Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 15,980
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Dec 11, 2020 20:32:06 GMT -5
Eh, even if I think the standing in one spot thing is dumb looking, their audience is continuing to rise. At some point, things like this become nitpicks and not really worth me getting annoyed at someone over. I'd be more annoyed if he had thrown out more sexist af lines.
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Post by toodarkmark on Dec 11, 2020 21:03:43 GMT -5
Did anyone listen to the podcast? Whilst the rants did get a bit much this week for my taste he did state that even though he strongly believes all of this he understands that he might be wrong. Yeah I didnt take too much stock. I think he realizes stuff has passed him by, but he works with what he has, because it's good work. The spot is something that wrestlers did in ROH, in PWG, in Mexico, in Japan. It's wrong that just because he doesn't like it, and some percentage of fans don't like it, that wrestlers have to suddenly stop doing it. Wrestlers should do what they want, as long as it's not disrespectful or hurting someone. I hated rest holds and I still watched WWF and NWA in the 80s and every damn match had them. Just because I didn't like it, doesn't mean wrestlers have to stop something they need to do. Gathering and waiting helps avoid injuries, sorry it doesn't look real enough. Also, freaking headlocks used to be finishers Jim. The sport evolves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2020 21:23:33 GMT -5
Remember how JR complained about the young guys who would gaze off into the distance when he tried to give them advice? This is why. Just to name a name, Jack Evans has been wrestling longer longer than the Undertaker, Road Dogg, Billy Gunn, Stone Cold Steve Austin, X-Pac, and Triple H had been wrestling in 1998. Would JR have dared to give any of those guys advice on how to wrestle correctly back then? If he did, would he have been as dismissive of their disagreements as the wrestlers he's talking about today? I think it's safe to say that the answer is a resounding "Hell no." A lot of these guys have been scraping by on the indies or finding success in the wrestling world for years. A decade, many of them; two decades for Jack Evans; three for Christopher Daniels. They've been living in the wrestling world that JR is describing. Jack Evans has found success in Japan and Mexico; Daniels helped put ROH on the map and kept buzz on TNA as they were getting onto TV. They did it by drawing people. People came, in person, and paid money to see these men wrestle at various times and places in the last 20 years. They earned their money by working, by putting on matches that people wanted to see, by promoting themselves and those matches. These guys have done the work, been in patches where every dollar in their bank account came from how well they could wrestle, from whether they could put on a show that an audience would pay for. And they wrestle in the style that JR is complaining about and have for around 20 years. And here's some 60+ year old guy who thinks they would have made more money if they wrestled like it was the 80's. Just a thought, JR - if they would have, they probably would have figured that out the hard way all on their own. I don't know how Tony Schaivone feels about the style he calls, and that feels important to note because he could well feel like it's too fast and too much. But he doesn't say it. He doesn't take that unprofessional step to actually be trashing the style of the action he's supposed to call in the ring. Not specific individuals who wronged him, not a story he doesn't like. Just the entire product that he's supposed to be a voice of. The way they work is wrong, the moves they do is wrong, nobody will listen to him who's telling them the right way to do their jobs. He's convinced he's a learning tree for these wrestlers, and he's resentful that nobody will treat him like he is. He's just another old man set in his idea of what wrestling is supposed to be who can't shut up about it and refuses to let the new generation--and in some cases, as you've pointed out, the generation or two of journeymen who are still around--do what they know works. It's not what Bill Watts would have booked, so it's wrong. Ross doesn't realize how little value his advice actually has. He's not full Cornette over it, but he's still completely blind to the reality of everything else about it. The audience wants what AEW is giving them, and to reverse course on that for Ross would be the equivalent of when WCW made throwing someone over the top rope a DQ again Tony is a bit like Arn Anderson to me, in that they're both on record stating that there's a lot that annoys them about the "modern" style, but also understand that it sells. Arn, at least from what's been said of him as an agent, tries to modify tried and true old-school 'rasslin to fit with the spots the younger guys do nowadays. With Tony, it's more of a "I don't know what else they can do to up the ante anymore". Anyway, tangent of my own: Moves change. Yes, the DDT used to be a finisher. So was a vertical suplex. Things change, because crowds change. We all know it's a work at this point, and while I personally find it immersion breaking when guys all stand outside to catch someone diving from the outside, the crowd that paid money to come there obviously enjoys it. Instead of being upset about how a DDT isn't a finisher anymore, why doesn't he talk up about how Mox took the DDT and made it even more dangerous with the Paradigm Shift? Or that the superkick can be deadly an end a match when delivered by an expert, like Gentleman Chris Adams? Instead of being cranky about how "move x" isn't a finisher anymore, explain how the modified version is even more vicious, or how the person delivering it could learn a lesson from one of the old masters.
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Post by celtics543 on Dec 11, 2020 21:36:05 GMT -5
I understand it's selling so they aren't going to change but the Bucks aren't my cup of tea at all and I just don't understand what people see in them. They throw a million super kicks, use insider slang for their big moves, and do more flips than a trapeze artist in their matches. It's not my cup of tea and the constant high risk moves takes me out of the match. In my mind there's a difference between using a high flying style like the Hardy's or Rey Mysterio and just jumping around for no reason. At it's best pro wrestling is fake fighting that is made to look real. I can suspend disbelief when someone is hitting a moonsault or bouncing off the ropes but unnecessary jumping over the ropes just isn't what entertains me.
I can understand why people liked the TH2 vs Bucks match on Wednesday night but it was my least favorite match of the night. No selling. 10x more high spots than necessary in the time they had and nothing meant anything.
I respect all the success the Bucks have had or Jack Evans has had, those guys put their lives on the line every time they go out there. I just wish they mixed some selling in with those big time moves. Maybe use half the moves and sell twice as much.
JR is correct as far as I'm concerned but people are biased against him because of other things he's done.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Dec 11, 2020 21:46:29 GMT -5
Yeah! Everyone is doing the same shit!
Now excuse me while I watch Sting and Ric Flair have the same match for 15 years.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 11, 2020 22:03:26 GMT -5
Did anyone listen to the podcast? Whilst the rants did get a bit much this week for my taste he did state that even though he strongly believes all of this he understands that he might be wrong. That's what seperates JR's grumpy old man rants from the likes of a Cornette I just wish he'd also know he's wrong about some of the stuff he's said on commentary, he needs to put a pin in that way more than he needs to not liking some of the modern style tropes
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Dec 11, 2020 22:06:35 GMT -5
I like suicide dives lol
Also I have absolutely no problem with one wrestler using a move as a regular move and another using it as a finish. Shawn Michaels just has a more powerful superkick than other wrestlers. Maybe because he's good at it or maybe because he tunes up the band, whatever. If a new wrestler came along that still used the superkick as a finisher, maybe it would be a bit hard to swallow at first but I think I'd accept it the same way. Maybe not the superkick I guess, at least not without some kind of theatrics to make it special like the band tuning, but definitely with the DDT. Imo, it makes complete in-universe sense that one wrestler can finish a match with a move and another uses it as just a normal thing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 0:05:07 GMT -5
If you did the 10 punches standing in the corner spot without your opponent blocking or turtling up irl, you'd give them goddamn brain damage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 0:09:59 GMT -5
I like suicide dives lol Also I have absolutely no problem with one wrestler using a move as a regular move and another using it as a finish. Shawn Michaels just has a more powerful superkick than other wrestlers. Maybe because he's good at it or maybe because he tunes up the band, whatever. If a new wrestler came along that still used the superkick as a finisher, maybe it would be a bit hard to swallow at first but I think I'd accept it the same way. Maybe not the superkick I guess, at least not with some kind of theatrics to make it special like the band tuning, but definitely with the DDT. Imo, it makes complete in-universe sense that one wrestler can finish a match with a move and another uses it as just a normal thing. It's weird how fans can kayfabe things better than the professionals, sometimes. I think it's where the "professionals" get way too caught up in the work. Heck, since he's on the DDT so much, look at the way Jake delivered the DDT. To this day, I've not found anyone who can get that quick "snap" on the drop like Jake could. Arn Anderson did it different, Tommy Dreamer did it different, Raven did it different etc. End of the day, Jake's just looks the best, and looked the most impactful. That's why it's a 2 count for everybody else. Problem solved.
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Post by salvatoresincere on Dec 12, 2020 0:27:25 GMT -5
I never post, but just I have to say something here. Firstly, to those complaining about JR's tone and calling him old and whatnot, there's only 1 word to describe you, and yes I'm going to spell it out for you. S-A-W-F-T. Is this a forum for pro wrestling fans or for knitting enthusiasts? Toughen up and just state your rebuttal, no need to attack JR's character for stating his views.
Secondly, this guy has recruited and signed the biggest names in the history of wrestling, in addition to being involved in the biggest money-making matches in the history of wrestling. If he's willing to give advice to today's talent they should be listening carefully and taking notes with a damn pen!
The big dives are ridiculously stupid and the suicide dives in every match are pointless. I love AEW but these are the exact things that need to be eliminated immediately. Shawn Michaels had the same high-flying style as today's wrestlers, did he do suicide dives in every match? 27 finishing moves per match? JR is 100% right about this, if Shawn Michaels can make millions of dollars with less moves then so can Jack Evans or the Young Bucks. They're using spike piledrivers on the floor as a set-up move for God's sake!!!!
And for a guy like Brandon Cutler to ridicule Jim Ross is simply insane. Cutler's never drawn a dime and will never amount to anything unless he puts down his phone and starts learning from the legends rather than laughing at them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 0:36:47 GMT -5
Is this a forum for pro wrestling fans or for knitting enthusiasts? Toughen up and just state your rebuttal, no need to attack JR's character for stating his views. Going to say this once: Don't tell others how to post again.
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Venti
Unicron
Posts: 2,993
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Post by Venti on Dec 12, 2020 0:37:55 GMT -5
Man, now I got Enzo Amore's theme stuck in my head.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 1:01:12 GMT -5
So is the Garter Stitch going over this year, or not?
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,396
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Dec 12, 2020 1:05:01 GMT -5
I swear posts that start with "I never post here, but-" never end well here, and that streak lives on...
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Post by toodarkmark on Dec 12, 2020 1:57:11 GMT -5
Guess I have to give up knitting.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Dec 12, 2020 2:13:22 GMT -5
I like suicide dives lol Also I have absolutely no problem with one wrestler using a move as a regular move and another using it as a finish. Shawn Michaels just has a more powerful superkick than other wrestlers. Maybe because he's good at it or maybe because he tunes up the band, whatever. If a new wrestler came along that still used the superkick as a finisher, maybe it would be a bit hard to swallow at first but I think I'd accept it the same way. Maybe not the superkick I guess, at least not with some kind of theatrics to make it special like the band tuning, but definitely with the DDT. Imo, it makes complete in-universe sense that one wrestler can finish a match with a move and another uses it as just a normal thing. Hell when someone asked Jake what he thought about the DDT being a mid match move done by like everyone... his response was more less they haven't been doing it correctly or it would be the end. with the idea being... if you master the move it's a straight match ender. so basically anyone else has figured out how to do pull off the move but the guy using it as a finisher has PERFECTED the move
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Dec 12, 2020 2:14:13 GMT -5
I never post, but just I have to say something here. Firstly, to those complaining about JR's tone and calling him old and whatnot, there's only 1 word to describe you, and yes I'm going to spell it out for you. S-A-W-F-T. Is this a forum for pro wrestling fans or for knitting enthusiasts? Toughen up and just state your rebuttal, no need to attack JR's character for stating his views. Secondly, this guy has recruited and signed the biggest names in the history of wrestling, in addition to being involved in the biggest money-making matches in the history of wrestling. If he's willing to give advice to today's talent they should be listening carefully and taking notes with a damn pen! The big dives are ridiculously stupid and the suicide dives in every match are pointless. I love AEW but these are the exact things that need to be eliminated immediately. Shawn Michaels had the same high-flying style as today's wrestlers, did he do suicide dives in every match? 27 finishing moves per match? JR is 100% right about this, if Shawn Michaels can make millions of dollars with less moves then so can Jack Evans or the Young Bucks. They're using spike piledrivers on the floor as a set-up move for God's sake!!!! And for a guy like Brandon Cutler to ridicule Jim Ross is simply insane. Cutler's never drawn a dime and will never amount to anything unless he puts down his phone and starts learning from the legends rather than laughing at them. Been a min since I got to use this
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2020 2:31:58 GMT -5
I like suicide dives lol Also I have absolutely no problem with one wrestler using a move as a regular move and another using it as a finish. Shawn Michaels just has a more powerful superkick than other wrestlers. Maybe because he's good at it or maybe because he tunes up the band, whatever. If a new wrestler came along that still used the superkick as a finisher, maybe it would be a bit hard to swallow at first but I think I'd accept it the same way. Maybe not the superkick I guess, at least not with some kind of theatrics to make it special like the band tuning, but definitely with the DDT. Imo, it makes complete in-universe sense that one wrestler can finish a match with a move and another uses it as just a normal thing. Hell when someone asked Jake what he thought about the DDT being a mid match move done by like everyone... his response was more less they haven't been doing it correctly or it would be the end. with the idea being... if you master the move it's a straight match ender. so basically anyone else has figured out how to do pull off the move but the guy using it as a finisher has PERFECTED the move Imagine a segment of Jake trying to teach the DDT to Archer and Archer just keeps getting it wrong. I don't know why I find that funny.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Dec 12, 2020 3:58:23 GMT -5
Well now we know Jim Ross's FAN account
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Derk!
Hank Scorpio
Yeah, "looks like."
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Post by Derk! on Dec 12, 2020 6:00:55 GMT -5
Hell when someone asked Jake what he thought about the DDT being a mid match move done by like everyone... his response was more less they haven't been doing it correctly or it would be the end. with the idea being... if you master the move it's a straight match ender. so basically anyone else has figured out how to do pull off the move but the guy using it as a finisher has PERFECTED the move Imagine a segment of Jake trying to teach the DDT to Archer and Archer just keeps getting it wrong. I don't know why I find that funny. Like when Taker tried teaching Kane the Last Ride on Kaeintai and he kept messing up on it, yet destroying them in the process.
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