Sadie Gibbs and for various reasons that failed or hsd been put on the back burner.
Now you have Britt, Nyla, Swole, Penelope, and Shida as good vets until Statlander is healthy. I do think some of the girls from Dark have potential as does Abadon. But the reliance on international woman has to stop for the time being.
I dont think its fair to say that women are not a priority. I do think it needs to be more of a priority to fix and hopefully the Deadly Draw can help with that.
But there is no shame in saying our early vision for the women's division failed. But it is also fair to say we have a couple girls we think we can build the division around
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Post by One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel on Aug 6, 2020 19:30:30 GMT -5
Meanwhile they're trying to grab $50 a year from female fans looking for a safe community to talk about wrestling. Interesting tactiiic.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Aug 6, 2020 19:33:10 GMT -5
In possibly related news, Brandi Rhodes has left Twitter.
That's the smartest thing she's done this week.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on Aug 6, 2020 19:34:58 GMT -5
Now I wonder where that Nightmare Collective angle would have went if it wasn't met with near unanimous jeers, to their credit they did listen to the audience and quickly killed it off. Abadon needs to start getting more time on the main show According to sources, the endgame was going to be Nightmare Collective vs Shida, Statlander, Swole and Sonny with the babyfaces going over.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 6, 2020 19:35:35 GMT -5
I wouldn’t call it doom & gloom. More like constructive criticism My word choice was wrong but my point remains. If AEW took the constructive criticism from this thread by giving them more screen time and longer matches, what would happen? I’m positive it would decrease the amount of women watching the show. So to what end? Why are ratings the reason that they should not feature the women more? If the best ratings would be had with no women’s division should they do that too? I think the point is more about representation than ratings.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 6, 2020 21:52:27 GMT -5
I think that putting the women they currently have available to them on TV more would maybe do them some ratings harm in the short term, but, that in and of itself isn't a compelling reason not to do it. I'm glad the women have been given time on Dark, and the Deadly Draw has had a fun start that I hope will continue, but I think they do need to invest in more of the women for Dynamite airtime. That is the only way they will grow.
I think it puts them in a difficult position because yeah, NXT has a huge head start on women wrestlers and has more cards to play there, but you still have to eat the short term losses for longterm gain.
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Post by flowercity on Aug 6, 2020 22:22:44 GMT -5
My word choice was wrong but my point remains. If AEW took the constructive criticism from this thread by giving them more screen time and longer matches, what would happen? I’m positive it would decrease the amount of women watching the show. So to what end? Why are ratings the reason that they should not feature the women more? If the best ratings would be had with no women’s division should they do that too? I think the point is more about representation than ratings. Having no women would definitely hurt ratings so your example doesn’t work. Regardless, if you’re putting more women on the show because of representation, and it drives off women viewers, then what is actually being done? Women are not staying away from wrestling because women aren’t represented enough. I know this is going to be a wildly unpopular opinion, but the type of women’s wrestling that is being championed in this thread has never drawn in America. I’m skeptical it could ever do so. Ronda was the best chance for a company to build itself around a woman and she is frankly too famous to do pro wrestling regularly. Becky regularly drew better TV ratings than her peers but house shows dropped. I don’t want it to be this way. I’m of the belief that the way WWF/E portrayed women for DECADES essentially “killed the territory” with women’s wrestling in the USA. It sucks. Every other wrestling company, and woman wrestler has paid the price.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 6, 2020 22:28:23 GMT -5
I think that putting the women they currently have available to them on TV more would maybe do them some ratings harm in the short term, but, that in and of itself isn't a compelling reason not to do it. I'm glad the women have been given time on Dark, and the Deadly Draw has had a fun start that I hope will continue, but I think they do need to invest in more of the women for Dynamite airtime. That is the only way they will grow. I think it puts them in a difficult position because yeah, NXT has a huge head start on women wrestlers and has more cards to play there, but you still have to eat the short term losses for longterm gain. They just need a compelling match Do Shida/Swole vs Nyla/Reba or Nyla/Diamante or something. Or Shida's open challenge and someone like Rosa or Sienna shows up, that would pop a rating. Shida always gets people tuned in. The Deadly Draw feels like there is gonna be some storyline endgame here, I just hope All Out gets a Shida title match rolling.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Aug 6, 2020 22:37:40 GMT -5
I know this is going to be a wildly unpopular opinion, but the type of women’s wrestling that is being championed in this thread has never drawn in America. I’m skeptical it could ever do so. I’m of the belief that the way WWF/E portrayed women for DECADES essentially “killed the territory” with women’s wrestling in the USA. It sucks. Every other wrestling company, and woman wrestler has paid the price. I don't buy that at all. Today's wrestling audience is vastly different. They want badass women's wrestling, they want those larger than life female heroes. And what are you basing the idea on that showcasing the women more would be detrimental, after you noted how their ratings have been rising?
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Shark
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Post by Shark on Aug 6, 2020 22:40:02 GMT -5
I honestly feel at this point that saying something like "But the pandemic wrecked their roster" is giving them a pass that isn't being given to other companies or even elsewhere in AEW. The pandemic has effected everybody, but they made adjustments for it. It can be argued that AEW hasn't made the most of their adjustments. Shida is champion, but does she really feel like the most important woman on the roster?
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Derk!
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Post by Derk! on Aug 6, 2020 22:45:33 GMT -5
One of my issues is them not even featuring Shida on the show every week(having her sitting next to the Gunn Club doesn't count). She doesn't have to have a match every week, but a pre-taped promo, like the ones they do for Mox, would do wonders.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,690
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 6, 2020 22:45:56 GMT -5
I honestly feel at this point that saying something like "But the pandemic wrecked their roster" is giving them a pass that isn't being given to other companies or even elsewhere in AEW. The pandemic has effected everybody, but they made adjustments for it. It can be argued that AEW hasn't made the most of their adjustments. Shida is champion, but does she really feel like the most important woman on the roster? Difference is, their talent was overseas when it happened. WWE keeps everyone in Florida and moves them there frankly. They didn't lose any girls, Impact's girls were also living in the states for the most part, so they didn't lose anyone either. AEW has a thing where their foreign talents could still live and compete overseas, and of course nobody planned for a global pandemic, so all the Joshi were over in Japan as was Bea Priestley and Jamie Hayter, PAC, Shanna, and others, and they got locked out of coming back and still are. It is a major issue, and I get that it's not a complete blanket excuse, but of all the women's divisions out there, this impacted AEW the hardest and it's not even close, and that's not even factoring major injuries to two of the top talent in Baker and Statlander was just a giant kick while they were down.
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Post by flowercity on Aug 6, 2020 22:53:45 GMT -5
I know this is going to be a wildly unpopular opinion, but the type of women’s wrestling that is being championed in this thread has never drawn in America. I’m skeptical it could ever do so. I’m of the belief that the way WWF/E portrayed women for DECADES essentially “killed the territory” with women’s wrestling in the USA. It sucks. Every other wrestling company, and woman wrestler has paid the price. I don't buy that at all. Today's wrestling audience is vastly different. They want badass women's wrestling, they want those larger than life female heroes. And what are you basing the idea on that showcasing the women more would be detrimental, after you noted how their ratings have been rising? The audience who already likes wrestling wants that. That audience is also incredibly shrinking. The casual fan, the ones who they have to attract to the product, do not.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Aug 6, 2020 22:59:22 GMT -5
I honestly feel at this point that saying something like "But the pandemic wrecked their roster" is giving them a pass that isn't being given to other companies or even elsewhere in AEW. The pandemic has effected everybody, but they made adjustments for it. It can be argued that AEW hasn't made the most of their adjustments. Shida is champion, but does she really feel like the most important woman on the roster? Oh the roster was wrecked but thats because of how many women they were relying on are international. Riho, Shida,Yuka, Shanna, Gibbs, and Priestley. That is 6 women that were international .. and that doesn't include Jayme Hayter and Emi Sakura that were used on Dynamite as well. Now Shida did come over full time so we will put that at 5 women that were lost... 7 if you want to include Emi and Jayme. Now that being said, if you want to argue that AEW ignored domestic talent to showcase international talent with international commitments that would prevent full time exposure in AEW? That is a very valid conversation that I agree to since it became very evident way before the pandemic that AEW would not have several women they clearly wanted to showcase full time at least for awhile... that was poor planning and they do deserve flak for that. Now the division is not completely lost. They have a couple pieces that are good building blocks especially since Britt Baker found her groove as a heel. But they gotta add depth. As I mentioned earlier, use the Deadly Draw and fill out the division
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