Cranjis McBasketball☝🏻
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball☝🏻 on Aug 1, 2020 3:12:36 GMT -5
That's because if Taker was 25 today and just started last week, he'd be saying stupid shit for all the world to hear every week like Seth Rollins does. Instead, he kept his fool mouth shut for 30 years.
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Post by Andee9001 on Aug 1, 2020 3:35:34 GMT -5
Yes and no. I've heard some modern fan opinions say that they don't really get it. Seems like their argument is always "Zombie-biker-mortician-wizard, wtf?" But still i think the right character can get over regardless of how out there it can be. As others have said Bray Wyatt right now and id even throw someone like Orange Cassidy into the mix in terms of he's a character people believe in. In saying that i think it has always helped Taker that he debuted when character work was more important than ring work and has been able to constantly change with the times.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Aug 1, 2020 6:25:51 GMT -5
I do believe debuting the character today would really hinder the building of the Undertaker character and mythos. Everything is too visible and everyone is too connected. It could still work, but his ability to keep a low public profile and maintain the mystery and aura of the character would be much, much more difficult than it was to do in the early-to-mid 90s. I'm pretty sure this is what Seth was trying to say and for that reason I can't disagree with him.
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ssdrivin
Team Rocket
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
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Post by ssdrivin on Aug 1, 2020 8:01:32 GMT -5
I'm not the biggest fan of the company, or its product, or even a particular fan of Bray Wyatt, but Bray's work is one thing I have commented on being interesting in a "this is why wrestling is cool" kind of a way. I didn't like the WrestleMania "match" as much as I might've because it was implied that it was a match rather than a promo segment, but in general the effort, creativity, experimentation that's gone into his promos is absolutely critical to his character and success, and he's made strides because of it.
That suggests to me, somebody who isn't super generous with praise for WWE right now, that it can still work if you do it right and that more of it needs to happen.
In contrast I find Seth Rollins to be a boring, bland, generic, cookie-cutter, paint-by-numbers "WWE guy" who just puts me off bothering to watch and shows nothing but contempt for fans in his spare time.
Nobody watches a fantasy, horror, scifi, whatever movie or show and thinks "well, that's just totally beyond belief, what even is this?" (if it's done well), it's a fictional work, we know this, and as some of you have said we just don't need to be punched in the face with that fact every 23 seconds just because "wink wink" or "we're making 'entertainment'".
Let people enjoy the fiction. If that happens to involve undead zombie morticians, or a multiple personality demon, or a bright red 7ft firebender, do that!
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salz4life
Grimlock
Prichard is a guy who gets that his job is to service his boss.
Posts: 13,795
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Post by salz4life on Aug 1, 2020 8:30:00 GMT -5
Let's be honest..... the character shouldn't have lasted more than a couple/few years. The man made the character. No one else could get this gimmick over.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 1, 2020 9:44:31 GMT -5
Looks like Rollins vs. Taker at Mania to me.
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
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Post by Dub H on Aug 1, 2020 9:48:43 GMT -5
* laughs in LU Mil Muertes*
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,488
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Post by Kalmia on Aug 1, 2020 9:59:20 GMT -5
I don't think it would work today. Not because of the character, but because the writers (ie Vince) wouldn't stick with it long enough to get it over properly.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Aug 1, 2020 10:08:27 GMT -5
It wouldn't work because Vince gas the patience of a toddler, he'd lose interest in under a month and turn him into just another guy.
Also they run hundreds of broadcast shows a year, between TV and the network, it's hard to have mystique with that level of exposure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2020 12:42:38 GMT -5
Looks like Rollins vs. Taker at Mania to me. No doubt.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 8:36:32 GMT -5
I wanna make a snarky comment about Rollins, but I know less about him so I have nothing to work with. Hey that's a snarky comment I think. But he makes sense. Moreorless. Of course the Undertaker, which technically should not have worked even in 1990, wouldn't work as he was/is in the ultra-hyper-real world (wrestling and not) of today. Over exposure would probably kill the gimmick, and a 12 year old watching The Last Ride could not POSSIBLY look at the Undertaker in any remarkable way from this point on or maybe even in retrospect. I guess the part that bugs me about this is that the comments are made by a wrestler - when a current top guy can just speak so cold about one of the most significant characters/wrestlers in history it seems like the respect of the Undertaker's legacy is already lost on him or this era of wrestlers........which he openly admits could never grasp the audience the way Taker did. Nothing works in the covid Performance Center ERA. Well, the power's on, which means the generators and utilities work.
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ssdrivin
Team Rocket
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 960
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Post by ssdrivin on Aug 3, 2020 10:11:16 GMT -5
I wanna make a snarky comment about Rollins, but I know less about him so I have nothing to work with. Hey that's a snarky comment I think. But he makes sense. Moreorless. Of course the Undertaker, which technically should not have worked even in 1990, wouldn't work as he was/is in the ultra-hyper-real world (wrestling and not) of today. Over exposure would probably kill the gimmick, and a 12 year old watching The Last Ride could not POSSIBLY look at the Undertaker in any remarkable way from this point on or maybe even in retrospect. I guess the part that bugs me about this is that the comments are made by a wrestler - when a current top guy can just speak so cold about one of the most significant characters/wrestlers in history it seems like the respect of the Undertaker's legacy is already lost on him or this era of wrestlers........which he openly admits could never grasp the audience the way Taker did.
As some others have said though it's not about the character as much as it's about whether you write and present it correctly. If you'd put, I dunno, Baron Corbin in Taker's costume(s) and booked him like a loser geek who comes across like a bad fantasy board game cosplay, well of course that's not going to work, even though it would have quite a lot of elements of the general idea of The Undertaker.
I'm not going to pretend I know precisely what made Taker work, for all I know it was 99% luck, but I sure wouldn't have faith in the current WWE to be able to figure it out either. They would almost certainly overbook, then get cold feet, then underbook or turn him into a jobber (which might not even be so bad if it were actually a genuine comedy thing, rather than pretending the character was a serious threat but then he always loses), the whole thing would be done in 2 months because "he's not getting over", either because they'd repackage him or his character's credibility would've been razed to the ground.
But having said that, I do think it's possible; it's not quite the same, but I enjoy Balor's "big match fight, bring out the demon" type approach (as well as the accompanying aesthetic). As mentioned I'm not super into Bray's takes on the supernatural cultist thing, but I do appreciate it for what he's trying to do. I'd still be into old-school Kane too. When done right, it's the same kind of "oh shit." to me as [glass breaks] or the APA coming out, stuff like that. It doesn't have to be all centred specifically around "he can shoot lightning!" type stuff, it's just flavour to add to a guy you know always makes an impact, something that makes him very recognisable, unique, stand-out. Bray, even if his specific take isn't entirely to my taste, is at least unique. I know when I'm seeing him, even for a moment, he's not just "dude in tights", you know? Ditto Taker, Kane, Balor. But they need to be credible in-ring too, they need to feel like they matter, that they're fulfilling their character's implied importance, which is something Bray arguably wasn't able to do in previous incarnations.
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