|
Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 24, 2020 10:07:42 GMT -5
*Yawn* It's another anti-Hogan politicking thread. The guy made bank, everyone that worked with him at his peak made bank & he acted the way that top guys in wrestling have acted for years. But because he didn't care about putting on ****+ classics night after night but rather drawing fans & getting pops with his routine he's the worst.
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Oct 24, 2020 10:27:39 GMT -5
*Yawn* It's another anti-Hogan politicking thread. The guy made bank, everyone that worked with him at his peak made bank & he acted the way that top guys in wrestling have acted for years. But because he didn't care about putting on ****+ classics night after night but rather drawing fans & getting pops with his routine he's the worst. *Yawn* It's another weird anti-anti-Hogan defense post. Two pages of thread happened, people talked about the selfish approach he took to creative control & the harm it dealt to Sting that left WCW burned for years. But because you like Hogan and don't care about reading the posts in the thread but rather setting up strawmen about match quality and junk this thread is bad.
|
|
petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
|
Post by petef3 on Oct 24, 2020 10:32:11 GMT -5
In fairness, a lot of the original options in the poll are BS. Hogan probably didn't do any "politicking" in the WWF at all until at least 1990 and maybe not really until '92-'93, because he didn't have to.
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Oct 24, 2020 11:03:11 GMT -5
*Yawn* It's another anti-Hogan politicking thread. The guy made bank, everyone that worked with him at his peak made bank & he acted the way that top guys in wrestling have acted for years. But because he didn't care about putting on ****+ classics night after night but rather drawing fans & getting pops with his routine he's the worst. *Yawn* It's another weird anti-anti-Hogan defense post. Two pages of thread happened, people talked about the selfish approach he took to creative control & the harm it dealt to Sting that left WCW burned for years. But because you like Hogan and don't care about reading the posts in the thread but rather setting up strawmen about match quality and junk this thread is bad. 1. The **** is a straw man as it was not discussed in this thread. I didn't need to add that. 2. I'm not gonna negate all of the choices one by one. For the record while I enjoy Hogan's matches because I have nostalgia for his run, I have no problem that regarding his personal character Hulk Hogan/Terry Bollea seems to be a POS. He's racist, he ratted out Ventura to the office for trying to Unionize the boys, etc. . That being said for a lot of the choices in this a sound & valid argument could be made why things were booked the way they were. I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but in most cases I can understand why things happened they way they did. 3. Hogan was a massive draw and had the clout because of that. After his drawing fell off WCW, deciding for the first time to go after a huge name. Without the merchandising & live gate revenue that Hogan was getting from WWF Turner had to give him a big guaranteed contract with incentives (limited dates,creative control..). It was a catch 22 for sure because w/o Hogan WCW never becomes #1 but maybe w/o the money invested in one person they can remain a distant regional #2 instead of being sold to Titan in 2001?
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 24, 2020 12:01:12 GMT -5
*Yawn* It's another anti-Hogan politicking thread. The guy made bank, everyone that worked with him at his peak made bank & he acted the way that top guys in wrestling have acted for years. But because he didn't care about putting on ****+ classics night after night but rather drawing fans & getting pops with his routine he's the worst. *Yawn* It's another weird anti-anti-Hogan defense post. Two pages of thread happened, people talked about the selfish approach he took to creative control & the harm it dealt to Sting that left WCW burned for years. But because you like Hogan and don't care about reading the posts in the thread but rather setting up strawmen about match quality and junk this thread is bad. Almost every top guy politics but just because you made bank doesn't mean you can do this shit for however long you want and it is negated because money was made Hogan cared about himself. Hogan openly admits his selfish faults. He wanted to be champ in WWF because he held Vince Jr to the fact the champ always gets the most money. Hogan no doubt was a draw but let's not act like he didn't burn money away either How is screwing over Sting going to help business? How did cutting short Macho Man moment at WW3 help business? How was making sure the camera is on him instead of Warrior at WM supposed to help business? To try to frame it like Hogan was only about business is a bold faced lie
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Oct 24, 2020 12:15:47 GMT -5
Starrcade 1997. It was the point I realised nobody was coming out of a feud with Hulk Hogan looking good.
A close second in my book was politicing to try and make the WWF use an injury ravaged Ed Leslie as his replacement, then when they baulked, went to WCW and had Ed Lesle become a main event heel. I watched at the tie and my reaction is still.. Just ugh.
|
|
|
Post by The Rick Jericho on Oct 24, 2020 17:41:17 GMT -5
If he got his way then returning at Survivor Series 2002 to beat Lesnar would be the answer. 50 year old Hogan being the first person to defeat Lesnar, after he had just beaten Rock clean and destroyed Undertaker in a cell, would have been worse than Goldberg returning to beat Fiend. Did he refuse to put over Orton? I thought Orton was set to win that match then he had one of his wellness/attitude issues and because the Hogan feud had already began instead of taking him off TV they just fined him and changed the finish of the match as their way of punishing him then put him in a midcard feud with Carlito. Hogan is so above anyone else at playing politics. He was so powerful he even managed to bury the Kliq one by one. He literally made Nash lay down and hand him the title, he made Hall his lackey in NWO Hollywood, he took the title from Triple H just a month after his big return and Wrestlemania win and he beat Shawn Michaels then got out of returning the favor like he was supposed to. Didn’t he convince Bischoff to fire XPac too in WCW? That’s why PAC cut a shoot promo when he came back in 1998. 5 for 5.
|
|
Cranjis McBasketball☝🏻
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,797
|
Post by Cranjis McBasketball☝🏻 on Oct 24, 2020 17:45:49 GMT -5
*Yawn* It's another weird anti-anti-Hogan defense post. Two pages of thread happened, people talked about the selfish approach he took to creative control & the harm it dealt to Sting that left WCW burned for years. But because you like Hogan and don't care about reading the posts in the thread but rather setting up strawmen about match quality and junk this thread is bad. 1. The **** is a straw man as it was not discussed in this thread. I didn't need to add that. 2. I'm not gonna negate all of the choices one by one. For the record while I enjoy Hogan's matches because I have nostalgia for his run, I have no problem that regarding his personal character Hulk Hogan/Terry Bollea seems to be a POS. He's racist, he ratted out Ventura to the office for trying to Unionize the boys, etc. . That being said for a lot of the choices in this a sound & valid argument could be made why things were booked the way they were. I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but in most cases I can understand why things happened they way they did. 3. Hogan was a massive draw and had the clout because of that. After his drawing fell off WCW, deciding for the first time to go after a huge name. Without the merchandising & live gate revenue that Hogan was getting from WWF Turner had to give him a big guaranteed contract with incentives (limited dates,creative control..). It was a catch 22 for sure because w/o Hogan WCW never becomes #1 but maybe w/o the money invested in one person they can remain a distant regional #2 instead of being sold to Titan in 2001? The only worse timeline to live in is one where DiBiase and Perfect won the title and then Hogan beat them. Imagine the never ending bitching then.
|
|
|
Post by The Thread Barbi on Oct 24, 2020 18:01:23 GMT -5
Other - making a song and dance about a young Undertaker damaging his neck with the Tombstone at Survivor Series 91.
Making Taker feel bad and then getting his win back 6 days later.
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,535
|
Post by cjh on Oct 24, 2020 18:08:36 GMT -5
If he got his way then returning at Survivor Series 2002 to beat Lesnar would be the answer. 50 year old Hogan being the first person to defeat Lesnar, after he had just beaten Rock clean and destroyed Undertaker in a cell, would have been worse than Goldberg returning to beat Fiend. Did he refuse to put over Orton? I thought Orton was set to win that match then he had one of his wellness/attitude issues and because the Hogan feud had already began instead of taking him off TV they just fined him and changed the finish of the match as their way of punishing him then put him in a midcard feud with Carlito. Hogan is so above anyone else at playing politics. He was so powerful he even managed to bury the Kliq one by one. He literally made Nash lay down and hand him the title, he made Hall his lackey in NWO Hollywood, he took the title from Triple H just a month after his big return and Wrestlemania win and he beat Shawn Michaels then got out of returning the favor like he was supposed to. Didn’t he convince Bischoff to fire XPac too in WCW? That’s why PAC cut a shoot promo when he came back in 1998. 5 for 5. Bischoff's side of the story is that he thought Waltman had agreed to terms on a contract extension, then Waltman's agent suddenly said Waltman wasn't signing yet in order to keep talks going (to try and get more money). That apparently got Bischoff pissed to the point that he just decided to fire Waltman. Hogan did make reference to Waltman in a segment with Kevin Nash on Thunder a few days before that Waltman promo on Raw.
|
|
chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,846
|
Post by chazraps on Oct 24, 2020 20:05:23 GMT -5
I wonder if Bischoff and Hogan are under some sort of curse where if they admit that they should have let Sting go over clean at Starrcade 97 they both dissolve into a pillar of salt.
|
|
|
Post by Nickybojelais on Oct 24, 2020 21:15:57 GMT -5
If Hogan got his way and went over HBK 3-0 in a 3 match series, that would have taken some beating. Some might say that it was unprofessional, but I was so happy that HBK made their match into a shambolic farce at Summerslam.
|
|
|
Post by Hypnosis on Oct 24, 2020 21:50:40 GMT -5
Didn’t he convince Bischoff to fire XPac too in WCW? That’s why PAC cut a shoot promo when he came back in 1998. 5 for 5. Bischoff's side of the story is that he thought Waltman had agreed to terms on a contract extension, then Waltman's agent suddenly said Waltman wasn't signing yet in order to keep talks going (to try and get more money). That apparently got Bischoff pissed to the point that he just decided to fire Waltman. Hogan did make reference to Waltman in a segment with Kevin Nash on Thunder a few days before that Waltman promo on Raw. I think Hogan's promo sounded something like:"It's not my fault that Syxx-Pac couldn't cut the mustard and run with the rest of the NWO." Which led to Waltman referencing the "cut the mustard" line in his WWF return.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 24, 2020 21:54:14 GMT -5
I wonder if Bischoff and Hogan are under some sort of curse where if they admit that they should have let Sting go over clean at Starrcade 97 they both dissolve into a pillar of salt. The funny thing is Hogan might actually admit to more shit then Bischoff but neither guy wants to cop to how bad of an idea that was The man didn't tan, so let's not give him the title.
|
|
XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,095
|
Post by XIII on Oct 24, 2020 21:57:14 GMT -5
As for the Starrcade/Sting deal: there were precisely two people in the world that thought that was a good idea. Hogan and Bischoff tanked an entire company with that one.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 24, 2020 22:00:52 GMT -5
In fairness, a lot of the original options in the poll are BS. Hogan probably didn't do any "politicking" in the WWF at all until at least 1990 and maybe not really until '92-'93, because he didn't have to. Ehh, Hogan knew how to play the game coming into WWF It isn't politicking but Vince Sr always paid the champs the most money and he held Vince Jr to that. on Stone Cold podcast he admits to having to "make deals" with people like Piper and others because they'd have to job to Hogan and they'd say f*** you i'm not doing it. To which Hogan would say well I will have to talk to Vince then cause this isn't my decision When putting over Warrior, giving the title to him wasn't a planned spot. Hogan did it on his own accord to get people to feel sorry for him cause he told Vince that he would put Warrior over but wanted to turn heel in the process but Vince said no
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,535
|
Post by cjh on Oct 24, 2020 22:07:33 GMT -5
I wonder if Bischoff and Hogan are under some sort of curse where if they admit that they should have let Sting go over clean at Starrcade 97 they both dissolve into a pillar of salt. The funny thing is Hogan might actually admit to more shit then Bischoff but neither guy wants to cop to how bad of an idea that was The man didn't tan, so let's not give him the title. They did give Sting the title. He won that match after it was re-started by Bret Hart. The original plan was for Sting to win in a squash, and when Hogan didn't want to do that, we got the finish that happened. It was a compromise because while Hogan changed his mind about allowing himself to get squashed, even he and Bischoff knew that Sting losing or Hogan keeping the title on a DQ loss wasn't an option, either.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Oct 24, 2020 22:12:25 GMT -5
The funny thing is Hogan might actually admit to more shit then Bischoff but neither guy wants to cop to how bad of an idea that was The man didn't tan, so let's not give him the title. They did give Sting the title. He won that match. The original plan was for Sting to win in a squash, and when Hogan didn't want to do that, we got the finish that happened. It was a compromise because while Hogan didn't want to get squashed, even he and Bischoff knew that Hogan winning or keeping the title on a DQ wasn't an option, either. You know what I meant by let's not give him the title It should been a squash, no questions asked. He couldn't even lose competently. The angle called for a big win and he muddied it as much as possible
|
|
cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,535
|
Post by cjh on Oct 24, 2020 22:31:32 GMT -5
They did give Sting the title. He won that match. The original plan was for Sting to win in a squash, and when Hogan didn't want to do that, we got the finish that happened. It was a compromise because while Hogan didn't want to get squashed, even he and Bischoff knew that Hogan winning or keeping the title on a DQ wasn't an option, either. You know what I meant by let's not give him the title It should been a squash, no questions asked. He couldn't even lose competently. The angle called for a big win and he muddied it as much as possible That was the original plan. Sting has confirmed that he was having personal issues in this era, and they apparently really surfaced when he was about to start wrestling on a regular basis again. They might have just taken him off TV under different circumstances, like if he had been in Lex Luger's spot and Luger/Hogan was the match with the year of build up rather than Sting/Hogan.
|
|
petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
|
Post by petef3 on Oct 24, 2020 22:41:26 GMT -5
Other - making a song and dance about a young Undertaker damaging his neck with the Tombstone at Survivor Series 91. Making Taker feel bad and then getting his win back 6 days later. I don't know what to make of this story but I'm actually inclined to believe Hogan on this one. Dave reported it as a 100% legitimate neck injury at the time, and the "Flair showed Undertaker that Hogan's head didn't hit the chair" thing smells of BS, since the reporting was categorically that Hogan didn't get the injury from the chair, but from Undertaker's knee jamming him in the head/neck. Hogan went to the hospital and couldn't even cut a go-home promo for Tuesday in Texas, resulting in Sean Mooney standing by himself telling us that Hogan would "do his talking in the ring." Passing up a promo to hype a PPV just to score some political point seems over-the-top even for Hogan, especially 1991 Hogan. But making up some crap to discredit Hogan during one of their tiffs does sound exactly like something WWE would do. As for Undertaker's title reign...forget it. There is no way in hell he was coming out of Tuesday in Texas as the champion, period. Best-case scenario is that the title gets held up there instead of Hogan winning it and it getting Dusty Finished later, but I think they had to go with the happy ending for the PPV after screwing over paying fans once already by turning a PPV into a 3-hour commercial for another PPV, back when that was almost unthinkable.
|
|