Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Oct 2, 2020 16:14:12 GMT -5
But they still have investors, and something like WWE, who can then advertise for them, makes a lot of sense. I would not at all be surprised to hear Vince or Steph has bought a chunk of it. Steph was freeing up capital recently as well.... Twitch seriously does not need WWE, it'd be like one of us investing or something, I mean not me because i'm an important successful business man but another forum member I'm not saying they need, I'm just saying it makes business sense given this news. And if Bezos can make money off Vince, and make more money from Vince doing free advertising and talent exploitation on the platform, then boom - plus Vince gets extra money from the talent and the shares, so all the billionaires are happy. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Oct 2, 2020 16:32:20 GMT -5
WWE isn't investing into Amazon or into twitch, this is only about trying to own people and make sure nobody is allowed to make money under WWE contract that they don't get a cut of. I don't even think any wrestler is big enough as a streamer for it to even be something twitch would care about outside of their usual partnership arrangements with streamers.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Oct 2, 2020 16:34:58 GMT -5
WWE isn't investing into Amazon or into twitch, this is only about trying to own people and make sure nobody is allowed to make money under WWE contract that they don't get a cut of. I don't even think any wrestler is big enough as a streamer for it to even be something twitch would care about outside of their usual partnership arrangements with streamers. Paige would get pretty seriously f***ed by this if it goes through, I sometimes wonder if WWE money people saw the amount of money people like Ninja got paid and thought "we want some of that pie" |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Oct 2, 2020 16:35:04 GMT -5
Twitch seriously does not need WWE, it'd be like one of us investing or something, I mean not me because i'm an important successful business man but another forum member I'm not saying they need, I'm just saying it makes business sense given this news. And if Bezos can make money off Vince, and make more money from Vince doing free advertising and talent exploitation on the platform, then boom - plus Vince gets extra money from the talent and the shares, so all the billionaires are happy. Here’s the key thing, though. WWE as an entity has been trying to work with other companies for ages. They said it themselves, they had a plan to make deals with other companies to either share footage or collaborate and the only company to take the bait was Netflix which hasn’t been so hot. If WWE signed any kind of deal with Amazon during that time, you know we’d be hearing from Vince. He’d be yelling it at shareholders meetings in response to any remotely negative query and it’d be on TV so much, Michael Cole’d be wearing a shirt with Bezos’ face all over it. Amazon just aren’t interested. Nor would they suddenly be interested for a deal where they don’t get to take the full cut of something. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Oct 2, 2020 16:42:22 GMT -5
WWE isn't investing into Amazon or into twitch, this is only about trying to own people and make sure nobody is allowed to make money under WWE contract that they don't get a cut of. I don't even think any wrestler is big enough as a streamer for it to even be something twitch would care about outside of their usual partnership arrangements with streamers. Paige would get pretty seriously f***ed by this if it goes through, I sometimes wonder if WWE money people saw the amount of money people like Ninja got paid and thought "we want some of that pie" Oh yeah on an individual level, the money here isn't insignificant at all, and for someone like Paige, and I'm glad she's found new footing. But each individual is not bringing anything to the table that's particularly huge by itself. WWE wants to wring that money from everyone as a whole. But I don't think Ninja himself factors into it; this is Vince deciding to control people and f*** them over, he doesn't understand this world. He's just had it explained to him and figures he can do whatever he wants. |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Oct 2, 2020 16:42:25 GMT -5
To discuss the independence contractor stuff, the government doesn't actively police shitty business contracts, a talent would have to pursue it. There are a few examples of it...
WWE have already effectively lost the independent contractor argument before. Raven, Kris Kanyon and Mike Sanders all filed a lawsuit in 2008 saying they were improperly classed as independent contractors, and WWE’s defence wasn’t “they meet the legal definition of independent contractors”, but “their contracts said they were independent contractors, so they’re independent contractors”. In the end the case was thrown out because it was filed too late. And when Lesnar ended up working for New Japan, WWE tried to say that he’d agreed a deal that meant he had a no compete clause for the entirety of the contract he’d terminated when he left for the NFL in 2004. WWE ended up settling out of court once they realized they were gonna lose the case.
They just bank on talent won't challenge this because the fact they can just keep anybody who might try to challenge them on it wrapped up in years of red tape, eventually leaving them incapable of financing the court case. So talent just waits out no competes or contracts etc because it's shorter and cheaper.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Oct 2, 2020 16:43:47 GMT -5
Paige would get pretty seriously f***ed by this if it goes through, I sometimes wonder if WWE money people saw the amount of money people like Ninja got paid and thought "we want some of that pie" Oh yeah on an individual level, the money here isn't insignificant at all, and for someone like Paige, and I'm glad she's found new footing. But each individual is not bringing anything to the table that's particularly huge by itself. WWE wants to wring that money from everyone as a whole. But I don't think Ninja himself factors into it; this is Vince deciding to control people and f*** them over, he doesn't understand this world. He's just had it explained to him and figures he can do whatever he wants. It's about control and making the most money possible off talent like cattle. Supposedly they were also mad that AJ Styles kid said WWE wasn't cool so they want to control stuff like that. |
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tenshi
Patti Mayonnaise
Probably more memorable than a Charlotte title reign
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Post by tenshi on Oct 2, 2020 16:45:42 GMT -5
In order to lighten things up, I wonder how a game of Among Us with Vince, Shane, Stephanie, Triple H and other figureheads would play out.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Oct 2, 2020 16:47:53 GMT -5
I’m really sorry for bringing this back up again and again and again...
If this was about control and worrying about what might be said...where the f*** is WWE’s social media policy? Hell, I’ve seen tweets worse than, like 99% of anything any wrestler has said on Twitch and have made WWE look like absolute goobers for not stepping in at any point in time.
Like, for a company so adamant about narrative control, that stuff is super glaring to me.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Oct 2, 2020 16:50:35 GMT -5
I’m really sorry for bringing this back up again and again and again... If this was about control and worrying about what might be said...where the f*** is WWE’s social media policy? Hell, I’ve seen tweets worse than, like 99% of anything any wrestler has said on Twitch and have made WWE look like absolute goobers for not stepping in at any point in time. Like, for a company so adamant about narrative control, that stuff is super glaring to me. They say it when it's convenient, I think they do it because they always get away with jerking talent around. How many times in the last 3 years have we heard talent is livid about something? And then nothing happens, they're all either to scared to say something or working there is their dream or it's the money but either way nothing ever changes so why wouldn't the WWE keep pushing? |
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Oct 2, 2020 16:53:19 GMT -5
I’m really sorry for bringing this back up again and again and again... If this was about control and worrying about what might be said...where the f*** is WWE’s social media policy? Hell, I’ve seen tweets worse than, like 99% of anything any wrestler has said on Twitch and have made WWE look like absolute goobers for not stepping in at any point in time. Like, for a company so adamant about narrative control, that stuff is super glaring to me. They say it when it's convenient, I think they do it because they always get away with jerking talent around. How many times in the last 3 years have we heard talent is livid about something? And then nothing happens, they're all either to scared to say something or working there is their dream or it's the money but either way nothing ever changes so why wouldn't the WWE keep pushing? Which I get but you’d think that a service where many a wrestler has stepped their foot into it and caused a ruckus online, you’d think someone would step in and say “Don’t tweet about this, don’t respond to trolls, don’t break kayfabe” whatever it is. Like, I absolutely don’t want it to be draconian but I’ve seen some shitty tweets from people who should know better and as they represent WWE, it basically says they approve of them which doesn’t exactly say well for them as a company. |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Oct 2, 2020 16:56:58 GMT -5
They say it when it's convenient, I think they do it because they always get away with jerking talent around. How many times in the last 3 years have we heard talent is livid about something? And then nothing happens, they're all either to scared to say something or working there is their dream or it's the money but either way nothing ever changes so why wouldn't the WWE keep pushing? Which I get but you’d think that a service where many a wrestler has stepped their foot into it and caused a ruckus online, you’d think someone would step in and say “Don’t tweet about this, don’t respond to trolls, don’t break kayfabe” whatever it is. Like, I absolutely don’t want it to be draconian but I’ve seen some shitty tweets from people who should know better and as they represent WWE, it basically says they approve of them which doesn’t exactly say well for them as a company. They must not think there's any money to be made on twitter. WWE talent really needs to stop letting themselves be pushed around but we're in the generation of people who grew up wanting to be WWE wrestlers so they eat shit for their dream. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Oct 2, 2020 17:07:15 GMT -5
I’m really sorry for bringing this back up again and again and again... If this was about control and worrying about what might be said...where the f*** is WWE’s social media policy? Hell, I’ve seen tweets worse than, like 99% of anything any wrestler has said on Twitch and have made WWE look like absolute goobers for not stepping in at any point in time. Like, for a company so adamant about narrative control, that stuff is super glaring to me. Conduct has never been WWE's concern. Vince bought off a bunch of cops over a murder investigation. The kind of control WWE wants is ownership; it doesn't matter if you say the n word while playing Call of Duty as long as your playing Call of Duty is something WWE has direct financial control over and can leverage to make sure you're not allowed to build a presence online that is bigger than they allow you to have. Nothing about this is to protect the brand, it's a hilarious smokescreen I'm surprised people have fallen for so much in the ongoing coverage of this story. |
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 2, 2020 17:12:07 GMT -5
I’m really sorry for bringing this back up again and again and again... If this was about control and worrying about what might be said...where the f*** is WWE’s social media policy? Hell, I’ve seen tweets worse than, like 99% of anything any wrestler has said on Twitch and have made WWE look like absolute goobers for not stepping in at any point in time. Like, for a company so adamant about narrative control, that stuff is super glaring to me. Usually when a wrestler or former wrestler under WWE contract vomits a hot take on the issues of the day, it's usually something in line with Vince's world view. They're never going to punish anyone for that. |
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Feyrhausen
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Feyrhausen on Oct 2, 2020 17:12:35 GMT -5
I have started my WWE boycott. I haven't really bought any merchandise for awhile so really watching NXT on Hulu is all I was doing. It's not much but it's all I can do.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 2, 2020 17:12:42 GMT -5
From Andrew Yang's Twitter: "Hearing from talent that WWE is forcing performers to sign new contracts that include twitch. Streaming on twitch will become a work obligation and if talent doesn’t stream they will forego earnings, be suspended or face penalties. Doesn’t sound like independent contractors." Yeah, there's no way this doesn't bite WWE in the ass when it comes to certain talents contracts eventually expiring. WWE's beginning to become a company where you simply cannot have fun and cannot have a normal life. You have to do everything for them with no say and be absolutely miserable in doing so, and I have to imagine this is a straw breaking moment for a lot of wrestlers who have gotten big on Twitch and also realize they do not need this company or their dumb bullshit anymore. As I said it's gonna be ironic that video games might be something that deals a bigger blow to WWE than the damn Saudi incident, but Vince clearly does not know how talent, and does not understand how stupid this really is. |
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Fade on Oct 2, 2020 17:12:54 GMT -5
Oh yeah on an individual level, the money here isn't insignificant at all, and for someone like Paige, and I'm glad she's found new footing. But each individual is not bringing anything to the table that's particularly huge by itself. WWE wants to wring that money from everyone as a whole. But I don't think Ninja himself factors into it; this is Vince deciding to control people and f*** them over, he doesn't understand this world. He's just had it explained to him and figures he can do whatever he wants. It's about control and making the most money possible off talent like cattle. Supposedly they were also mad that AJ Styles kid said WWE wasn't cool so they want to control stuff like that. On a lighter note, of the clips I saw posted on squaredcircle, AJs kid is adorable. I think AJ was explaining how Rusev was going to AEW and Lana was staying in WWE and AJs kid bewilderingly asks “... But why??”. And what made it even funnier to me was AJ, god bless him, responds with the gist of “why?..why wouldn’t they? That’s normal.....dumbass”. I added the dumbass part. As for all the talk of wrestlers sucking it up cause it’s their “dream job”..I dunno. I dunno if it’s as much that as much as it’s good money, it’s the top wrestling company in the world, a lot currently there have some semblance of “job safety” (whatever that means in wwe land) and especially in these uncertain times, you want to hold on to your job. Someone mentioned it before but AEW, New Japan, ROH, Impact! ain’t gonna be able to hire everyone and I have no idea how or in what state the independents are in right now. Edit: As I said it's gonna be ironic that video games might be something that deals a bigger blow to WWE than the damn Saudi incident, but Vince clearly does not know how talent, and does not understand how stupid this really is. I was thinking this earlier, I’m so unfamiliar with it, but imagine if it’s some video game thing that finally unfurls the independent contractor thing lol |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Oct 2, 2020 17:13:53 GMT -5
From Andrew Yang's Twitter: "Hearing from talent that WWE is forcing performers to sign new contracts that include twitch. Streaming on twitch will become a work obligation and if talent doesn’t stream they will forego earnings, be suspended or face penalties. Doesn’t sound like independent contractors." Yeah, there's no way this doesn't bite WWE in the ass when it comes to certain talents contracts eventually expiring. WWE's beginning to become a company where you simply cannot have fun and cannot have a normal life. You have to do everything for them with no say and be absolutely miserable in doing so, and I have to imagine this is a straw breaking moment for a lot of wrestlers who have gotten big on Twitch and also realize they do not need this company or their dumb bullshit anymore. As I said it's gonna be ironic that video games might be something that deals a bigger blow to WWE than the damn Saudi incident, but Vince clearly does not know how talent, and does not understand how stupid this really is. I think you are underestimating how many people there would eat a plate of shit to keep that job because it's their lifelong goal. |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,236
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Post by Mecca on Oct 2, 2020 17:15:29 GMT -5
It's about control and making the most money possible off talent like cattle. Supposedly they were also mad that AJ Styles kid said WWE wasn't cool so they want to control stuff like that. On a lighter note, of the clips I saw posted on squaredcircle, AJs kid is adorable. I think AJ was explaining how Rusev was going to AEW and Lana was staying in WWE and AJs kid bewilderingly asks “... But why??”. And what made it even funnier to me was AJ, god bless him, responds with the gist of “why?..why wouldn’t they? That’s normal.....dumbass”. I added the dumbass part. As for all the talk of wrestlers sucking it up cause it’s their “dream job”..I dunno. I dunno if it’s as much that as much as it’s good money, it’s the top wrestling company in the world, a lot currently there have some semblance of “job safety” (whatever that means in wwe land) and especially in these uncertain times, you want to hold on to your job. Someone mentioned it before but AEW, New Japan, ROH, Impact! ain’t gonna be able to hire everyone and I have no idea how or in what state the independents are in right now. I get that point but a lot of the talent now literally grew up with their being 1 game in town, the WWE roster continually eats shit because they have been groomed since they were children that this is the place you wanna be if you do this. |
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Post by boliv84 on Oct 2, 2020 17:25:56 GMT -5
Fightful Select (via 411) has some news about this too. Nonsurprisingly it seems things will be the same about Cameo.
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