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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 21, 2020 0:57:40 GMT -5
It didn't really make sense character-wise for him to be that goofy Goldberg himself wasn't goofy or silly in the segment. Golddust put the wig on and Goldberg told him that if he ever did anything like that again he'd murder him. That was like the entire segment. People put way too much stock into that segment If Goldberg can’t survive putting a wig on then his character ain’t shit anyway. All it was internally was can Goldberg “play ball”. It was harmless at end of the day
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Oct 21, 2020 2:35:35 GMT -5
The funny thing about the Fingerpoke of Doom was that was also the night Tony Schiavone gave away that Mick Foley was going to win the WWF Championship with the infamous "butts in the seats" comment. I watched before Nitro and Raw regularly, but Nitro tended to have priority until that night. The combination of Foley being a favorite of mine and the absolute idiocy of the Fingerpoke made Raw my main wrestling fix for Monday nights. The continued decline of WCW's quality in 1999 and especially 2000 drove me away from WCW entirely and I mostly watched just WWF from that point on. Though sometimes I was curious to see what was going on in WCW and one unfortunate night I caught a glimpse of the Oklahoma character. and I think that's more why people point to the finger poke of doom... while it was not THE killshot of the company A lot of people did watch both and then swap their priorities. not to mention the retroactive sign that WWE were making new stars and WCW would continue to stick with the same people on top that have been for years make it a good marking post....
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Phosphor Glow
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Post by Phosphor Glow on Oct 21, 2020 3:10:17 GMT -5
This is probably just a personal bias thing, but I remember everyone treating Zack Ryder winning the IC title at Wrestlemania 32 as this big incredible thing and honestly that ending deflated me a lot. He seems like a very nice guy but I was just never into him at all. Maybe it's because I only watched a few episodes of his webshow but like...I dunno. I just never liked him and I was hoping for literally anyone else to win that match.
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Glitch
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Watching you.
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Post by Glitch on Oct 21, 2020 3:46:47 GMT -5
WWE loves to say that DX and the tank turned the tide in the Monday night wars --- it didn't do shit I barely remember seeing it all these years later Hell, you could almost argue that the Bullet Club invasion of Raw had a bigger impact on wrestling than the dx one. That at least led to more eyeballs on The Elite and fed into their rise to fame. The Dx invasion was just another skit in the attitude era.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 21, 2020 4:26:28 GMT -5
Kofi Kingston's WWE Title run was terrible.
The win? Perfect moment. Not talking about the win. He got a longer reign yes which is how I've seen it defended by some people, but that reign was comprised of Dolph Ziggler and Randy Orton feuds and culminated in him getting murdered by Lesnar in seconds, forgotten about as a main eventer instantly, and broom swept back to the midcard, where he still is today.
Again, the moment is one of the most feel good moments of any WrestleMania ever, the win and match? Well deserved. Everything after that was boring or sluggishly booked, giving him opponents like Ziggler and Orton for months was not a good way to build him up. Yes the Orton feud should have happened, but it went TOO LONG, which is a huge Randy Orton booking issue we're even seeing play out in 2020 with McIntyre where the shit just doesn't end.
The ending to his reign with Brock was also just a slap in the face, absolutely no reason it had to happen. For Tito f***ing Ortiz getting smacked in Saudi Arabia? F*** off Vince.
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Post by Viking Hall on Oct 21, 2020 4:42:31 GMT -5
This isn't really a singular event, but I often see 1997 WWF praised as one of the best years in company history. While it's true the second half of the year was very good, the first 4-6 months, even with the Austin/Bret double switch, is some of the consistently worst TV the company ever produced. And it really sticks out when you see how good WCW was during that time. WWE likes to talk about how WCW was winning with dirty tactics and overspending, but the truth is WCW from mid 1996 through mid 1997 was miles ahead of WWF in terms of quality. It's not even close. I'm currently watching all of the 1997 PPV's as it was the year before I started watching wrestling properly and in turn I've only ever seen the big moments. I can confirm that it's been a rough start.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 21, 2020 5:10:12 GMT -5
Kofi Kingston's WWE Title run was terrible. The win? Perfect moment. Not talking about the win. He got a longer reign yes which is how I've seen it defended by some people, but that reign was comprised of Dolph Ziggler and Randy Orton feuds and culminated in him getting murdered by Lesnar in seconds, forgotten about as a main eventer instantly, and broom swept back to the midcard, where he still is today. Again, the moment is one of the most feel good moments of any WrestleMania ever, the win and match? Well deserved. Everything after that was boring or sluggishly booked, giving him opponents like Ziggler and Orton for months was not a good way to build him up. Yes the Orton feud should have happened, but it went TOO LONG, which is a huge Randy Orton booking issue we're even seeing play out in 2020 with McIntyre where the shit just doesn't end. The ending to his reign with Brock was also just a slap in the face, absolutely no reason it had to happen. For Tito f***ing Ortiz getting smacked in Saudi Arabia? F*** off Vince. That's cap What's overblown is the reaction to his loss and trying to erase him as champ. People conveniently forget he defended the title often and how much of a fighting champ he was. He beat AJ, KO, Daniel Bryan etc Him holding the title for 6 months was 3 months longer then I expected but i'm def tired of this rhetoric where that L tainted his whole title run.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Oct 21, 2020 5:44:40 GMT -5
Kofi Kingston's WWE Title run was terrible. The win? Perfect moment. Not talking about the win. He got a longer reign yes which is how I've seen it defended by some people, but that reign was comprised of Dolph Ziggler and Randy Orton feuds and culminated in him getting murdered by Lesnar in seconds, forgotten about as a main eventer instantly, and broom swept back to the midcard, where he still is today. Again, the moment is one of the most feel good moments of any WrestleMania ever, the win and match? Well deserved. Everything after that was boring or sluggishly booked, giving him opponents like Ziggler and Orton for months was not a good way to build him up. Yes the Orton feud should have happened, but it went TOO LONG, which is a huge Randy Orton booking issue we're even seeing play out in 2020 with McIntyre where the shit just doesn't end. The ending to his reign with Brock was also just a slap in the face, absolutely no reason it had to happen. For Tito f***ing Ortiz getting smacked in Saudi Arabia? F*** off Vince. That's cap What's overblown is the reaction to his loss and trying to erase him as champ. People conveniently forget he defended the title often and how much of a fighting champ he was. He beat AJ, KO, Daniel Bryan etc Him holding the title for 6 months was 3 months longer then I expected but i'm def tired of this rhetoric where that L tainted his whole title run. I never said the L tainted the whole run, I just thought a majority of his run was pretty terrible as a whole. It doesn't erase him as champ by any means, but the run felt underwhelming to me and the ending especially felt very "WWE, you like something? We crush it" of them.
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Ben Wyatt
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Oct 21, 2020 5:52:20 GMT -5
Kofi Kingston's WWE Title run was terrible. The win? Perfect moment. Not talking about the win. He got a longer reign yes which is how I've seen it defended by some people, but that reign was comprised of Dolph Ziggler and Randy Orton feuds and culminated in him getting murdered by Lesnar in seconds, forgotten about as a main eventer instantly, and broom swept back to the midcard, where he still is today. Again, the moment is one of the most feel good moments of any WrestleMania ever, the win and match? Well deserved. Everything after that was boring or sluggishly booked, giving him opponents like Ziggler and Orton for months was not a good way to build him up. Yes the Orton feud should have happened, but it went TOO LONG, which is a huge Randy Orton booking issue we're even seeing play out in 2020 with McIntyre where the shit just doesn't end. The ending to his reign with Brock was also just a slap in the face, absolutely no reason it had to happen. For Tito f***ing Ortiz getting smacked in Saudi Arabia? F*** off Vince. That's cap What's overblown is the reaction to his loss and trying to erase him as champ. People conveniently forget he defended the title often and how much of a fighting champ he was. He beat AJ, KO, Daniel Bryan etc Him holding the title for 6 months was 3 months longer then I expected but i'm def tired of this rhetoric where that L tainted his whole title run. I really kinda dug the Orton feud and the callback to 2008.
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Post by chronocross on Oct 21, 2020 5:56:47 GMT -5
I'm gonna scroll through this thread so I'm writing this now before I check - 1997-2001 WWF. Agreed. In the match Hurricane was clearly outmatched but he put up a hell of a fight and never gave up. If he had lost it would have been the definition of looking good in defeat. I mean Rock was a legend and Hurricane was a low card cruiserweight. He got all the offense he should have. JRs commentary made that match. Didn't Triple H squash Hurricane the week after? I see that mentioned a lot. It wasn't really a squash, Hurricane got some offense in and a few near falls but Triple-H won in the end.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 21, 2020 5:58:47 GMT -5
That's cap What's overblown is the reaction to his loss and trying to erase him as champ. People conveniently forget he defended the title often and how much of a fighting champ he was. He beat AJ, KO, Daniel Bryan etc Him holding the title for 6 months was 3 months longer then I expected but i'm def tired of this rhetoric where that L tainted his whole title run. I really kinda dug the Orton feud and the callback to 2008. The feud itself was fine but like a lot of things in WWE they dragged it. Kofi was a confident champion and him calling out Orton as the person he needed to defeat was a smart move It def mirrors the McIntyre feud now where it is going on a month too long because they need to kill time
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2020 12:17:35 GMT -5
This isn't really a singular event, but I often see 1997 WWF praised as one of the best years in company history. While it's true the second half of the year was very good, the first 4-6 months, even with the Austin/Bret double switch, is some of the consistently worst TV the company ever produced. And it really sticks out when you see how good WCW was during that time. WWE likes to talk about how WCW was winning with dirty tactics and overspending, but the truth is WCW from mid 1996 through mid 1997 was miles ahead of WWF in terms of quality. It's not even close. Undertaker was champion for a good part of 1997, yet nobody talks about that title reign for good reason; a lot of those matches sucked. Besides the novelty of him facing Austin at A Cold Day in Hell, most of his opponents were the definition of "filler"; Faarooq, Vader, even Mankind could be viewed as a filler opponent.
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mattyy
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Post by mattyy on Oct 21, 2020 12:38:16 GMT -5
I did a rewatch of 1999 during my quarantine from work for a month. In all honesty, and it could be just because it is hindsight and I didn't start watching until two years later, but I didn't hate the finger poke of doom. It was a way to merge the nWo and to no longer have any in fighting that the Wolfpack split brought along.
The moment in my rewatch where I stopped caring for WCW over RAW was the night Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were talking about how many times Undertaker and Stone Cold wrestled each other. I don't give a shit about two wrestlers on the other channel if I'm watching Nitro.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Oct 21, 2020 14:44:25 GMT -5
This is probably just a personal bias thing, but I remember everyone treating Zack Ryder winning the IC title at Wrestlemania 32 as this big incredible thing and honestly that ending deflated me a lot. He seems like a very nice guy but I was just never into him at all. Maybe it's because I only watched a few episodes of his webshow but like...I dunno. I just never liked him and I was hoping for literally anyone else to win that match. For me I just never got in to the whole "You MUST cheer for this guy because he works really hard and really wants it!" thing, because you could say the same thing about... most of the roster. Like I get the everyman trope, but Ryder never gave me that vibe.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Oct 21, 2020 14:50:00 GMT -5
Kofi Kingston's WWE Title run was terrible. The win? Perfect moment. Not talking about the win. He got a longer reign yes which is how I've seen it defended by some people, but that reign was comprised of Dolph Ziggler and Randy Orton feuds and culminated in him getting murdered by Lesnar in seconds, forgotten about as a main eventer instantly, and broom swept back to the midcard, where he still is today. Again, the moment is one of the most feel good moments of any WrestleMania ever, the win and match? Well deserved. Everything after that was boring or sluggishly booked, giving him opponents like Ziggler and Orton for months was not a good way to build him up. Yes the Orton feud should have happened, but it went TOO LONG, which is a huge Randy Orton booking issue we're even seeing play out in 2020 with McIntyre where the shit just doesn't end. The ending to his reign with Brock was also just a slap in the face, absolutely no reason it had to happen. For Tito f***ing Ortiz getting smacked in Saudi Arabia? F*** off Vince. That's cap What's overblown is the reaction to his loss and trying to erase him as champ. People conveniently forget he defended the title often and how much of a fighting champ he was. He beat AJ, KO, Daniel Bryan etc Him holding the title for 6 months was 3 months longer then I expected but i'm def tired of this rhetoric where that L tainted his whole title run. While it doesn't erase the whole run, there definitely was this impending doom-y feeling of "Oh look, here comes Brock to ruin everything again." Brock getting to f*** off with the title to go be The Backwoodsman and do f***-all else was the WWE status-quo at the point, and tired as all hell. It doesn't cheapen Kofi's win, but it was definitely "Oh, instead of branching out into something new, we're back to the same old shit.".
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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Oct 22, 2020 5:26:59 GMT -5
This isn't really a singular event, but I often see 1997 WWF praised as one of the best years in company history. While it's true the second half of the year was very good, the first 4-6 months, even with the Austin/Bret double switch, is some of the consistently worst TV the company ever produced. And it really sticks out when you see how good WCW was during that time. WWE likes to talk about how WCW was winning with dirty tactics and overspending, but the truth is WCW from mid 1996 through mid 1997 was miles ahead of WWF in terms of quality. It's not even close. Undertaker was champion for a good part of 1997, yet nobody talks about that title reign for good reason; a lot of those matches sucked. Besides the novelty of him facing Austin at A Cold Day in Hell, most of his opponents were the definition of "filler"; Faarooq, Vader, even Mankind could be viewed as a filler opponent. The match against Mankind was a banger though, so that can be overlooked. Of course it's Taker and Foley in a proper match, the Hell in a Cell match may have been their worst one on one match. I did a rewatch of 1999 during my quarantine from work for a month. In all honesty, and it could be just because it is hindsight and I didn't start watching until two years later, but I didn't hate the finger poke of doom. It was a way to merge the nWo and to no longer have any in fighting that the Wolfpack split brought along. The moment in my rewatch where I stopped caring for WCW over RAW was the night Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were talking about how many times Undertaker and Stone Cold wrestled each other. I don't give a shit about two wrestlers on the other channel if I'm watching Nitro. The Fingerpoke may have worked, if they actually had Goldberg lay waste to the nWo till there was only Hogan left, and Goldberg destroyed him to take the title back. After a couple of months, when it became clear that wasn't the plan at all, it made the Fingerpoke that much worse.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 22, 2020 5:34:16 GMT -5
This is probably just a personal bias thing, but I remember everyone treating Zack Ryder winning the IC title at Wrestlemania 32 as this big incredible thing and honestly that ending deflated me a lot. He seems like a very nice guy but I was just never into him at all. Maybe it's because I only watched a few episodes of his webshow but like...I dunno. I just never liked him and I was hoping for literally anyone else to win that match. I kinda like Ryder and all, but for me, I'm of the opinion that, "Cool that he won, but also I am fine with how he lost it soon after".
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Oct 22, 2020 6:56:37 GMT -5
This is another personal bias one, possibly, but I never liked the CM Punk pipe bomb at all. I feel trying to present a top face as “only being a top champion because management likes them” the way Punk tried to undercuts their credibility too much.
The Cena character wasn’t in that position because he was a suck-up. In kayfabe, he was holding that belt because he was physically superior and tougher to his challengers at the time. So why couldn’t Punk have emphasized how tall an order he had instead? Cena at one point tapped him out quick before the Vegas promo. That should have been part of the story, with Punk vowing it wouldn’t happen again and he was going to beat the best to become the best himself.
That would have been way more hype than “I want ice cream bars and you kiss butt.”
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Post by Jake, The Jake, Jake on Oct 22, 2020 6:59:49 GMT -5
The Kanyon bump off the WCW Triple Cage at Slamboree 2000 was completely overblown. Yes the show took place in the same arena where Owen Hart fell to his death a year prior. This bump was in no way similar. Kanyon takes a standard flip bump onto a crash pad about ten feet below him. It was a big stunt to end the show on. The sort of thing that was a dime a dozen in 99 and 2000. More of a copy of Mick Foley’s Cell bump than anything. Don’t get me wrong; if WCW did the Human Torch match in that arena and had Sting sail off the Jumbotron in front of those people, then yeah, I can see the similarities and that would be pretty tasteless. The Kanyon bump is grasping at straws.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Oct 22, 2020 8:50:29 GMT -5
That entire Paul London and Brian Kendrick tag title run.
Those dudes had mediocre matches almost the entire time and weren’t over in the slightest but you listen to podcasts and fans and they act like their title run saved the division and breathed new life into Smackdown.
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