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Post by The Thread Barbi on Dec 2, 2020 16:04:25 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Vince screwed over Bret because he couldn't afford to pay him. But he gives Shawn the same money immediately afterwards and still pays Mike Tyson $3m a few months later??? Something doesn't add up... That's not what happened. He didn't give HBK a 25 year deal and the Tyson money wasn't from the talent budget. The major issue with Bret's deal was that it was paying what would today be a midcarder's salary until 2021. Vince's goal at the time was to go public, and a ridiculous contract like that would have completely tanked the valuation of the company. Been through this previously in another thread - JR on his podcast explained Bret's 20 year deal was 3 years at $1.5m as a wrestler, a number of years at $250k as a producer and then last few years on a legends deal at $100k a year, totalling $10m in 20yrs - Bret offered to take the millions at the back end of the deal and work for less in 97/98 as Vince McMahon said he couldn't afford the $1.5m a year, at the time- the stock market argument, to me, falls apart when Mark Henry was only 2 yrs into a 10 yr deal worth $1 million a year - far more than Bret Hart per annum and a significantly lower return comparatively - merchandise, ticket sales etc. Arguably Bret Hart would have drawn $10 million and more in three years as Austin's staple opponent and Mr. McMahon's chosen one. Going back to Shawn Michaels - Vince McMahon told Bret he couldn't afford the high rate of pay, yet starts paying Shawn Michaels the same. Admittedly, Vince saves $750k a year as he's doubled Shawn's annual salary but not paying Bret at the same time. I still don't get the logic of not paying Bret, but keeping Henry and bumping up Shawn's pay.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Dec 2, 2020 17:43:05 GMT -5
They kept Henry as they couldn't fire him without a big payout if I remember correctly, which is why they inflicted so much crap on him to try and get him to quit.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Dec 2, 2020 17:58:31 GMT -5
I still don't get the logic of not paying Bret, but keeping Henry and bumping up Shawn's pay. They would've dropped Mark Henry if they could. We'll never know if all his terrible angles with incest and hand-siring were really an attempt to humiliate him into quitting, but his guaranteed deal wasn't ending early unless they convinced him to quit, and unlike Bret, Mark was never enough of a mark to let himself be manipulated by whether his fake fights would end in wins or losses.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Dec 2, 2020 20:10:34 GMT -5
As for Shawns raise I would doubt it came with a 20 year contract. Brets deal being a going public problem was not the amount of the money per se, but the length of the deal. Long term contracts like that are not a good thing. They would have dumped Henry if they were able to. If they could have afforded it they might have just paid him off a full buyout just to get the contract off the books. Even if they could have afforded it they probably still hoped to get him to quit.
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Post by Hit Girl on Dec 6, 2020 13:11:11 GMT -5
Because for all his mid 90's twattery, HBK was still an incredible talent.
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Post by mrpeacock on Dec 6, 2020 13:44:25 GMT -5
Vince had a huge mancrush on the Kliq guys, not in a gay way, but he saw this group of confident, cool alpha males who dominated all comers and encouraged that because that's what he sees himself as. As Hall, Nash and X-Pac left, Shawn and Hunter were the last ones standing and they exploited Vince's admiration, and capitalised on the fact Vince was desperate for star power to get their way, even as Shawn became completely unmanageable. I see Vince as Michael Scott and the clique was Jim and Ryan The Clique was more like a bunch of Todd Packers
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 6, 2020 13:57:34 GMT -5
I think Mark Henry was a Jim Ross guy, was he not? No wonder Vince hated Ross so much. Henry was god awful until like 5-10 years before retirement. It's a shame, now that Henry is brought up, that they couldn't keep Bret but could keep Henry. I know their hands were pretty tied on letting Henry go though.
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Post by Aceorton on Dec 6, 2020 16:43:38 GMT -5
People were constantly saying Shawn was their boy toy. But he was just a sexy boy. The song made it clear, but people were still getting it wrong, so Vince, feeling protective, did whatever he could to help Shawn.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Dec 6, 2020 22:42:54 GMT -5
Shawn told Vince the Arstiocrats joke. Right up Vince's alley. He guaranteed himself a job for life after that.
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adamclark52
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Post by adamclark52 on Dec 6, 2020 22:59:14 GMT -5
Basically Shawn is to Vince what the mirror is to Homer Of course Vince being Vince they modelled the character after a 1980’s Sunset Strip glam metal guy...in 1996
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Dec 7, 2020 9:49:04 GMT -5
People were constantly saying Shawn was their boy toy. But he was just a sexy boy. The song made it clear, but people were still getting it wrong, so Vince, feeling protective, did whatever he could to help Shawn. Shawn probably told Vince, "Hands off the merchandise".
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Post by angelofapocalypse on Dec 7, 2020 12:48:37 GMT -5
Basically Shawn is to Vince what the mirror is to Homer Of course Vince being Vince they modelled the character after a 1980’s Sunset Strip glam metal guy...in 1996 I presume that glam metal guy would be David Lee Roth?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2020 12:52:50 GMT -5
People were constantly saying Shawn was their boy toy. But he was just a sexy boy. The song made it clear, but people were still getting it wrong, so Vince, feeling protective, did whatever he could to help Shawn. Shawn probably told Vince, "Hands off the merchandise". Sherri used to tell him that a couple years earlier but Vince didn't listen. Shawn had to go do Playgirl for Vince to pay attention.
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Post by wildojinx on Dec 7, 2020 12:53:50 GMT -5
Basically Shawn is to Vince what the mirror is to Homer Of course Vince being Vince they modelled the character after a 1980’s Sunset Strip glam metal guy...in 1996 I presume that glam metal guy would be David Lee Roth? I'm pretty sure that was the gimmick of the Rockers too (if you notice, Marty also resembled a younger Eddie Van Halen).
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Post by moonpies88 on Dec 7, 2020 17:19:15 GMT -5
Hbk was the only one, on camera, I saw Vince tearing up giving his hall of fame ring too
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Post by evilone on Dec 7, 2020 18:16:50 GMT -5
Vince knew he couldn't keep both so he made a choice. Actually he has made a choice way before even giving the contract to Bret as he had advised Bret to try WCW.
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Post by The Trashman on Dec 7, 2020 19:20:05 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Vince screwed over Bret because he couldn't afford to pay him. But he gives Shawn the same money immediately afterwards and still pays Mike Tyson $3m a few months later??? Something doesn't add up... That's not what happened. He didn't give HBK a 25 year deal and the Tyson money wasn't from the talent budget. The major issue with Bret's deal was that it was paying what would today be a midcarder's salary until 2021. Vince's goal at the time was to go public, and a ridiculous contract like that would have completely tanked the valuation of the company. Bonilla's contract hasn't kept the Mets from being sold..
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Dec 7, 2020 20:54:04 GMT -5
There is a part of me that thinks that Vince did choose Bret (or at least his picks) in the end. I think Vince was quite prepared to fix Shawn's wagon as well as Bret's after that pay-per-view, if he had not made up his mind to do so beforehand.
Vince was not getting involved with DX after what happened: now, some may suggest that this was to get the heat off Vince somewhat over what happened, but I think there was more at work. Bret had pushed for Austin and Rocky Maivia to get more and bigger pushes and it was Bret who was pushing Austin into that anti-hero role that contrasted with the sophomoric antics of DX. It would be Austin who feuded with Mr. McMahon and who got the rub from taking on the Boss, while DX were merely fill-in antagonists for a Wrestlemania main event that would showcase Mike Tyson and Austin.
Seriously, though, who would have been left for Shawn to face had he gone over that night? Austin would have been cut off at the knees, and Mr. McMahon would have had no real traction going forward. In many respects, Shawn had taken a tumble a bit by then, and seemed to have been set up for a huge fall after WM XIV.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Dec 8, 2020 5:14:05 GMT -5
People were constantly saying Shawn was their boy toy. But he was just a sexy boy. The song made it clear, but people were still getting it wrong, so Vince, feeling protective, did whatever he could to help Shawn. Perhaps Vince helped him decide whether or not he was cute, as he's uncertain in the song. He knew he was sexy though, of that he had no doubt.
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Post by ellisdee on Dec 25, 2020 17:27:50 GMT -5
Because for all his mid 90's twattery, HBK was still an incredible talent. This. I see this topic talked about a lot, but at the time HBK was one of the best guys Vince had, besides Bret. It was go full on with Shawn or make Sir Mo the champ.
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