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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Nov 20, 2020 20:12:17 GMT -5
It’s been a pretty great run. I hate the crowds missed it though, we would really be seeing just how over the guy is. I know for me his presence has just elevated since coming to AEW. Like Charlie Murphy once said, his aura, you can actually see it, lol. I'd say it's a testament to the job he's done that the ratings, buyrates, and acclaim have held steady despite the lack of crowds.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Nov 20, 2020 20:16:41 GMT -5
If you think Moxley has received a John Cena Superman Push, I recommend you go back and watch Cena's run on top. When Moxley is booked to outwrestle submission wrestlers and make 'extreme' legends tap when he doesn't work either style well, is booked to defeat all comers for years on end in spite of audience reaction... then and only then can you compare the two. He's been booked strongly, but not as a flawless, invulnerable all conquering hero who's been told not to sell anything. I don't know if it was years on end, but Cena definitely choked out Umaga with the ring ropes to win one match, and went over Khali shortly after Khali had squashed the Undertaker. It only ended when RVD beat him when Edge interfered at a huge PPV where RVD could have just gone over clean, and the status quo quickly came back when RVD f***ed up. I do think this Mox run merits some comparisons, but the primary difference is that the number of people asking "will he ever lose?" seems pretty small.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Nov 20, 2020 20:17:49 GMT -5
Refreshing for a face champ to be booked competent instead of an utter imbecile
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Nov 20, 2020 20:31:20 GMT -5
I made the Cena comparisons in another thread. In case that's what's being referenced, I want to emphasize here:
Moxley's run here is, if anything, a demonstration of how much better Cena's top face run could have been with more competent booking. Many of the story beats are similar, but the execution is improved across the board.
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spagett
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Post by spagett on Nov 21, 2020 5:12:02 GMT -5
Mcintyre has been booked really well as a face champ too to be fair but I prefer Moxley just in general so yeah I would agree.
Mox's title run has definitely been better than Kofi's was though.
The moment Kofi won the title was of course incredible but then I wasn't really a fan of much of what he did afterwards and then of course the way he lost the title was just horrendous.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 21, 2020 6:03:13 GMT -5
If you think Moxley has received a John Cena Superman Push, I recommend you go back and watch Cena's run on top. When Moxley is booked to outwrestle submission wrestlers and make 'extreme' legends tap when he doesn't work either style well, is booked to defeat all comers for years on end in spite of audience reaction... then and only then can you compare the two. He's been booked strongly, but not as a flawless, invulnerable all conquering hero who's been told not to sell anything. I don't know if it was years on end, but Cena definitely choked out Umaga with the ring ropes to win one match, and went over Khali shortly after Khali had squashed the Undertaker. It only ended when RVD beat him when Edge interfered at a huge PPV where RVD could have just gone over clean, and the status quo quickly came back when RVD f***ed up. I do think this Mox run merits some comparisons, but the primary difference is that the number of people asking "will he ever lose?" seems pretty small. If he's not booked like Cena, not getting mixed or negative reactions, he hasn't been stripped of all personality or edge, the roster aren't being buried as a side effect of his booking as the only concern is keeping him over rather than making any other stars, then I really don't think it's fair to say they're alike. They're both faces who have the world title, that's pretty much it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 6:10:23 GMT -5
Yes, he's a fantastic IWGP US Champion.
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Post by moxfan1 on Nov 21, 2020 6:23:29 GMT -5
If you think Moxley has received a John Cena Superman Push, I recommend you go back and watch Cena's run on top. When Moxley is booked to outwrestle submission wrestlers and make 'extreme' legends tap when he doesn't work either style well, is booked to defeat all comers for years on end in spite of audience reaction... then and only then can you compare the two. He's been booked strongly, but not as a flawless, invulnerable all conquering hero who's been told not to sell anything. I don't know if it was years on end, but Cena definitely choked out Umaga with the ring ropes to win one match, and went over Khali shortly after Khali had squashed the Undertaker. It only ended when RVD beat him when Edge interfered at a huge PPV where RVD could have just gone over clean, and the status quo quickly came back when RVD f***ed up. I do think this Mox run merits some comparisons, but the primary difference is that the number of people asking "will he ever lose?" seems pretty small. The thing is Moxley doesn't bury anyone. He needed to hit paradigm shift on a chair to beat Hager. He let Brodie Lee kick out of his finisher 3 times before he choked him out. Remember Tazz threw in the towel to protect Cage from re-injury. Moxley then had to out cheat MJF to beat him and used banned move. While Archer also kicked out of his finisher a few times and Moxley just escaped defeat by rolling him up. The only people you can say he beat clean that didn't look as strong in defeat are Eddie Kingston and Darby. But he also put over Darby a ton in the match as well. So it's not really Cena like here. Because Moxley winning but not in dominant fashion. He just finds ways to win within the story being told.
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clifford
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Post by clifford on Nov 21, 2020 7:23:40 GMT -5
Best face world champion since Batista's first WHC reign. Drew and Kofi's were great, but no world title reign that includes multiple defenses against Dolph Ziggler can be considered the best in a decade.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Nov 21, 2020 7:37:41 GMT -5
Can we please quit talking like Cena’s face run was some kind of failure in the vein of patriotic Lex Luger? That’s what’s bothering me about these comparisons, the idea that this particular style of babyfaces is a default improvement. It’s not. It’s just a different kind of face character Mox is playing, it’s not inherently superior.
I hugely disagree with the theories that a champion has to have an edge like Mox to be relevant, or that Cena was somehow “stripped of all personality” (his character was just tweaked, and Cena the person started evolving. He was still incredibly charismatic). Or the idea that if you’re a top face, you can’t get over by dominating an opponent now and then. There were millions of people who enjoyed Cena bulldozing through bad guy wrestlers every week, are we suddenly going to discount them?
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Nov 21, 2020 11:11:35 GMT -5
It's not inherently superior, Cena drew a lot of money after all, and stopped the bleeding after the WWE drove off a large chunk of the audience with the Reign of Terror and Invasion, but it's also not the same. While I would argue that you need a little edge to keep the entire audience interested as the flawless babyface act stopped working as an across the board thing in 1991, but that's neither here nor there, my point is Moxley isn't booked that way and certainly hasn't had the same negative impact on the rest of the roster the way Cena's relentless push had. He's not booked like the only guy that truly matters in the way Cena was.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Nov 21, 2020 11:31:58 GMT -5
Refreshing for a face champ to be booked competent instead of an utter imbecile And after years of seeing dominant heel champions clown everybody elsewhere, it’s nice to see a change of pace.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Nov 21, 2020 13:42:21 GMT -5
I think he's a good mix of Stone Cold's 98 run and Cena's 2007 run, whilst also being his own thing.
Short answer, yes, best face champ run in years.
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Post by Dub H on Nov 21, 2020 13:46:20 GMT -5
It's not inherently superior, Cena drew a lot of money after all, and stopped the bleeding after the WWE drove off a large chunk of the audience with the Reign of Terror and Invasion, but it's also not the same. While I would argue that you need a little edge to keep the entire audience interested as the flawless babyface act stopped working as an across the board thing in 1991, but that's neither here nor there, my point is Moxley isn't booked that way and certainly hasn't had the same negative impact on the rest of the roster the way Cena's relentless push had. He's not booked like the only guy that truly matters in the way Cena was. I feel like Cena was perfectly fine as a top babyface. The issue is more that a lot of people and interest was killed to keep him that way, that didn't need to happen Cena was going to be a big babyface regardless,even outside of Cena feuds,AEW isnt doing that with Moxley.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Nov 22, 2020 18:28:34 GMT -5
I think it tells you how poor most world title reigns are these days that this is one we're considering one of the better ones.
I think Moxley spent maybe the first half of the reign so far having not enormously interesting feuds, and cutting promos about pretty much nothing except 'yes I am a badass'. Which... great?
I'm not saying they were bad! Just not anything setting the world alight. The main event scene for a long stretch in AEW for me has been its second weakest point after the women's division.
It took until pretty much Eddie Kingston for me to feel like Moxley's reign actually really got some juice as a reign.
Winning all the time is not enough to be a good reign, every champion should win most of the time. We are used to wrestling promotions, especially WWE, blowing this.
Having good matches should not be enough, you shouldn't be holding that title for long if you can't have good matches in that spot. We are used to wrestling promotions, especially WWE, blowing this.
It's a new title and a new promotion, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. But I feel like the main event is the least innovative, trailblazing place in AEW, or was for a long time.
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bog
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Post by bog on Nov 26, 2020 22:46:05 GMT -5
I think it tells you how poor most world title reigns are these days that this is one we're considering one of the better ones. I think Moxley spent maybe the first half of the reign so far having not enormously interesting feuds, and cutting promos about pretty much nothing except 'yes I am a badass'. Which... great? I'm not saying they were bad! Just not anything setting the world alight. The main event scene for a long stretch in AEW for me has been its second weakest point after the women's division. It took until pretty much Eddie Kingston for me to feel like Moxley's reign actually really got some juice as a reign. Winning all the time is not enough to be a good reign, every champion should win most of the time. We are used to wrestling promotions, especially WWE, blowing this. Having good matches should not be enough, you shouldn't be holding that title for long if you can't have good matches in that spot. We are used to wrestling promotions, especially WWE, blowing this. It's a new title and a new promotion, you don't have to reinvent the wheel. But I feel like the main event is the least innovative, trailblazing place in AEW, or was for a long time. I get the criticism even if I don't completely agree. A lot of faces are better chasing the belt (I think Mox is one of them), but it's a hard balance because once that face is the hottest thing in your company, that's when they finally win it and you have to figure out what to do from there. Personally I've really liked how Moxley has been able to just ever so slightly outsmart all his opponents, and that's what makes this reign pretty cool. I agree a lot of the "hey I'm a badass" promos are redundant, maybe even boring. But yeah, overall I think Drew and Mox really did a good job of being the top guys in such a weird time
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Post by moxfan1 on Nov 26, 2020 23:49:15 GMT -5
This weeks contract signing with what Moxley did. Just showed how great his run is and how great his character is going at the moment. I think it would be a mistake to end his reign next week. He needs to hold the title until at least Revolution.
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Post by Legion on Nov 27, 2020 4:17:32 GMT -5
I couldnt disagree more. He's been bland, the reign has had no suspense to it and I havent bought he was going to lose the title to any challenger he has had.
Yes, he's looked dominant and been a tough champ, but the belt has been an accessory. He hasnt elevated the title, nor has the title elevated him.
He's just been there, holding it.
I'm afraid that isn't what I look for in a title. I would much prefer a hot potato belt pushing stories and elevating everyone involved, than one dominant guy who doesnt need it sitting there with it with no credible challengers
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2020 9:32:22 GMT -5
I would much prefer a hot potato belt pushing stories and elevating everyone involved, than one dominant guy who doesnt need it sitting there with it with no credible challengers I don't understand this complaint at all. He won by the skin of his teeth against Brodie and Archer, he had to cheat (per the match stipulation) to beat MJF, he only beat Cage by Taz throwing in the towel - hell, it took him a chair-assisted Paradigm Shift to beat Hager of all people. He beat Kingston clean but Kingston, through his feud with Mox, became arguably the most compelling character in wrestling. Mox has elevated damn near everyone he's faced.
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Post by polarbearpete on Nov 27, 2020 10:02:39 GMT -5
I would much prefer a hot potato belt pushing stories and elevating everyone involved, than one dominant guy who doesnt need it sitting there with it with no credible challengers I don't understand this complaint at all. He won by the skin of his teeth against Brodie and Archer, he had to cheat (per the match stipulation) to beat MJF, he only beat Cage by Taz throwing in the towel - hell, it took him a chair-assisted Paradigm Shift to beat Hager of all people. He beat Kingston clean but Kingston, through his feud with Mox, became arguably the most compelling character in wrestling. Mox has elevated damn near everyone he's faced. I agree that the actual matches themselves have not been one-sided but I think there’s something to the fact that almost all of the challengers have not seemed credible enough to win the title from Mox going in (outside of maybe MJF as some did think he could win the title). Don’t think a large percentage of fans had any suspense as to who was going to win his matches against Archer, Cage, Brodie, Darby, Hager and Kingston.
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