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Post by romanstylesiii on Nov 30, 2020 22:12:47 GMT -5
While it was not all his fault, ratings and attendance tanked right when he won it at Mania 12 (start of the NWO, and WWE's surrounding cast for Shawn sucked).
This was also the period where Shawn was a loose cannon. He was hopped on pills and sleeping in Vince's office for most of the day before Rumble '97 (weeks before he lost his smile).
When Vince put the title back on him in 97, he was also stirring a ton of crap and by his own account was impossible to deal with. If he was not such a prick to Bret, the need for a screwjob would not have been so bad.
After Bret left, Shawn got a raise and received a similar rate of pay to what Bret's orignal contract extension was.
Vince chose to keep Shawn over Bret, despite his lower drawing ability and being a much bigger headache? Like Why??
Shawn of course did prove later he could draw, and most of his WWE title run being poor was largely because of things out of his hands. But if you are Vince in '97, what are you thinking trusting Shawn going into the one of the most important Mania's in the company's history??
*Most of what i cited is from Shawn's own books
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Post by Porky's Butthole on Nov 30, 2020 22:24:24 GMT -5
I was gonna post a particular HBK gif here, but I don't want the ban hammer to come down on me..
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Nov 30, 2020 22:33:04 GMT -5
Bearskin rug.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Nov 30, 2020 22:33:14 GMT -5
Michaels and Undertaker were literally the only two guys with any star power left in WWF who stuck with the company at its low point, when they could've gotten fat paydays out of WCW. From Vince's perspective, they're the guys who kept him afloat through the last period when he was genuinely in danger of going out of business, and that's almost certainly why he's treated both of them near-reverently for decades.
The vast disparity between how they presented themselves backstage to the rest of the boys just goes to show how little that matters to McMahon.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Dec 1, 2020 2:28:27 GMT -5
Look at how he treats Cena and reigns.
When the man thinks he sees a star, he gets stubborn as hell. No matter how the fans treat them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 2:35:26 GMT -5
According to Prichard (take his opinion with a lot of salt), Vince saw a lot of himself in Shawn, and tried to foster a father/son dynamic with him.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Dec 1, 2020 2:37:17 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Vince screwed over Bret because he couldn't afford to pay him. But he gives Shawn the same money immediately afterwards and still pays Mike Tyson $3m a few months later???
Something doesn't add up...
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Dec 1, 2020 2:38:37 GMT -5
According to Prichard (take his opinion with a lot of salt), Vince saw a lot of himself in Shawn, and tried to foster a father/son dynamic wih him. Yes, all six inches of himself in Shawn. *sorry, too easy
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Post by Andee9001 on Dec 1, 2020 4:25:59 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Vince screwed over Bret because he couldn't afford to pay him. But he gives Shawn the same money immediately afterwards and still pays Mike Tyson $3m a few months later??? Something doesn't add up... At the time Bret was on a deal that made a heck of a lot more money than Shawn, Taker, etc. As far as Shawn getting his pay bumped up after Bret that's the first i've heard of that. Choosing Shawn over Bret i think was a case of Vince simply liking Shawn more and wanted to keep the younger, more exciting wrestler over the slightly older Bret. Take the commentary during Montreal as an example of them trying to put over Shawn. Best i can assume about Tyson is that that was a case of spending money to make money. Short term using Tyson get media and fan attention meant more in the long term than spending that same amount on Bret in the long term.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2020 4:50:01 GMT -5
According to Prichard (take his opinion with a lot of salt), Vince saw a lot of himself in Shawn, and tried to foster a father/son dynamic with him. Remember Vince himself was going nowhere in life until his long lost father turned up one day and gave him a prosperous future out of nowhere. Probably a lot of that in how when he finds a favorite they become a real favorite. Maybe HBK had a rough relationship with his own father (ain't exactly unheard of among addicts and born again Christians) and that accelerated the bond.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Dec 1, 2020 4:56:45 GMT -5
According to Prichard (take his opinion with a lot of salt), Vince saw a lot of himself in Shawn, and tried to foster a father/son dynamic with him. Remember Vince himself was going nowhere in life until his long lost father turned up one day and gave him a prosperous future out of nowhere. Probably a lot of that in how when he finds a favorite they become a real favorite. Maybe HBK had a rough relationship with his own father (ain't exactly unheard of among addicts and born again Christians) and that accelerated the bond. From his second autobiography, which is a lot more faith centred than wrestling centred, he said he always had a good relationship with his parents and the demons were due to him living the wrestling lifestyle and not his upbringing - money, fame, easy access to vices etc.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 1, 2020 4:59:09 GMT -5
Vince had a huge mancrush on the Kliq guys, not in a gay way, but he saw this group of confident, cool alpha males who dominated all comers and encouraged that because that's what he sees himself as. As Hall, Nash and X-Pac left, Shawn and Hunter were the last ones standing and they exploited Vince's admiration, and capitalised on the fact Vince was desperate for star power to get their way, even as Shawn became completely unmanageable.
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Dec 1, 2020 8:44:59 GMT -5
According to Prichard (take his opinion with a lot of salt), Vince saw a lot of himself in Shawn, and tried to foster a father/son dynamic with him. Yeah, they're both massive c***s
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Post by dirtyoldman on Dec 2, 2020 6:03:35 GMT -5
Shawn was the son he never had....
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2020 7:27:03 GMT -5
According to Prichard (take his opinion with a lot of salt), Vince saw a lot of himself in Shawn, and tried to foster a father/son dynamic with him. That's just "Vince" enough to make perfect sense, somehow. Running along that vein - Vince must have known if Bret went to WCW he'd be ok as a person; betrayed of course, but he'd manage & survive on his own. But if Shawn went to WCW, I honestly think Vince may've believed that Shawn would die in WCW, probably from a drug overdose partying hardy with his old pals Nash and Hall - something that he probably thought WCW wouldn't personally control the way he could. So in that "Vince" way, maybe he thought he was saving Shawn's life by keeping him...
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 2, 2020 7:42:51 GMT -5
According to Prichard (take his opinion with a lot of salt), Vince saw a lot of himself in Shawn, and tried to foster a father/son dynamic with him. That's just "Vince" enough to make perfect sense, somehow. Running along that vein - Vince must have known if Bret went to WCW he'd be ok as a person; betrayed of course, but he'd manage & survive on his own. But if Shawn went to WCW, I honestly think Vince may've believed that Shawn would die in WCW, probably from a drug overdose partying hardy with his old pals Nash and Hall - something that he probably thought WCW wouldn't personally control the way he could. So in that "Vince" way, maybe he thought he was saving Shawn's life by keeping him... I think it tracks with what we know of Vince, plus it also, timing-wise, sort of makes sense. Keep in mind, Hogan and Vince were closer to peers, but after that relationship ended, Vince was older than a lot of his remaining stars. Also, he probably was hoping for something like how Vincent J. McMahon had Bruno. Vince's dad had been able to pretty much dump Bruno onto Jack Tunney for a period to try to humble Bruno without damaging his market value, but it was tougher to reign Shawn in, as it'd turn out.
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Dec 2, 2020 8:58:08 GMT -5
According to Prichard (take his opinion with a lot of salt), Vince saw a lot of himself in Shawn, and tried to foster a father/son dynamic with him. Vince- "Shawn, you're like the son I always wanted...." Shawn -"aw, thanks, Vinnie mac!" Shane- "... I'm standing right here! I can hear you!" Vince- "SHUT UP AND PUT UP THAT RING, YOU BASTARD!!!"
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Dec 2, 2020 13:52:22 GMT -5
Vince had a huge mancrush on the Kliq guys, not in a gay way, but he saw this group of confident, cool alpha males who dominated all comers and encouraged that because that's what he sees himself as. As Hall, Nash and X-Pac left, Shawn and Hunter were the last ones standing and they exploited Vince's admiration, and capitalised on the fact Vince was desperate for star power to get their way, even as Shawn became completely unmanageable. I see Vince as Michael Scott and the clique was Jim and Ryan
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Post by romanstylesiii on Dec 2, 2020 13:56:33 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Vince screwed over Bret because he couldn't afford to pay him. But he gives Shawn the same money immediately afterwards and still pays Mike Tyson $3m a few months later??? Something doesn't add up... Business was starting to turn around just as Vince decided to move on from Bret. It still seems weird, as a lot of their only sellouts in '96-'97 were in Canada, and largely because of the Hart family. I'd take it that Shawn helped Vince run Bret out of town. Which makes it weirder, because Bret on top outdrew Shawn on top
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Dec 2, 2020 14:54:41 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Vince screwed over Bret because he couldn't afford to pay him. But he gives Shawn the same money immediately afterwards and still pays Mike Tyson $3m a few months later??? Something doesn't add up... That's not what happened. He didn't give HBK a 25 year deal and the Tyson money wasn't from the talent budget. The major issue with Bret's deal was that it was paying what would today be a midcarder's salary until 2021. Vince's goal at the time was to go public, and a ridiculous contract like that would have completely tanked the valuation of the company.
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