Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 18, 2020 7:58:57 GMT -5
"They couldn't/wouldn't do ____ today!" Probably not, no, but they also wouldn't have done that 10-20 years before whatever show or movie you're talking about, either. Things made tend to be a reflection of their time and prevailing tastes. We didn't lose something precious when people got more and more unimpressed with, "This guy has a dress on. I hope you find that hilarious, because that's the entire joke." "Friends was never funny, I have no idea how it lasted so long and nobody watched it!" (You can replace 'Friends' with 'Big Bang Theory' and it applies as well) It was on for a decade for a reason. Making blanket statements that "nobody watched the show" is just kinda dumb Friends is weird because, there was a lot of bland stuff at times, but you'd also get some really funny things like Monica having to make Joey a foreskin out of lunchmeat for an acting job where Joey didn't want to admit to being circumcised and risk losing the job. I am not making that up, this was actually an episode. If people want to get on the show's case for some deserved criticisms (New York being VERY WHITE, the characters getting more cartoonish towards the end because the show honestly went on too long for its own good due to being very popular, Ross and Rachel's tedious relationship drama, etc.), they should also give it some credit for stuff it did well. Similarly, I don't like Big Bang Theory. I have zero respect for how they coded Sheldon heavily as autistic without having the guts to admit that and be scrutinized for that accordingly. It also seemed to like having its cake and eating it too when it came to whether or not it wanted to address misogyny from the characters. All that being said, it got a lot of Emmy nods for a reason. It had an all-star cast of sitcom talents, like various Roseanne alumni among others. The material didn't impress me, but it was delivered well.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 18, 2020 8:00:14 GMT -5
Yeah, honestly I was just joking with the Simpsons one. Can we just say that people put way too much stock in the opinions of Internet Reviewers. "Oh, you didn't like the new Nav album? Neither did a lot of people." Sir I will watch Anthony Fantano cutting up Nav every chance I get. But to each his own...
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Dec 18, 2020 8:00:18 GMT -5
I don't think this is true at all. There absolutely have been cultural zeitgeists, it's just not the stuff that's relevant to a 35 year old old guy like me. I think a lot of people who say this kind of thing aren't considering that it tends to be much younger people who create those cultural touchstones than they are. Essentially "I used to be with it but then it changed and what it is now seems strange and alien". This kinda happened recently on this YouTube channel I watch, the Punk Rock MBA. He did a video about these 2 kids who blew up in music that got their start on TikTok. The vid ended up getting like no views because by his own estimation his audience skews much older and didn't know or care about it. Saw that same video and it was very much on my mind when I made that post.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 18, 2020 8:23:38 GMT -5
Yeah, honestly I was just joking with the Simpsons one. Can we just say that people put way too much stock in the opinions of Internet Reviewers. "Oh, you didn't like the new Nav album? Neither did a lot of people." Sir I will watch Anthony Fantano cutting up Nav every chance I get. But to each his own... Logic retired, and Trapt fired their singer for being a dipshit, he has to mock somebody.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Dec 18, 2020 8:34:59 GMT -5
There are a lot of things that have been successful commercially or that have garnered a big following, but very few that I would say have reflected the wider culture. There are no more widely-shared cultural experiences that people are conscious of and affected by even if they aren't actively engaged with them, and I would say as a millennial that nothing has ever really culturally defined my generation. There are a few essays and articles and things about this; Douglas Coupland actually suggested this in 2010, that everything is now so readily available and lives are so "customised" that there are no broad cultural "megatrends" anymore. I think the way the cultural industries work has changed too.
I'd argue that's not a statement about quality, more about the options and diversity of choice now. It's easier to have a zeitgeist when there's only 3 channels against hundreds plus the almost limitless content online. That's pretty much it, yeah. There is now so much "choice" that a "megatrend" almost can't exist anymore. The quality of individual works is probably as good and bad as it ever was, but pop culture as a broad thing is different.
There are things that have been enormously popular but there hasn't been a broad, overarching "movement" that permeated pretty much all aspects of pop culture and have been experienced by the collective.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 18, 2020 8:35:57 GMT -5
I don't think this is true at all. Seeing him trending on Twitter for a new album, in 2000-2002 or so, you couldn’t go 8 feet without hearing someone blaring Eminem. Dude was everywhere. Now, I’d be hard pressed to say the last I’ve ever heard someone mention him. He’s still popular obviously but he kind of went away in pop culture. Em’s still a cultural force who can move numbers with the hip hop fandom, his stuff will top charts. He’s just not the cultural fad he was, or the controversial rapper parents don’t want their kids liking anymore in the way Tekashi and the late XXX was/were.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 18, 2020 8:49:39 GMT -5
I guess with me, it’s the idea- and it’s been a thing for a while since Marvel started the X-Men and had their socially conscious stories in the 70s, but especially in the post-HBO Watchmen and post-Boys era, that superhero and comic media has to strive for super seriousness and deep meaning to be considered worthwhile or worthy of awards.
It’s often to different degrees with various people, and also part of larger sentiments relating to entertainment in general, but I noticed it hard when I saw a ton of fans of Joker 2019 that were down on Shazam for whatever reason.
And like, to each their own, like what you like, but I wouldn’t want every superhero property to strive for as much heaviness as HBO Watchmen. Just in the same vein that I think The Wire is a great program, but I also wouldn’t ask for every crime show I watch to be that serious for me to enjoy it either. Right now we’re in a heavy “prestige TV” era, so especially now there’s gonna be a strong value in escapist entertainment on the other side of the coin. I think you need those Guardians-style romps, things like Thor Ragnarok, or Legends of Tomorrow, to give the audience a break once in a while.
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ERON
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Post by ERON on Dec 18, 2020 9:04:35 GMT -5
"The Ewoks couldn't have defeated the Imperial forces on Endor."
History is full of examples of small guerrilla forces winning significant battles on their own turf against larger, better-trained invading forces. The Battle of Endor has a lot of similarities to the real-life Battle of Teutoburg Forest, where local German tribes ambushed and wiped out three Roman legions.
"Stormtroopers are terrible shots."
The reason Luke and his friends were always able to escape legions of Stormtroopers without getting hit is because Vader had ordered the troopers to let them get away so they could track them back to the Rebel base. Leia even points this out to Luke and Han at one point.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 18, 2020 9:11:23 GMT -5
"The Ewoks couldn't have defeated the Imperial forces on Endor." History is full of examples of small guerrilla forces winning significant battles on their own turf against larger, better-trained invading forces. The Battle of Endor has a lot of similarities to the real-life Battle of Teutoburg Forest, where local German tribes ambushed and wiped out three Roman legions. "Stormtroopers are terrible shots." The reason Luke and his friends were always able to escape legions of Stormtroopers without getting hit is because Vader had ordered the troopers to let them get away so they could track them back to the Rebel base. Leia even points this out to Luke and Han at one point. Hell, you don't have to go back that far, Vietnam had just happened and was a big influence. More recent conflicts like the quagmires in Afghanistan and Iraq show that, so anyone arguing a native force using it's environment to defeat a technologically superior foe, well that's just silly.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Dec 18, 2020 9:45:57 GMT -5
Plus Ewoks are stated via lore to be as strong as grizzly bears
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Dec 18, 2020 10:14:36 GMT -5
"Friends was never funny, I have no idea how it lasted so long and nobody watched it!" (You can replace 'Friends' with 'Big Bang Theory' and it applies as well) It was on for a decade for a reason. Making blanket statements that "nobody watched the show" is just kinda dumb Friends is weird because, there was a lot of bland stuff at times, but you'd also get some really funny things like Monica having to make Joey a foreskin out of lunchmeat for an acting job where Joey didn't want to admit to being circumcised and risk losing the job. I am not making that up, this was actually an episode. If people want to get on the show's case for some deserved criticisms (New York being VERY WHITE, the characters getting more cartoonish towards the end because the show honestly went on too long for its own good due to being very popular, Ross and Rachel's tedious relationship drama, etc.), they should also give it some credit for stuff it did well. Similarly, I don't like Big Bang Theory. I have zero respect for how they coded Sheldon heavily as autistic without having the guts to admit that and be scrutinized for that accordingly. It also seemed to like having its cake and eating it too when it came to whether or not it wanted to address misogyny from the characters. All that being said, it got a lot of Emmy nods for a reason. It had an all-star cast of sitcom talents, like various Roseanne alumni among others. The material didn't impress me, but it was delivered well. Oh, don't get me wrong for a second, Friends had it's glaring issues, even without the ability of hindsight. They Flanderized the hell out of the cast and I agree that that it limped along 2 seasons longer than it really should have. But decreeing in 2020 that it wasn't a MASSIVELY popular show for a reason is just silly. Same with BBT. For me, it's one of those shows I didn't keep up with week to week ,but thanks to being rerun a zillion times a week on TBS, I'll find myself flipping it on and thinking "I can watch an episode or 2". Not my favorite show, but I completely understand why people do like it
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Post by Sponsored by Groose Wipes on Dec 18, 2020 10:41:39 GMT -5
-Every piece of media that's aimed for kids needs to have a dark gritty adult version of itself.
-Cursing = better/funnier
-Stickerbrush Symphony is the best song in Donkey Kong Country 2: Forest Interlude blows it out of the water.
-Rock arrangements in a video game song always makes it better.
-My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is this underrated hidden gem that no one talked about when it aired. That cartoon was an animation phenomenon
-Sonic was never good: Anyone that says this was born after 2004. Sonic was great until about Sonic Heroes/Shadow. Hell some of the newer games like Colors, Generations, and Mania are also great. So saying this now is flat out wrong.
-McDonalds has the best fries: Have you had Arby's curly fries? Like come on.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Dec 18, 2020 13:17:53 GMT -5
“Fast food is so gross...”.
No. No it’s not.
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Post by Chiral on Dec 18, 2020 14:05:51 GMT -5
If I never see a single post online about the sequel trilogy again it'll be a day too soon. I hate saying "these movies helped me during a really rough patch so they have a special place in my heart" to people and get like a reaction of "ok that doesn't matter to me but let me explain why they're complete shit." It's inescapable during SW talk online for like any SW subject now so it's got me pretty much noped out of the fandom.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Dec 18, 2020 14:14:46 GMT -5
If I never see a single post online about the sequel trilogy again it'll be a day too soon. I hate saying "these movies helped me during a really rough patch so they have a special place in my heart" to people and get like a reaction of "ok that doesn't matter to me but let me explain why they're complete shit." It's inescapable during SW talk online for like any SW subject now so it's got me pretty much noped out of the fandom. Yeah, too many SW fans are focused on the idea of "the series should always be the way I envision it". It's got a bunch of different scopes and tones, and there's Star War material all kinds of folks can get into. The weakest SW film to me is Attack of the Clones (I think it's a bit dull in spots). I'd watch that or any SW film over something like I dunno, Catwoman or Disaster Movie again.
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Post by agent817 on Dec 18, 2020 16:00:53 GMT -5
“Fast food is so gross...”. No. No it’s not. I often feel people say this because it's apparent that fast food is not the best food that one should consume. By that, health-wise, it's not really good for you. But taste-wise, a lot of it tastes good. Of course, it's all subjective. Some people try to act all high and mighty about it.
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Post by aka Cthulhu on Dec 18, 2020 16:05:28 GMT -5
Pizza. Particularly pineapple on pizza, who cares, eat what you like. Same with style or where you get it from. Although it is kind of interesting pineapple replaced anchovies as the questionable topping of discussion. This is where I'm at when it comes to pizza. Will I eat pineapple or anchovies on pizza? Probably not, but if you like it, eat it. I'm not gonna stop you. Honestly, I always just assumed that the pineapple on pizza bit was just people lightheartedly jabbing the food tastes of other people, and nothing more than that. Pineapple isn't exactly an ingredient I'd specifically ask for in pizza, and most pizzas I'd buy don't have them anyway, but I won't refuse a pizza that has pineapple on it. Even BBQ sauce, which I don't feel is suited for pizza... I'd still eat it if offered, not necessarily buy it for a whole pizza in any case.
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 18, 2020 16:19:34 GMT -5
"You can't make jokes about *insert upsetting subject matter here* anymore without people getting upset!"
So you're telling me we've become more aware of people's feelings and have to use some actual creativity with humour? Where's the negative?
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Post by Cyno on Dec 18, 2020 16:50:56 GMT -5
"The Ewoks couldn't have defeated the Imperial forces on Endor." History is full of examples of small guerrilla forces winning significant battles on their own turf against larger, better-trained invading forces. The Battle of Endor has a lot of similarities to the real-life Battle of Teutoburg Forest, where local German tribes ambushed and wiped out three Roman legions. "Stormtroopers are terrible shots." The reason Luke and his friends were always able to escape legions of Stormtroopers without getting hit is because Vader had ordered the troopers to let them get away so they could track them back to the Rebel base. Leia even points this out to Luke and Han at one point. 100% right on the Ewoks. Lucas was a huge anti-imperialist with his personal world view, with Nazi Germany and the Cold War-era United States as his major inspirations for the Empire's methods and tactics. One of the few constants about development of the Star Wars movies is that Lucas wanted a technologically inferior force to be a significant contributor to the Empire's downfall.
Stormtroopers were also mostly competent. Most of them were also conscripts by the time of the original trilogy, so there's only so much you can get out of them. So while there were elite squadrons of stormtroopers, there were also cannon fodder that the Empire viewed as entirely expendable but pure numbers gave them an advantage. Same with the TIE Fighters. TIE Fighters were designed to be cheap and expendable so they could overwhelm with numbers.
Probably no surprise that the First Order reevaluated the old Empire's approach to troops and vehicles. First Order Stromtroopers were indoctrinated and trained from small children and their standard TIE Fighters had shields and more durable armor. While the standard X-Wing had a decisive advantage over an Imperial TIE/ln Fighter, it was a lot more even between them and a First Order TIE/fo Fighter.
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Post by wildojinx on Dec 18, 2020 17:44:45 GMT -5
"<Insert band/singer here> were better when they were on drugs". No, no they werent. This isnt just some "drugs are bad" thing, but the drugs didnt give them any musical ability, if anything, the fact that they were strung out probably made it harder to be in the right mind to record music. The weird thing is that this statement only applies to music. I mean, (I hope) nobody says stuff like "Robert Downey Jr was a better actor when he was on drugs".
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