markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,143
|
Post by markymark on Dec 11, 2020 16:35:31 GMT -5
No wonder he sounded grumpy during the Bucks vs TH2 match
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Dec 11, 2020 16:37:56 GMT -5
Y'know what, JR? Yeah, they want the chants. Because it's a form of entertainment that thrives on audience participation. If they can pull it off while still keeping the audience invested in who wins and who loses, they are doing their job on every level it can be done on.
And this has been the status quo of wrestling, everywhere, for like ten years now. It's been the status quo outside WWE for about sixteen years or more. Trying to pretend that this is just a fad that can't be sustained doesn't fly.
|
|
markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,143
|
Post by markymark on Dec 11, 2020 16:40:33 GMT -5
Seems that JR was talking about Cutler, why him out of all people in the AEW roster?
|
|
FinalGwen
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Particularly fond of muffins.
Posts: 16,417
|
Post by FinalGwen on Dec 11, 2020 16:40:53 GMT -5
Funny, I don't recall him moaning about this when the Rock was doing DDTs as transitional moves 2 decades ago.
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 11, 2020 16:44:34 GMT -5
Jim Ross doesn't like the evolution of ring work any more than he likes the evolution of being told that he can't say sexist shit on commentary anymore.
|
|
mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,785
|
Post by mrbananagrabber on Dec 11, 2020 16:55:40 GMT -5
Cutler sounds like a petulant child.
|
|
|
Post by chronocross on Dec 11, 2020 17:01:53 GMT -5
I like it when guys get out of the way of those high-spots like Samoa Joe used to where he would casually walk away and the guy would miss the move.
|
|
The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,274
|
Post by The Ichi on Dec 11, 2020 17:05:24 GMT -5
Cutler sounds like a petulant child. How? He's mocking the actual petulant child.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 17:15:22 GMT -5
JR called the most infamous spot in wrestling history and it didn't finish the match.
Did he go back and tell Undertaker and Mankind that their trapeze act buried the business?
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Dec 11, 2020 17:18:53 GMT -5
Remember how JR complained about the young guys who would gaze off into the distance when he tried to give them advice?
This is why.
Just to name a name, Jack Evans has been wrestling longer than the Undertaker, Road Dogg, Billy Gunn, Stone Cold Steve Austin, X-Pac, and Triple H had been wrestling in 1998. Would JR have dared to give any of those guys advice on how to wrestle correctly back then? If he did, would he have been as dismissive of their disagreements as the wrestlers he's talking about today? I think it's safe to say that the answer is a resounding "Hell no."
A lot of these guys have been scraping by on the indies or finding success in the wrestling world for years. A decade, many of them; two decades for Jack Evans; three for Christopher Daniels. They've been living in the wrestling world that JR is describing. Jack Evans has found success in Japan and Mexico; Daniels helped put ROH on the map and kept buzz on TNA as they were getting onto TV. They did it by drawing people. People came, in person, and paid money to see these men wrestle at various times and places in the last 20 years. They earned their money by working, by putting on matches that people wanted to see, by promoting themselves and those matches.
These guys have done the work, been in patches where every dollar in their bank account came from how well they could wrestle, from whether they could put on a show that an audience would pay for. And they wrestle in the style that JR is complaining about and have for around 20 years.
And here's some 60+ year old guy who thinks they would have made more money if they wrestled like it was the 80's. Just a thought, JR - if they would have, they probably would have figured that out the hard way all on their own.
|
|
|
Post by toodarkmark on Dec 11, 2020 17:22:25 GMT -5
On the one hand he is a sexist who doesn't understand today's wrestling, on the other hand he's got a long term contract and you can't fire him. What's a company to do?
|
|
markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,143
|
Post by markymark on Dec 11, 2020 17:28:47 GMT -5
On the one hand he is a sexist who doesn't understand today's wrestling, on the other hand he's got a long term contract and you can't fire him. What's a company to do? JR said on his podcast last month that AEW will be his last job in wrestling, he is done in 2022.
|
|
wankah
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,354
|
Post by wankah on Dec 11, 2020 17:29:19 GMT -5
Personally, in JR's case, I just think about his previous medical conditions and what he's been thru. You know that part of the brain that says ''think twice' might not be functional all the time, so I'll give him some slack. However, having said that, I still enjoy his commentary like a motherf***er.
|
|
|
Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 11, 2020 17:36:02 GMT -5
Remember how JR complained about the young guys who would gaze off into the distance when he tried to give them advice? This is why. Just to name a name, Jack Evans has been wrestling longer longer than the Undertaker, Road Dogg, Billy Gunn, Stone Cold Steve Austin, X-Pac, and Triple H had been wrestling in 1998. Would JR have dared to give any of those guys advice on how to wrestle correctly back then? If he did, would he have been as dismissive of their disagreements as the wrestlers he's talking about today? I think it's safe to say that the answer is a resounding "Hell no." A lot of these guys have been scraping by on the indies or finding success in the wrestling world for years. A decade, many of them; two decades for Jack Evans; three for Christopher Daniels. They've been living in the wrestling world that JR is describing. Jack Evans has found success in Japan and Mexico; Daniels helped put ROH on the map and kept buzz on TNA as they were getting onto TV. They did it by drawing people. People came, in person, and paid money to see these men wrestle at various times and places in the last 20 years. They earned their money by working, by putting on matches that people wanted to see, by promoting themselves and those matches. These guys have done the work, been in patches where every dollar in their bank account came from how well they could wrestle, from whether they could put on a show that an audience would pay for. And they wrestle in the style that JR is complaining about and have for around 20 years. And here's some 60+ year old guy who thinks they would have made more money if they wrestled like it was the 80's. Just a thought, JR - if they would have, they probably would have figured that out the hard way all on their own. I don't know how Tony Schaivone feels about the style he calls, and that feels important to note because he could well feel like it's too fast and too much. But he doesn't say it. He doesn't take that unprofessional step to actually be trashing the style of the action he's supposed to call in the ring. Not specific individuals who wronged him, not a story he doesn't like. Just the entire product that he's supposed to be a voice of. The way they work is wrong, the moves they do is wrong, nobody will listen to him who's telling them the right way to do their jobs. He's convinced he's a learning tree for these wrestlers, and he's resentful that nobody will treat him like he is. He's just another old man set in his idea of what wrestling is supposed to be who can't shut up about it and refuses to let the new generation--and in some cases, as you've pointed out, the generation or two of journeymen who are still around--do what they know works. It's not what Bill Watts would have booked, so it's wrong. Ross doesn't realize how little value his advice actually has. He's not full Cornette over it, but he's still completely blind to the reality of everything else about it. The audience wants what AEW is giving them, and to reverse course on that for Ross would be the equivalent of when WCW made throwing someone over the top rope a DQ again
|
|
Venti
Unicron
Posts: 2,994
|
Post by Venti on Dec 11, 2020 17:41:32 GMT -5
I've long since accepted that DDT's and superkicks will never be what they once were, but I agree with the other stuff J.R. said.
I've always hated it, in AEW, WWE and indies when everyone does the "stand together and look clueless so they can catch a guy doing his dive" spot.
That Bucks match on Dynamite for example, there was exciting moves, but I couldn't help but feel like "I've seen this match a million times before."
And there was so many moments where someone kicked out of a big move and I was like "this is being dragged out way too long."
They could have cut that match a bit and maybe give the women some more time.
But that's just my personal tastes though. I'm in my 20s, but I have the wrestling tastes of "out of touch old people" I accept that not everyone feels that way, and I won't say anything dickish to the people who prefer the more modern style.
Also, I think it was one of the most recent if not the newest episode of Grilling JR, and I could tell he even had his coffee or something. Conrad pointed it out too, Jim was all fired up and I loved it. Sometimes on Grilling he sounds like he'd rather take a nap, to me. When he has energy, he's super funny and entertaining.
|
|
AEW19
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 606
|
Post by AEW19 on Dec 11, 2020 17:59:22 GMT -5
I never followed much independent stuff but why would the Bucks change their style? They consistently get some of the best ratings. I'm pretty sure as well that they have had multiple segments that have went past a million viewers.
There would be no point in anyone changing their lucha style matches as Moxley, MJF, Wardlow, Eddie Kingston, Lance Archer, The Butcher and The Blade and many others work traditional style. I like the "Buffet" style of the company.
|
|
|
Post by Wilfred on Dec 11, 2020 18:01:00 GMT -5
I agree with JR about the guys huddling together on the outside thing. Me and a friend of mine use to joke about it ten years ago and it hasn’t changed. If it happened every once in a while that’s cool, but it happens multiple times a show and, in my opinion, makes them all look kinda ridiculous. Why are they always so close together like that?? Change it up!
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Dec 11, 2020 18:05:02 GMT -5
After going on that rant in two posts, I think it's worth clarifying:
I think that preferring an older style of wrestling is great. Hell, I still prefer 90's AJPW to almost anything today, and I love some old school US stuff. One of the reasons I like a lot of women's wrestling on the indies is that there are more women who stick to basic fundamentals and simpler moves instead of going completely out-there with the spots. (There's a related AEW rant in there, but that's for other discussions.) I love Will Hobbs and FTR matches because these guys wrestle a style that was never broken and I enjoy seeing it. I actually agree with him that big dives onto groups tend to be eyeroll-worthy.
But JR acting like he knows what draws better than guys who actually made their living by wrestling matches that got them money? That ticks me off, especially because he's in a position to help or hurt their careers on TV.
|
|
deezy
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,675
|
Post by deezy on Dec 11, 2020 18:15:19 GMT -5
I agree with JR about the guys huddling together on the outside thing. Me and a friend of mine use to joke about it ten years ago and it hasn’t changed. If it happened every once in a while that’s cool, but it happens multiple times a show and, in my opinion, makes them all look kinda ridiculous. Why are they always so close together like that?? Change it up! This ! JR isn't 100% wrong with what he said. Huddling outside the ring waiting.....and waiting......and waiting for someone to jump on them so they can all fall down is one of the most insulting spots in wrestling today. The fact the its used over and over and seems noone can get it right is ridiculous. That move alone instantly takes me out of any match its used in.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 11, 2020 18:22:30 GMT -5
He's not wrong but he's going on two diff tangents and wrestlers aren't going to like being talked down to especially from someone who constantly says sexist shit on air and doesn't give a f***
JR doesn't pick and choose his battles and more and more is morphing into that Cornette "I know better then you" mindset that is a big f***ing turn off
|
|