Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,905
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Oct 19, 2020 0:24:35 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan was doing the gimmick he was doing in the AWA. WWF and Vince spent a lot of time taking top talent from all the territories and putting them together. Roddy Piper was already over, Junkyard Dog was already over, Ricky Steamboat. So Hogan was just placed into situations like MTV and Cyndi Lauper, and talk shows, and became an icon. But that wasn't Vince's booking, and Hogan wasn't a Vince creation. So when he found his "next guy", he did what he thought would make him the next guy. But it didn't work. So of course it's a combination ot fans and Hogan still being big, but it's because Vince's creativity is overrated. Personally, Warrior worked as IC champion,but then after he won the title, they booked him like Hogan. He started having less makeup, smiling, doing the things Vince thought a World champion needed to do. Altho WWF did their revisionist history, Warrior was SUPPPERRR over when he was a mentally ill savage who's promos made no sense. That's the guy who got pops, not smily normalish guy. If they'd kept him crazy, and gave him someone worth being crazy against, it would have worked. They did the same with Warrior. He was in that music video with Phil Collins.
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Post by lildude8218 on Oct 19, 2020 0:50:07 GMT -5
It didn't help matters that Warrior faced Rude on Saturday Night's Main Event only a few weeks before Summerslam. It should have been literally any other heel that night.
Then immediately after Summerslam he starts doing 6-man tags around the horn with LOD against all 3 members of Demolition. Not exactly something that's gonna draw huge numbers really.
Meanwhile on TV he's refusing to give Randy Savage a title shot but then what's the match that's headlining all the house shows? Warrior vs. Savage with basically zero heat now because their program consisted of Warrior just saying no but then facing him anyway.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,905
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Oct 19, 2020 1:14:00 GMT -5
It didn't help matters that Warrior faced Rude on Saturday Night's Main Event only a few weeks before Summerslam. It should have been literally any other heel that night. Then immediately after Summerslam he starts doing 6-man tags around the horn with LOD against all 3 members of Demolition. Not exactly something that's gonna draw huge numbers really. Meanwhile on TV he's refusing to give Randy Savage a title shot but then what's the match that's headlining all the house shows? Warrior vs. Savage with basically zero heat now because their program consisted of Warrior just saying no but then facing him anyway. Was their out on that they were all non-title?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2020 3:23:41 GMT -5
It didn't help matters that Warrior faced Rude on Saturday Night's Main Event only a few weeks before Summerslam. It should have been literally any other heel that night. Then immediately after Summerslam he starts doing 6-man tags around the horn with LOD against all 3 members of Demolition. Not exactly something that's gonna draw huge numbers really. Meanwhile on TV he's refusing to give Randy Savage a title shot but then what's the match that's headlining all the house shows? Warrior vs. Savage with basically zero heat now because their program consisted of Warrior just saying no but then facing him anyway. Was their out on that they were all non-title? On TV in the build to the Rumble the announcers really put over the fact that Savage could win the title before then and if it happened Warrior/Slaughter would be non title with Savage in the rumble match as champion.
Gorilla even brings up on air Savage already having his chance to win the title from Warrior which would confuse anyone that was in an area that didn't get the match.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 19, 2020 3:43:58 GMT -5
It is one of those weird things where in terms of "overness", it was the right time to put the title on Warrior but character work was nowhere near enough to sustain him as champ
If this was WCW Rick Rude, instead of the WWF version trying to break into the main event, you would had intrigue. Their IC title feud was great but it was a big step for both to do it over the WWF title. Add on that Earthquake/Warrior was just a hotter program
It is one of those things where not much could been done outside a few diff booking decisions
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auph10imitated
Dennis Stamp
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Post by auph10imitated on Oct 19, 2020 3:55:18 GMT -5
Yes they still wanted to see Hulk, but that isnt the reason Warrior flopped. They still wanted to see Andre as an attraction when Hulk came in.
There just wasnt enough strong heel challengers at that point to build big storylines for Warrior.
Hogan came in at a time when he had leftovers who were still in the WWF and also aload of new signings coming in.
Lets compare:
Iron Sheik - The person he took the title from so they could promote rematches, Warrior didnt have that option Roddy Piper - Hot fresh new heel to build almost equally to Hogan from the off Paul Orndorff - Tied to Piper, became a big heel in his own right The Samoans, Don Muroco, Tiger Chung Lee, Dr D, Adrian Adonis, Bob Orton - All known and capable mid card heels to throw at him Big John Studd & King Kong Bundy - Monster heels
Thats all from 84-85.
Now look at 1990.
Rick Rude - Yes he could get a great match out of Hogan but Warrior had beaten him Mr Perfect - Same could get a good match but was never a serious threat Ted Dibiase - Same as Perfect Earthquake - Probably the only real new threat but they gave him to Hogan Randy Savage - Most notable fued
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,900
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Post by Sephiroth on Oct 19, 2020 7:13:20 GMT -5
1. As others have said, they never built a solid heel to challenge Warrior
2. Once they made him champion his shortcomings got painfully exposed (why does that sound familiar?)
3. Even when he was champion, he was still booked as #2 to Hogan and never really worked the top of the card.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Oct 19, 2020 8:38:25 GMT -5
It’s the problem WWE has always experienced. Unless they do 2+ year runs, they don’t know how to book babyface champs.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 19, 2020 8:40:12 GMT -5
I think it’s pretty straightforward that while Warrior was massively over in-arena, he was still not at Hogan’s level as a draw and so Hogan’s house shows would have outdrawn Warrior’s even if it was Warrior-Earthquake headlining one and Hogan-Rude on the other.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Oct 19, 2020 9:16:49 GMT -5
Warrior had some bad feuds, but Hogan drew huge with Kamala, Orndorf(putting him here because like Rude, it was a feud that happened already) and Bundy.
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Post by dirtyoldman on Oct 19, 2020 9:17:16 GMT -5
I think it’s pretty straightforward that while Warrior was massively over in-arena, he was still not at Hogan’s level as a draw and so Hogan’s house shows would have outdrawn Warrior’s even if it was Warrior-Earthquake headlining one and Hogan-Rude on the other. Something I was wondering about US house shows back then, I take it the main event and wrestlers attending was advertised so people knew what they were getting? So people wouldn't just go to the show because it was WWF but because of the card.
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Post by Jumpin' Jesse Walsh on Oct 19, 2020 9:23:33 GMT -5
Whenever I watch anything from this period, it never really feels like Warrior is THE guy; that role still seems like it belongs to Hogan.
It was a good time to put the belt on him, but as the face of the company? It would’ve been hard to do that without seriously altering or watering down everything that got him over in the first place.
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Post by polarbearpete on Oct 19, 2020 11:02:48 GMT -5
I think it’s pretty straightforward that while Warrior was massively over in-arena, he was still not at Hogan’s level as a draw and so Hogan’s house shows would have outdrawn Warrior’s even if it was Warrior-Earthquake headlining one and Hogan-Rude on the other. Something I was wondering about US house shows back then, I take it the main event and wrestlers attending was advertised so people knew what they were getting? So people wouldn't just go to the show because it was WWF but because of the card. Yes a lot of the cards, especially the main events would be advertised. The syndicated shows would be tailored to the market they were airing in so that the wrestlers would cut studio promos about the matches that were coming up at that area’s house show.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on Oct 19, 2020 11:07:51 GMT -5
Something I was wondering about US house shows back then, I take it the main event and wrestlers attending was advertised so people knew what they were getting? So people wouldn't just go to the show because it was WWF but because of the card. Yes a lot of the cards, especially the main events would be advertised. The syndicated shows would be tailored to the market they were airing in so that the wrestlers would cut studio promos about the matches that were coming up at that area’s house show. Now that you mention it, Conrad mentioned on the podcast last week that Meltzer reported in October 1990 that the company was having more customized Event Center promos in an attempt to boost attendance. They had gotten away from that and just had Sean Mooney's segments be customized while the wrestlers' parts were generic. They continued to have generic and customized promos for years after that. I remember a 1993 Jerry Lawler promo in the Face-to-Face segment where he kept saying "in this town" or "in this city" since the same promo was going to air everywhere.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Oct 19, 2020 11:14:05 GMT -5
So if the fans just wanted to see Hogan no matter what and Warrior needed a program with the top heel, why not have Earthquake crush Warrior and have Rude challenge Hogan instead? My thinking is Earthquake as the monster heel had the right amount of heat for a feud in lieu of a title. Warrior had the title for the basis of his feuds.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2020 11:47:44 GMT -5
There wasn't really any strong heels for Warrior to go against after beating Hogan. The only real logical challenger for him was Rick Rude, and that's only because Rude was the only person to ever beat him. In recent years I've seen people say that the WWF title was "downgraded" to a IC-level status because both Warrior & Rude had done their big feud already over that belt. For years though, I saw it more as an elevation of both - in particular it made a bigger heel out of Rude because now he was going up for THE WWF title (and that absolutely continued into WCW as Rude was booked huge there, and rightfully so). And that Rude basically went back down a notch to being a Bossman feud right afterward (until he left in October-November) was maybe not the best idea.
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Post by dangerousdanpotato on Oct 19, 2020 12:42:56 GMT -5
Warrior definitely toned it down during this reign as they tried to humanise him a bit. Check out this promo ahead of his defence against DiBiase: www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5W1YoLvK3M
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Post by nickcave on Oct 19, 2020 13:06:57 GMT -5
The funny thing is now that Bruce is back working for WWE and Ultimate Warrior is seen as a legacy character not to be tarnished he has to come up with a bunch of excuses whereas before he would have just said "Warrior was terrible and that's why" because Prichard does not like him lol
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Oct 19, 2020 13:11:58 GMT -5
Thing is, Warrior was the no 1 draw in the company before and after his time as WWF Champion.
In fiscal year 1989, the houseshows Warrior headlined pulled in larger audiences and merchandise than Hogan. This has been stated by Bruce and Warrior himself in the key decision for Vince to make WM6 happen.
Afterwards, his programme with Taker was drawing bigger houses than Hogan's programme with Slaughter in 1991 on the A and B houseshow circuits.
Warrior could do exceptional business when he's not the top champion and not around Hulk Hogan.
Moreover WWF failed whenever they tried to make the next Hogan - in Warrior, in Luger and in extent in Diesel.
If they let Warrior be Warrior and lined up intriguing feuds like in 1989 and 1991 in 1990, he would have had a much better run.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,955
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Post by chazraps on Oct 19, 2020 14:54:10 GMT -5
I think we're all forgetting to blame one man: Richard Jewell.
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