Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Aug 3, 2020 22:27:12 GMT -5
The easiest layup would’ve been the Vague Faction cutting the feed from the show (conveniently before 11:00, because no overrun) to broadcast their message. That would have made them instant faces and I doubt WWE wants that.
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Bang Bang Bart
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Aug 3, 2020 22:29:14 GMT -5
Yes. For as long as I’ve been watching WWE which is getting on for 15 years I’ve never seen them do a proper Stable Wars. I’ve seen one stable dominate a show e.g Cabinet, Evolution, Nexus, Shield. But I’ve never seen the roster divided into teams with intersecting storylines as a literal war zone. Other than the awful Diva-Warz. On papers it’s an amazing sounding arc for the show. 15 years? So you missed out on the Gang Warz. Disciples of Apocalypse vs Los Boricuas vs Nation of Domination. Consider yourself lucky, and please don't ask them to do this again. Gang Warz’s main problem was that all factions were heels. This time around, let’s do a faction war, but with clear cut babyface factions to root for.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Aug 3, 2020 22:35:29 GMT -5
I don’t think there’s literally even ONE thing WWE can do to turn things around for them. I mean, we talk about logic and continuity and character development and all that stuff, but if they’re so far in the hole that nobody has any character, nothing makes sense and things get dropped and re-arranged one week to the next, where do you even START fixing that stuff? And how do you expect the average fan to ever believe that you’re turning the corner and stick with you week after week if you ever DO start doing those things again? Long-term fixes require a long-term investment that fans aren’t going to give them, so we end up with all this stunt booking like “Oh, look, an underground fight club!” and “Who are these mystery people playing Molotov Cornhole?” in the hope that SOMETHING clicks. They looking for short-term fixes for long-term problems. And this is going to be the cycle until Vince retires and/or dies.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Aug 3, 2020 22:36:21 GMT -5
15 years? So you missed out on the Gang Warz. Disciples of Apocalypse vs Los Boricuas vs Nation of Domination. Consider yourself lucky, and please don't ask them to do this again. Gang Warz’s main problem was that all factions were heels. This time around, let’s do a faction war, but with clear cut babyface factions to root for. The DOA were meant to be the babyfaces.
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ssdrivin
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Post by ssdrivin on Aug 3, 2020 22:39:19 GMT -5
I don’t think there’s literally even ONE thing WWE can do to turn things around for them. I mean, we talk about logic and continuity and character development and all that stuff, but if they’re so far in the hole that nobody has any character, nothing makes sense and things get dropped and re-arranged one week to the next, where do you even START fixing that stuff? And how do you expect the average fan to ever believe that you’re turning the corner and stick with you week after week if you ever DO start doing those things again? Long-term fixes require a long-term investment that fans aren’t going to give them, so we end up with all this stunt booking like “Oh, look, an underground fight club!” and “Who are these mystery people playing Molotov Cornhole?” in the hope that SOMETHING clicks. They looking for short-term fixes for long-term problems. And this is going to be the cycle until Vince retires and/or dies.
They could've at least given some indication that the molotov crew would be there to explain what the deal is next week, or given some sort of hint as to how permanent RAW Underground is, or what's up with the dude who got poisoned, or what was up with the pushed over box of equipment, or...
Like, sure, don't blow it all in one episode, but don't just close out the episode like none of that stuff happened, acknowledge it and sell it as the hook for next week's show!
Unless, of course, none of it is going to be in next week's show. That would be a good reason not to tease it. But they wouldn't do that... would they?
...would they?
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 3, 2020 22:45:15 GMT -5
The easiest layup would’ve been the Vague Faction cutting the feed from the show (conveniently before 11:00, because no overrun) to broadcast their message. Imagine if there had been no actual announcement, but this was what happened; they'd have footage to put on Youtube and social media, be able to build the mystery, give people something to talk about. TV shows do that. Wrestling used to understand how to do that but Vince is tired and grumpy and he needs a nap real bad, so they've just abandoned those useful devices altogether.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Aug 3, 2020 22:46:58 GMT -5
I don’t think there’s literally even ONE thing WWE can do to turn things around for them. I mean, we talk about logic and continuity and character development and all that stuff, but if they’re so far in the hole that nobody has any character, nothing makes sense and things get dropped and re-arranged one week to the next, where do you even START fixing that stuff? And how do you expect the average fan to ever believe that you’re turning the corner and stick with you week after week if you ever DO start doing those things again? Long-term fixes require a long-term investment that fans aren’t going to give them, so we end up with all this stunt booking like “Oh, look, an underground fight club!” and “Who are these mystery people playing Molotov Cornhole?” in the hope that SOMETHING clicks. They looking for short-term fixes for long-term problems. And this is going to be the cycle until Vince retires and/or dies. Oh yes, there is ONE thing Vince can do. He has to sell the majority control of the board to somebody who has a completely opposite worldview to his. And who hates the friends he associates with.
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Bang Bang Bart
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Aug 3, 2020 22:47:00 GMT -5
I don’t think there’s literally even ONE thing WWE can do to turn things around for them. I mean, we talk about logic and continuity and character development and all that stuff, but if they’re so far in the hole that nobody has any character, nothing makes sense and things get dropped and re-arranged one week to the next, where do you even START fixing that stuff? And how do you expect the average fan to ever believe that you’re turning the corner and stick with you week after week if you ever DO start doing those things again? Long-term fixes require a long-term investment that fans aren’t going to give them, so we end up with all this stunt booking like “Oh, look, an underground fight club!” and “Who are these mystery people playing Molotov Cornhole?” in the hope that SOMETHING clicks. They looking for short-term fixes for long-term problems. And this is going to be the cycle until Vince retires and/or dies. They could've at least given some indication that the molotov crew would be there to explain what the deal is next week, or given some sort of hint as to how permanent RAW Underground is, or what's up with the dude who got poisoned, or what was up with the pushed over box of equipment, or... Like, sure, don't blow it all in one episode, but don't just close out the episode like none of that stuff happened, acknowledge it and sell it as the hook for next week's show! Unless, of course, none of it is going to be in next week's show. That would be a good reason not to tease it. But they wouldn't do that... would they? ...would they?
The Molotov Crew ending the show would’ve made for an interesting cliffhanger ending.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2020 22:47:38 GMT -5
You know what would have been a better ending?
ANYTHING!
Why not connect the two things. Instead of The Hurt Business have some badass dude in a mask wreck fools and chase of the crowd. It looks like he’s about to take off his mask for the feed to cut out. The last shot of Raw is the chaos group destroying the production trunk until the feed cuts out completely.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Aug 3, 2020 22:48:39 GMT -5
I don’t think there’s literally even ONE thing WWE can do to turn things around for them. I mean, we talk about logic and continuity and character development and all that stuff, but if they’re so far in the hole that nobody has any character, nothing makes sense and things get dropped and re-arranged one week to the next, where do you even START fixing that stuff? And how do you expect the average fan to ever believe that you’re turning the corner and stick with you week after week if you ever DO start doing those things again? Long-term fixes require a long-term investment that fans aren’t going to give them, so we end up with all this stunt booking like “Oh, look, an underground fight club!” and “Who are these mystery people playing Molotov Cornhole?” in the hope that SOMETHING clicks. They looking for short-term fixes for long-term problems. And this is going to be the cycle until Vince retires and/or dies. Nash, this isn't on the fans for not having the patience to invest in them. WWE keeps burning these hotshot ratings stunts out to pull people back in and that's what's created the distrust, and if they can actually turn the show around and get things to be good again, people will believe. We're not eighteen months removed from the Kofi main event story, and people had their doubts at the time, but WWE followed through on it and it made people happy. If they could fix their issues and keep things on the up and up, it would have people coming back in time. We've seen people sing a story's praises too many times for the idea fans won't give them the room to do it; WWE just consistently doesn't put in the effort to change on the whole, so the isolated cases are single stories people grab onto when they could be whole episodes. They don't go for long-term fixes and an overhaul of the process because that takes too much work and because the problems lie in Vince and he won't accept that. That's why we end up with these problems over and over, fan reactions are immaterial to that.
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ssdrivin
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Post by ssdrivin on Aug 3, 2020 22:48:59 GMT -5
They could've at least given some indication that the molotov crew would be there to explain what the deal is next week, or given some sort of hint as to how permanent RAW Underground is, or what's up with the dude who got poisoned, or what was up with the pushed over box of equipment, or... Like, sure, don't blow it all in one episode, but don't just close out the episode like none of that stuff happened, acknowledge it and sell it as the hook for next week's show! Unless, of course, none of it is going to be in next week's show. That would be a good reason not to tease it. But they wouldn't do that... would they? ...would they?
The Molotov Crew ending the show would’ve made for an interesting cliffhanger ending.
Yeah, it was just stuffed in the middle like it was some random throwaway nothing. What in the hell is that?!
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Aug 3, 2020 22:51:28 GMT -5
I don’t think there’s literally even ONE thing WWE can do to turn things around for them. I mean, we talk about logic and continuity and character development and all that stuff, but if they’re so far in the hole that nobody has any character, nothing makes sense and things get dropped and re-arranged one week to the next, where do you even START fixing that stuff? And how do you expect the average fan to ever believe that you’re turning the corner and stick with you week after week if you ever DO start doing those things again? Long-term fixes require a long-term investment that fans aren’t going to give them, so we end up with all this stunt booking like “Oh, look, an underground fight club!” and “Who are these mystery people playing Molotov Cornhole?” in the hope that SOMETHING clicks. They looking for short-term fixes for long-term problems. And this is going to be the cycle until Vince retires and/or dies. Nash, this isn't on the fans for not having the patience to invest in them. WWE keeps burning these hotshot ratings stunts out to pull people back in and that's what's created the distrust, and if they can actually turn the show around and get things to be good again, people will believe. We're not eighteen months removed from the Kofi main event story, and people had their doubts at the time, but WWE followed through on it and it made people happy. If they could fix their issues and keep things on the up and up, it would have people coming back in time. We've seen people sing a story's praises too many times for the idea fans won't give them the room to do it; WWE just consistently doesn't put in the effort to change on the whole, so the isolated cases are single stories people grab onto when they could be whole episodes. They don't go for long-term fixes and an overhaul of the process because that takes too much work and because the problems lie in Vince and he won't accept that. That's why we end up with these problems over and over, fan reactions are immaterial to that. I never said it was our fault for not being patient. I was just saying how our lack of patience is largely justified.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Aug 3, 2020 23:37:24 GMT -5
The easiest layup would’ve been the Vague Faction cutting the feed from the show (conveniently before 11:00, because no overrun) to broadcast their message. Imagine if there had been no actual announcement, but this was what happened; they'd have footage to put on Youtube and social media, be able to build the mystery, give people something to talk about. TV shows do that. Wrestling used to understand how to do that but Vince is tired and grumpy and he needs a nap real bad, so they've just abandoned those useful devices altogether. Yeah why the balls did they announce this like this? Like imagine if Save_us.222 was just announced in a vague press release, then they were like "it might be Chris Jericho and he might be back tonight" then he didn't show up.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Aug 3, 2020 23:39:58 GMT -5
Imagine if Tony Schiavone in 1996 just said "I'm told there's a new worldwide organization of some sort coming in tonight to cause chaos" and then it's just one dude with a sign going across the crowd.
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Post by 111111 on Aug 4, 2020 0:59:48 GMT -5
Gang Warz’s main problem was that all factions were heels. This time around, let’s do a faction war, but with clear cut babyface factions to root for. The DOA were meant to be the babyfaces. The bikers with swastika tattoos were the babyfaces?
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Aug 4, 2020 2:21:24 GMT -5
The DOA were meant to be the babyfaces. The bikers with swastika tattoos were the babyfaces? I mean a clueless middle aged white guy owns the company so probably
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Aug 4, 2020 2:50:21 GMT -5
What’s dumb is, just don’t announce anything and you can naturally build this and try to create intrigue. No, now you just get folks pissed and disappointed. Like they try to f*** up these shows, lmao Yeah, I mean the people firebombing the generator with no build up could be enough a ... what the hell is going on, on it's own. We don't need a press release earlier in the night talking about well some new faction is coming or something... maybe post something like there was a note in the parking lot as a mission statement... or do a twitter account that tags WWE with a this was just the beginning or something... not... this.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Aug 4, 2020 5:07:06 GMT -5
What’s dumb is, just don’t announce anything and you can naturally build this and try to create intrigue. No, now you just get folks pissed and disappointed. Like they try to f*** up these shows, lmao Yeah, I mean the people firebombing the generator with no build up could be enough a ... what the hell is going on, on it's own. We don't need a press release earlier in the night talking about well some new faction is coming or something... maybe post something like there was a note in the parking lot as a mission statement... or do a twitter account that tags WWE with a this was just the beginning or something... not... this. I'm really confused with the whole Molotovs to the generator thing. They took out a source of power to the show, but the only thing it seemed to cause was a couple power surges at the beginning of the show, and some issues with the wireless mics.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 4, 2020 5:21:37 GMT -5
Imagine if Tony Schiavone in 1996 just said "I'm told there's a new worldwide organization of some sort coming in tonight to cause chaos" and then it's just one dude with a sign going across the crowd. Lodi?!
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ssdrivin
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Post by ssdrivin on Aug 4, 2020 5:38:41 GMT -5
Yeah, I mean the people firebombing the generator with no build up could be enough a ... what the hell is going on, on it's own. We don't need a press release earlier in the night talking about well some new faction is coming or something... maybe post something like there was a note in the parking lot as a mission statement... or do a twitter account that tags WWE with a this was just the beginning or something... not... this. I'm really confused with the whole Molotovs to the generator thing. They took out a source of power to the show, but the only thing it seemed to cause was a couple power surges at the beginning of the show, and some issues with the wireless mics.
It's that cheesy... hm, I was going to say WWE, but perhaps wrestling in general's (I'm thinking TNA electrified cage) cheap'n'easy approach to faking environmental stuff. There's often zero technical thought displayed, it's just this weird oblivious half-second long skate over the most surface-level idea as to what would visually convey to the audience that a particular technical thing is happening.
"What happens when the power goes out? I dunno, uh, the lights flicker. Right, sure, let's do that."
But nobody thinks, or says, or realistically implements what that would actually look like.
What would this look like if the power was really intermittently and ultimately completely failing?
What specific electrical systems would be affected by this, in what ways, and for how long? Would a backup system kick in? Is there one at all? How long does it take? Would it require an engineer?
When the power is back, somehow, would the lights instantly come on, or dim/brighten unpredictably?
If the facility switched to some kind of backup power, would it be powering the whole facility, including every single light in the lighting rigs?
The lighting, wouldn't it be significantly more unreliable than it was? They set the "generator" on fire, surely that's going to cause severe intermittent faults to begin with, and then ultimately complete failure? That'd be a lot more/worse flickering, no? Seemed to be pretty reliable except the first segment or so, then somehow perfectly fine after. If the generator was out of action, what was feeding power to the facility? Why were they operating on generator power anyway?
Why would the mics intermittently drop out like that, specifically as a result of that kind of "attack"? Interference from arcing circuits, maybe, at a stretch. But the way they portrayed those dropouts was so uniform, it wasn't very random, it was always a second or two at a time and it always came back perfectly right after. Why wasn't this happening as the same time as the lighting failures?
Maybe the faction were doing other stuff, like twiddling random knobs in the production truck, but if they did then we weren't shown that, so we could only speculate (based on... zero info).
I feel like I'm being suuuuuper picky with some of these questions, I know this is a wrestling show and I'm sounding like the kind of online reviewer who watches a low budget movie and has to pick fault with every second of it because it wasn't written by a technical expert, or produced in such a way as to convey technical aspects in a hyper-realistic (and therefore possible visually boring) way. But I think there's a space you can occupy between "must be precisely what would happen in real life" and "I dunno, just flick a light switch on and off". You'd think they could've asked one of the lighting guys, like "hey, just suppose there was a power failure in here, what would that look like with the lighting? could you replicate that for an effect?".
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