Any difference between Sharpshooter and S.C.D.??

[ronin705]

I was always under the impression that while Bret used his left leg for the sharpshooter, sting would roll right as being the difference between the two. Can anyone help calirfy this for me?

[Scooterdust]

Yes, you are actually correct. Bret would use his left for the Sharpshooter, and Sting would use his right leg for the Scorpion. Back when I was training, the right-handed found the Sharpshooter easier to do because they predominantly balanced on their stronger leg, wrapping our left leg and turning the right leg was easier than wrapping the right and trying to turn to the left, which ended up throwing people off-balance a lot more.

[Magic knows Black Lives Matter]

Oct 23, 2020 10:19:25 GMT -5 Scooterdust said:

Yes, you are actually correct. Bret would use his left for the Sharpshooter, and Sting would use his right leg for the Scorpion. Back when I was training, the right-handed found the Sharpshooter easier to do because they predominantly balanced on their stronger leg, wrapping our left leg and turning the right leg was easier than wrapping the right and trying to turn to the left, which ended up throwing people off-balance a lot more.

Thank you for sharing! Been wondering this and glad that I wasn’t tripping l, lol

[Fundertaker]

Oct 23, 2020 12:31:48 GMT -5 @adnonlkc said:

S.C.D.? Didn't Sting call it the "Scorpion Death Lock?"

Yup.

[CMWaters]

But what about the Reverse Figure Four?

[ronin705]

Oct 23, 2020 12:31:48 GMT -5 @adnonlkc said:

S.C.D.? Didn't Sting call it the "Scorpion Death Lock?"

I'm lazy even at typing 😂

[ronin705]

Oct 23, 2020 10:19:25 GMT -5 Scooterdust said:

Yes, you are actually correct. Bret would use his left for the Sharpshooter, and Sting would use his right leg for the Scorpion. Back when I was training, the right-handed found the Sharpshooter easier to do because they predominantly balanced on their stronger leg, wrapping our left leg and turning the right leg was easier than wrapping the right and trying to turn to the left, which ended up throwing people off-balance a lot more.

Many thank yous, am about to try animating the scorpion death lock and knew I wasn't crazy lol

[nisidhe]

The old technical term for it was a reverse grapevine.

[chrom]

Believe Sting sat down on his opponent's spine and back when he did it while Bret stood up when he put the move on. That's the difference between the sharpshooter and scorpion death lock

[Jaws the Shark]

Oct 23, 2020 13:51:44 GMT -5 chrom said:

Believe Sting sat down on his opponent's spine and back when he did it while Bret stood up when he put the move on. That's the difference between the sharpshooter and scorpion death lock

Other way around, Sting would sit on the back early on but eventually changed it to the standing version, I assume as his knees got worse.

Its innovation is generally credited to Riki Choshu, who at the very least was responsible for it being named the scorpion deathlock, or sasori-gatame, and applied it using his right leg and sat right back. But apart from the left/right leg difference I don't think there are enough differences to really call them two separate holds.

[ANuclearError]

Oct 23, 2020 18:35:46 GMT -5 Jaws the Shark said:

Oct 23, 2020 13:51:44 GMT -5 chrom said:

Believe Sting sat down on his opponent's spine and back when he did it while Bret stood up when he put the move on. That's the difference between the sharpshooter and scorpion death lock

Other way around, Sting would sit on the back early on but eventually changed it to the standing version, I assume as his knees got worse.

Its innovation is generally credited to Riki Choshu, who at the very least was responsible for it being named the scorpion deathlock, or sasori-gatame, and applied it using his right leg and sat right back. But apart from the left/right leg difference I don't think there are enough differences to really call them two separate holds.

That's very interesting to know. The scorpion motif is so heavily a part of Sting, especially the Crow gimmick, that I never considered this as a possibility. Sting & scorpion fit so well together, I assumed that the gimmick name caused the move name.

[Crappler El 0 M]

Sting's looked more like Masa Saito and Riki Choshu's Sasori-gatame, which has now been picked up by EVIL in NJPW.

[Can you afford to pay me, Gah]

Oct 23, 2020 18:35:46 GMT -5 Jaws the Shark said:

Oct 23, 2020 13:51:44 GMT -5 chrom said:

Believe Sting sat down on his opponent's spine and back when he did it while Bret stood up when he put the move on. That's the difference between the sharpshooter and scorpion death lock

Other way around, Sting would sit on the back early on but eventually changed it to the standing version, I assume as his knees got worse.

Its innovation is generally credited to Riki Choshu, who at the very least was responsible for it being named the scorpion deathlock, or sasori-gatame, and applied it using his right leg and sat right back. But apart from the left/right leg difference I don't think there are enough differences to really call them two separate holds.

He didn't stand because his knees. It really depends on who he has it on. Example here him with it on Seth at the end of his career. Clearly it sitting down. He seems to stand only if someone is supposed to grab the rope of if someone had bad knees and can't bend that way. Like Hogan in TNA and HHH was more standing up.

[Crappler El 0 M]

Oct 23, 2020 18:35:46 GMT -5 Jaws the Shark said:

Oct 23, 2020 13:51:44 GMT -5 chrom said:

Believe Sting sat down on his opponent's spine and back when he did it while Bret stood up when he put the move on. That's the difference between the sharpshooter and scorpion death lock

Other way around, Sting would sit on the back early on but eventually changed it to the standing version, I assume as his knees got worse.

Its innovation is generally credited to Riki Choshu, who at the very least was responsible for it being named the scorpion deathlock, or sasori-gatame, and applied it using his right leg and sat right back. But apart from the left/right leg difference I don't think there are enough differences to really call them two separate holds.

For the record, Masa Saito used it before (his partner) Riki Choshu, though the move is much more synonymous with Choshu as it became his signature move. Choshu is the one who really popularized it.

[ronin705]

...and the reason why I even asked?? I attempted to animate the finisher but wanted to be sure it looks different if I try Bret's..

youtu.be/sMXEIOoL9gY

["Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay]

I'll tell you the main difference - Bret applied it well!

Sting is the reason why I am a wrestling fan in the first place, but my GOD John Cena would tell him to tighten that thing up.

[.]

If you're the rock you don't bother with either

[67 more]

Oct 24, 2020 17:51:24 GMT -5 . said:

If you're the rock you don't bother with either

Smush the ankles together and pray for the best

[Mozenrath]

Oct 24, 2020 17:48:33 GMT -5 "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay said:

I'll tell you the main difference - Bret applied it well!

Sting is the reason why I am a wrestling fan in the first place, but my GOD John Cena would tell him to tighten that thing up.

True, but I still like thinking of it as the Scorpion hold, just since that's the older name and the opponent's legs are over their back like a scorpion's tail.

If every Canadian ever wants to do Sharpshooters and call them that, I totally get it, but it bugs me that Bret's became the default name.

[Crappler El 0 M]

Bret always sat down on the opponent and used his free arm to hold on to the opponent's knee. Sometimes you would see Saito, Choshu, and Sting not using their free arm. Sometimes Choshu (as well as Saito and Owen) use their free arm to hold the boot of the opponent. Also, Saito, Choshu, and Sting were more likely to stand up with the move at times, while Bret didn't.

I wanted to see which wrestlers used the left leg like Bret and which ones use the right like Choshu and Sting. Note it's possible that some of these tried it the other way from time to time, but I based this off examples that I could find. It seems that traditionally, more wrestlers applied the move like its innovators, Saito and Choshu. However, there has been a big surge of modern wrestlers who use the left leg like Bret.

Uses the left leg:
-Ron Garvin
-Bret Hart
-Natalya
-Teddy Hart
-Davey Boy Smith, Jr.
-Cesaro (he has used it both ways, but most recently did it this way)
-Matt Jackson
-Nick Jackson
-Shawn Spears

Uses the right leg:
.Masa Saito
-Riki Choshu
-Adrian Adonis
-Davey Boy Smith
-Sting
-Ted DiBiase
-Owen Hart
-The Rock
-Chris Benoit
-Lance Storm
-Trish Stratus
-Edge
-Tyson Kidd
-EVIL
-Tomohiro Ishii