Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 25, 2020 22:09:50 GMT -5
This was another productive night. You cant say at this point they aren't trying to do better
First hour had maybe Vickie's best promo ever since she wasn't screaming, setting up what might be a bit of a war of concflicting interests of Brandi's friends and prospects vs the likes of Nyla, Jade, and whoever else Vickie could have up her sleeve, promising way to get a bunch of girls involved in something
The Title match was fun, and had a great video package beforehand, Shida needs more of those as it definitely helps her confidence and any language barrier, she looked great. The match continued the TayJay tension, and introduced Abadon back in a big way as she looks to focus down Shida and maybe take the women's title.
Next wek we got Leyla Hirsch vs Britt Baker, exciting match on paper and should build to the Thunder Rosa feud more, if we get more segments as well all the better.
I'm just happy to see genuine effort, you almost wish they were doing this weeks ago, but I'm glad they're doing it period. We need more positivity in this thread at the aspect of they are doing better with the division, and the last few weeks have been nice, I hope it continues!
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RKTaker
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Post by RKTaker on Nov 25, 2020 22:12:31 GMT -5
Not only do i wish they were doing this weeks ago, i wish they had been doing this since the beginning, ah well better late than never I suppose
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Nov 25, 2020 22:15:23 GMT -5
If they wanna do Vickie vs Brandi, then is Vickie gonna recruit someone because I dont see Vickie wrestling again?
Shida/Anna Jay video package was good, Shida isnt bad on the mic, the match had tension with DO and Tay being involved and a good postmatch with Abadon showing up, I wonder if Shida will drop the title to Abadon or keep it once she heads back to Japan.
Leyla vs Britt should be good, hope Leyla gets a videopackage.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on Nov 25, 2020 22:26:31 GMT -5
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 25, 2020 22:30:59 GMT -5
If they wanna do Vickie vs Brandi, then is Vickie gonna recruit someone because I dont see Vickie wrestling again? Shida/Anna Jay video package was good, Shida isnt bad on the mic, the match had tension with DO and Tay being involved and a good postmatch with Abadon showing up, I wonder if Shida will drop the title to Abadon or keep it once she heads back to Japan. Leyla vs Britt should be good, hope Leyla gets a videopackage. Vickie will man a faction. Nyla and Jade, and maybe finally get La Sicaria's involved? Brandi has Red Velvet, Serena Deeb and Big Swole as Vickie said in the promo, and has teased KiLynn King as well, so there's enough bite for this to be a war with a lot of girls, and some of the younger ones too. Also could set up Nyla vs Deeb for the NWA Women's Title on the down low...
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Nov 25, 2020 23:06:05 GMT -5
The mention of Serena Deeb on Brandi's side was a bit random, gotta say. There's been absolutely no connection prior to that, to where I wonder if that was a mistake that Vickie covered for since she seemed to check her words to work in Red Velvet afterward.
But hey, a second week of positive movement. They still have a lot of work to do to earn good faith, because they just spent a year treating women's wrestling as a grudging obligation. That is not going to be quickly forgotten.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 25, 2020 23:15:44 GMT -5
The mention of Serena Deeb on Brandi's side was a bit random, gotta say. There's been absolutely no connection prior to that, to where I wonder if that was a mistake that Vickie covered for since she seemed to check her words to work in Red Velvet afterward. But hey, a second week of positive movement. They still have a lot of work to do to earn good faith, because they just spent a year treating women's wrestling as a grudging obligation. That is not going to be quickly forgotten. Deeb helped Brandi in that segment with Velvet, she was the other girl, so it wasn't out of nowhere. I had to look again to see it was Deeb but it was.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 26, 2020 6:26:37 GMT -5
Put women’s matches in spots other than 9:30. Lol, we're always gonna find something to complain about in this thread aren't we? Like I get it, but also the women are doing very well in this timeframe lately. If they make that spot the time to tune in to see the girls fight, it's not a negative. That said, they could put the girls in matches outside of it, but if they're gonna draw in that spot, there's no need at this time. A timeframe makes the division look too minor league, IMO. Their long term goal should be women wrestlers that can have a segment anywhere, a la Moxley. Shida, Anna and company, at the moment, are still booked like midcarders. They should take notes on how WWE’s helped make the Horsewomen into big time stars, cause they can main event just about any PPV.
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Post by eJm on Nov 26, 2020 6:35:14 GMT -5
Lol, we're always gonna find something to complain about in this thread aren't we? Like I get it, but also the women are doing very well in this timeframe lately. If they make that spot the time to tune in to see the girls fight, it's not a negative. That said, they could put the girls in matches outside of it, but if they're gonna draw in that spot, there's no need at this time. A timeframe makes the division look too minor league, IMO. Their long term goal should be women wrestlers that can have a segment anywhere, a la Moxley. Shida, Anna and company, at the moment, are still booked like midcarders. They should take notes on how WWE’s helped make the Horsewomen into big time stars, cause they can main event just about any PPV. I mean, technically they are since WWE pretty much booked a lot of them like midcarders before they actually did push them in any substantial way. ...Nobody should forget the Gang Wars Era! (Just to clarify, no, I’m not being serious, just pointing out WWE pretty much had to be pushed into this too)
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 26, 2020 6:46:59 GMT -5
A timeframe makes the division look too minor league, IMO. Their long term goal should be women wrestlers that can have a segment anywhere, a la Moxley. Shida, Anna and company, at the moment, are still booked like midcarders. They should take notes on how WWE’s helped make the Horsewomen into big time stars, cause they can main event just about any PPV. I mean, technically they are since WWE pretty much booked a lot of them like midcarders before they actually did push them in any substantial way. ...Nobody should forget the Gang Wars Era! (Just to clarify, no, I’m not being serious, just pointing out WWE pretty much had to be pushed into this too) Don’t matter now, they’re stars. That’s the standard AEW’s women should be aiming at.
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Post by eJm on Nov 26, 2020 6:57:32 GMT -5
I mean, technically they are since WWE pretty much booked a lot of them like midcarders before they actually did push them in any substantial way. ...Nobody should forget the Gang Wars Era! (Just to clarify, no, I’m not being serious, just pointing out WWE pretty much had to be pushed into this too) Don’t matter now, they’re stars. That’s the standard AEW’s women should be aiming at. I mean, it sort of does because WWE had to be pushed to do some of it. It took them this long to make Sasha an actual credible singles champion for example. If anything, AEW shouldn’t have to be pushed because they have those examples to go against.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 26, 2020 7:18:27 GMT -5
Don’t matter now, they’re stars. That’s the standard AEW’s women should be aiming at. I mean, it sort of does because WWE had to be pushed to do some of it. It took them this long to make Sasha an actual credible singles champion for example. If anything, AEW shouldn’t have to be pushed because they have those examples to go against. It's honestly so goofy to me how the narrative has become "they should look at WWE!", forgetting that their "women's revolution" was nothing more than a PR stunt and they spent YEARS treating women's wrestling as at best an afterthought and at worst titillation for 15 year olds. I mean, good for them for finally (being forced into) taking it more seriously, but no, AEW doesn't need pointers from the company that made a woman bark like a dog. And that's not me saying they can't do better, because they can, but also let's stop re-writing history because Becky Lynch got to main event a couple of times.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 26, 2020 7:25:45 GMT -5
I mean, it sort of does because WWE had to be pushed to do some of it. It took them this long to make Sasha an actual credible singles champion for example. If anything, AEW shouldn’t have to be pushed because they have those examples to go against. It's honestly so goofy to me how the narrative has become "they should look at WWE!", forgetting that their "women's revolution" was nothing more than a PR stunt and they spent YEARS treating women wrestling as at best an afterthought and at worst titillation. I mean, good for them for finally (being forced into) taking it more seriously, but no, AEW doesn't need pointers from the company that made a woman bark like a dog. And that's not me saying they can't do better, because they can, but also let's stop re-writing history. There’s no rewriting of history from me here, because they wouldn’t be looking at Russo writing for examples. Of course AEW’s women are ahead of that. The thing with me is that, I feel every promotion should be trying to aim for the stars with their women. Outside of managing a women’s wrestling company like Stardom or Ice Ribbon, AEW should be building up women talent that one day can headline an All Out. All of that bra and panty stuff, I’m not thinking about that at the moment because it’s a (near) general consensus that stuff was god awful. It’s the post Mania 35 landscape I’m really focused on. EDIT: I should clarify, I’m not thinking about the bra and panty stuff *anymore* because earlier in the thread, I did give AEW credit for at least being above that style of booking women’s wrestling. For me though, it still feels like they’re playing catch up *and* they’re not investing the same amount of storyline development with them as the guys.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Nov 26, 2020 8:18:25 GMT -5
It's honestly so goofy to me how the narrative has become "they should look at WWE!", forgetting that their "women's revolution" was nothing more than a PR stunt and they spent YEARS treating women wrestling as at best an afterthought and at worst titillation. I mean, good for them for finally (being forced into) taking it more seriously, but no, AEW doesn't need pointers from the company that made a woman bark like a dog. And that's not me saying they can't do better, because they can, but also let's stop re-writing history. There’s no rewriting of history from me here, because they wouldn’t be looking at Russo writing for examples. Of course AEW’s women are ahead of that. The thing with me is that, I feel every promotion should be trying to aim for the stars with their women. Outside of managing a women’s wrestling company like Stardom or Ice Ribbon, AEW should be building up women talent that one day can headline an All Out. All of that bra and panty stuff, I’m not thinking about that at the moment because it’s a (near) general consensus that stuff was god awful. It’s the post Mania 35 landscape I’m really focused on. EDIT: I should clarify, I’m not thinking about the bra and panty stuff *anymore* because earlier in the thread, I did give AEW credit for at least being above that style of booking women’s wrestling. For me though, it still feels like they’re playing catch up *and* they’re not investing the same amount of storyline development with them as the guys. I kind of get the feeling that Tony wasn't involved with the women at the beginning and is now taking an active role in scouting. Biggest reason I say that is the women that are getting tryouts on Dark and are seeming to get more featured seem to have full blown characters that can translate with a crowd. I dunno why but that seems like more of a Tony Khan (and honestly Dustin Rhodes) think than a Kenny Omega thing. It also just seems like focus has shifted a bit ever since the Britt/Swole match. Not that the women are getting more focus (though I think there are things that have been encouraging) but i dunno... seems like things have been treated more as a hard reset and everybody is back on equal ground and the division is silently starting over. I also get the impression that AEW looks at the women matches late being a semi main event and seeing it more as a good place to highlight the women rather than as a death trap. Could be wrong on that. I do think in recent weeks the matches have been treated with much more respect for sure.
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Post by eJm on Nov 26, 2020 10:13:40 GMT -5
Just to add, the WWE reference is less about the past and more about the present. Even post 35, you can tell that WWE relies on a couple of names and doesn't really know what to do when those names are gone. Yeah, they did well by all accounts with Bayley but Bayley also beat everyone else in the division, especially one you would assume they were building to win in Lacey Evans. And even the wider division feels like it's in desperate need of rebuilding when most of the better talent are on NXT, WWE not deciding if it's a development brand or a third brand.
If anything, the framework AEW should take is Impact's. Yeah, their history hasn't always been good but by all accounts, their women are pretty prominent across the show (Impact did more to make a star out of Deonna Purrazzo in two weeks than WWE did in two years) and you could easily buy, say, Jordynne Grace getting an X-Division title shot because they built her to an extent where that makes sense. That's not to say the company should look into intergender wrestling but we shouldn't have cases of Becky Lynch being intimidated by Baron Corbin when Becky's barely been intimidated by anyone else beforehand (besides apologising to the McMahons, but let's ignore that one, yeah?).
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Post by sunnytaker on Nov 26, 2020 10:21:17 GMT -5
i'm wondering how many of these women that have started appearing have been from the nightmare school- or whatever they call it. you figure since the pandemic began they've gotten an extra six months or so of in ring training under their belts and now we are starting to see the fruits of that development whereas before they were too green to put out there as anything but jobber fodder. i don;t really know much about the women's indy scene unless they popped up on Impact or RoH at some point, so wondering how many are completely fresh faces and how many are in the ivelisse/dianante/serena deeb category or somewhere in between
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Nov 26, 2020 10:34:26 GMT -5
i'm wondering how many of these women that have started appearing have been from the nightmare school- or whatever they call it. you figure since the pandemic began they've gotten an extra six months or so of in ring training under their belts and now we are starting to see the fruits of that development whereas before they were too green to put out there as anything but jobber fodder. i don;t really know much about the women's indy scene unless they popped up on Impact or RoH at some point, so wondering how many are completely fresh faces and how many are in the ivelisse/dianante/serena deeb category or somewhere in between The Nightmare Factory students are Dani Jordyn, Jade Cargill, and Skyler Moore, far as I can tell. All of the more recent tryouts have been around the indies in some capacity - Leyla Hirsch in Beyond, Elayna Black and Rahne Victoria from the Chicago scene, Vipress and Heather Monroe from CWFH, Lindsay Snow from Bloodsport, Bionic Beast Jenna from Rocky Mountain Pro, Kenzie Paige from the Tennessee indies, Alex Gracia from the Texas scene... If anything, it feels like a switch was flipped in the last month or two and they started trying out people who actually had a chance at being roster worthy. Rahne Victoria, Vipress, Dreamgirl Ellie, and Elayna Black are roughly Abadon level prospects; Jenna has been around a while and seemingly finally found a bankable gimmick in the last few months; Lindsay Snow and Leyla Hirsch have the real life combat sports backgrounds that add to their experience levels. All of them have been around the indies in some capacity and all of them except Jenna were just as good circa January.
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kidkamikaze10
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Nov 26, 2020 12:02:02 GMT -5
I think Hirsch should join Team Taz, and Deeb in the Nightmare Family.
Best way to make it clear how important the women are is making sure they are also in the big storylines.
It helps both Brandi and Anna Jay.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Nov 26, 2020 12:03:48 GMT -5
i'm wondering how many of these women that have started appearing have been from the nightmare school- or whatever they call it. you figure since the pandemic began they've gotten an extra six months or so of in ring training under their belts and now we are starting to see the fruits of that development whereas before they were too green to put out there as anything but jobber fodder. i don;t really know much about the women's indy scene unless they popped up on Impact or RoH at some point, so wondering how many are completely fresh faces and how many are in the ivelisse/dianante/serena deeb category or somewhere in between The Nightmare Factory students are Dani Jordyn, Jade Cargill, and Skyler Moore, far as I can tell. All of the more recent tryouts have been around the indies in some capacity - Leyla Hirsch in Beyond, Elayna Black and Rahne Victoria from the Chicago scene, Vipress and Heather Monroe from CWFH, Lindsay Snow from Bloodsport, Bionic Beast Jenna from Rocky Mountain Pro, Kenzie Paige from the Tennessee indies, Alex Gracia from the Texas scene... If anything, it feels like a switch was flipped in the last month or two and they started trying out people who actually had a chance at being roster worthy. Rahne Victoria, Vipress, Dreamgirl Ellie, and Elayna Black are roughly Abadon level prospects; Jenna has been around a while and seemingly finally found a bankable gimmick in the last few months; Lindsay Snow and Leyla Hirsch have the real life combat sports backgrounds that add to their experience levels. All of them have been around the indies in some capacity and all of them except Jenna were just as good circa January. Some of them to be fair were around but some like Leyla got a major signal boost thanks to The Collective which happened recently That didn't just happen for the girls it also happened for the liks of Top Flight. Sometimes shows like that can be important for a career. Helps Janela is around to almost scout in some regard too.
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Post by Cyno on Nov 26, 2020 12:52:19 GMT -5
Outside of promotions like Shimmer that were built entirely on a women's roster, it's taken every promotion time and effort to build up a quality women's division. It took TNA/Impact years to build up theirs (and rebuild after Bruce Pritchard tanked it), and it took WWE decades to build up theirs. There's a lot of room for improvement with AEW's women's division, as previous posts in this thread will tell you, but I also think they're being held to a ridiculous standard by some, too.
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