|
Post by HMARK Center on Dec 21, 2020 8:08:29 GMT -5
Nah. No, I’m really sorry, I just can’t with this one. I don’t care how people feel about Charlotte, Asuka has gotten one of the biggest pushes any woman’s ever gotten in WWE history. You’re all free to feel that way, it’s not a big deal. But I can’t see how this is a fair topic. I agree it's a push, but I think the (arguably over)reaction is a side effect of people feeling like they've been led to feel titles don't mean much in WWE. If the titles don't mean much, then they need to feel like their favorites are getting better character development and interesting feuds to compensate; if they feel they're not getting that, then they're left with "he/she is champion, that's great, but it doesn't feel like it matters."
|
|
lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,695
Member is Online
|
Post by lucas_lee on Dec 21, 2020 8:36:15 GMT -5
She was one of the few to beat prime Becky during the hottest stages of "The Man" phase. If anyone got shafted from this its Kari Sane. Asuka is getting pushed hard that some IWC fans are saying she's being pushed down our throats haha
|
|
|
Post by MrElijah on Dec 21, 2020 9:06:21 GMT -5
Asuka is the most pushed non American since Bret. Hell, her booking is similar to Bret in the sense she's a top worker but can go down a bit and the only difference is she's taken more losses. The looming presence of Charlotte is the consequence of Vince on how he books people. Charlotte has earned her spot, but the road that Vince created is ass backwards at times. Look at the two times Charlotte beat Asuka for a belt, Charlotte didn't need to win and 2nd one didn't need to happen because that was bad story telling. But the thing that helps and hurts Asuka is that she's near teflon. Dumb shit, goofy, funny, awesome, badass, she can get it over. Without English. She stands out in way her peers can't. The problem isn't Asuka's push, it's the guy booking this shit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 9:14:59 GMT -5
For me it's basically this: Asuka has won titles and been given accolades but, except for the buildup to Mania 34 (which in retrospect was done to make Charlotte's win look that much more impressive), has never been booked as the focal point of the women's division on the main roster. Even when she's champion she's still secondary to the main characters - hell, her first Raw Women's Title run this year came from Becky Lynch basically saying "I trust you to hold this for me while I'm out." You don't book a woman you actually care about to win the title via a retcon.
|
|
|
Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Dec 21, 2020 9:16:27 GMT -5
I don't really understand this. With the possible exception of Charlotte there isn't anybody whose more protected in the women's division than Asuka is. The thing that's hurting her reign (and Becky's too, really) is that WWE has been utterly terrible at giving her credible opponents.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Dec 21, 2020 10:18:19 GMT -5
I don't really understand this. With the possible exception of Charlotte there isn't anybody whose more protected in the women's division than Asuka is. The thing that's hurting her reign (and Becky's too, really) is that WWE has been utterly terrible at giving her credible opponents. I think that’s probably the larger overriding point in all of this: it’s not that Asuka isn’t pushed in the traditional sense of the word, it’s that without strong challengers to play off of we don’t see her full character getting pushed. A title reign should tell a story, be it the champion’s or the challengers’ assorted stories. But if there are no strong contenders, if the bookers don’t put the effort into building contenders up with clear motivations and character arcs or roles to play in a larger arc, then it just falls flat and it feels like we’re going through the motions: “you have belt, I want belt, let’s fight”, but nothing changes in the grand scheme. The OP is referencing some conversations around here of late, how Asuka could have so many accomplishments and seem so protected but still not feel like as big a deal as she should be, which is where the “pushed but not really pushed” talking point came from; I get people not agreeing with or not grasping what that’s saying. But I do think it’s a big point and a terrible habit WWE’s been in for years and years, just putting a belt on someone without any sort of endgame or bigger story/character arc in mind, and when that’s combined with booking almost every possible challenger like shit it leaves the top names feeling stale and “underpushed” relative to where it feels they should be.
|
|
|
Post by theironyuppie on Dec 21, 2020 10:31:36 GMT -5
Asuka is the most pushed non American since Bret. Hell, her booking is similar to Bret in the sense she's a top worker but can go down a bit and the only difference is she's taken more losses. The looming presence of Charlotte is the consequence of Vince on how he books people. Charlotte has earned her spot, but the road that Vince created is ass backwards at times. Look at the two times Charlotte beat Asuka for a belt, Charlotte didn't need to win and 2nd one didn't need to happen because that was bad story telling. But the thing that helps and hurts Asuka is that she's near teflon. Dumb shit, goofy, funny, awesome, badass, she can get it over. Without English. She stands out in way her peers can't. The problem isn't Asuka's push, it's the guy booking this shit.
The second one was done to let 'Becky Two Belts' happen at WM 35--the actual SDL title change match was a damn good one, too, they got a few more minutes than WM 34 (which was a packed 13 minutes, but still only 13 minutes) and took advantage.
|
|
rocket
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,801
|
Post by rocket on Dec 21, 2020 10:38:08 GMT -5
As usual, this doesn't feel like anything new. When Punk had that year-plus long title reign you never really got the feeling that he was actually being pushed as the top guy.
|
|
kidkamikaze10
Dennis Stamp
Trying to think of a new avatar
Posts: 4,274
|
Post by kidkamikaze10 on Dec 21, 2020 10:46:14 GMT -5
Asuka is definitely in a Taker in the Attitude Era role. Yes, the spotlight is on the 4HW, but she's the fifth wheel always in the mix.
It's the 4HW + Asuka. She's the only person in the main roster right now that is a legit threat to the 4HW at any point.
|
|
|
Post by romanstylesiii on Dec 21, 2020 14:36:55 GMT -5
Never before have titles meant less. It's more about a spot on the card than having any title anymore
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 14:54:32 GMT -5
I'm thinking that Charlotte in general's caused some confusion around people's opinion towards Asuka's booking. It's the same thing that happened with Becky with people assuming that Becky wasn't at the top of the totem pole in WWE. People assumed Charlotte was still cutting her down even though Becky got one over on her damn near each time they faced once Becky turned into The Man. Still, Charlotte as a whole caused people to either miss, lie about, be confused and/or just couldn't accept that Becky was getting her due against Charlotte, Charlotte was just too great.
Asuka's booking is straight insane and she's loss clean less times than Charlotte. Like, bruh we gotta call it like it is.
The "Fear of the Queen Syndrome" is real.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Dec 21, 2020 16:12:54 GMT -5
I'm thinking that Charlotte in general's caused some confusion around people's opinion towards Asuka's booking. It's the same thing that happened with Becky with people assuming that Becky wasn't at the top of the totem pole in WWE. People assumed Charlotte was still cutting her down even though Becky got one over on her damn near each time they faced once Becky turned into The Man. Still, Charlotte as a whole caused people to either miss, lie about, be confused and/or just couldn't accept that Becky was getting her due against Charlotte, Charlotte was just too great. Asuka's booking is straight insane and she's loss clean less times than Charlotte. Like, bruh we gotta call it like it is. The "Fear of the Queen Syndrome" is real. Again though, I think people are very aware of her record; reading what a lot of them are saying, it sounds less like "she loses too much" and more "nothing she does feels like it matters enough."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 17:11:24 GMT -5
I'm thinking that Charlotte in general's caused some confusion around people's opinion towards Asuka's booking. It's the same thing that happened with Becky with people assuming that Becky wasn't at the top of the totem pole in WWE. People assumed Charlotte was still cutting her down even though Becky got one over on her damn near each time they faced once Becky turned into The Man. Still, Charlotte as a whole caused people to either miss, lie about, be confused and/or just couldn't accept that Becky was getting her due against Charlotte, Charlotte was just too great. Asuka's booking is straight insane and she's loss clean less times than Charlotte. Like, bruh we gotta call it like it is. The "Fear of the Queen Syndrome" is real. Again though, I think people are very aware of her record; reading what a lot of them are saying, it sounds less like "she loses too much" and more "nothing she does feels like it matters enough." As of right now I think the only thing Asuka can do to get rid of that is to somehow win the SD world title and then be called "Asuka 3 Belts." She's beaten the best, she's got 2 belts, yeah she isn't getting the Becky-like focus where she's the headliner of everything but then again Becky was the first woman to receive that. Besides that there's nothing else that'll work. Charlotte in a storyline with her only emphasizes that Charlotte is dope and we know her past. Had it been someone like say Lana it wouldn't have worked and even someone higher like say Bayley, I doubt that would work too.
Asuka's basically the female Edge with her accomplishments rather than the John Cena.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Dec 21, 2020 18:40:39 GMT -5
Again though, I think people are very aware of her record; reading what a lot of them are saying, it sounds less like "she loses too much" and more "nothing she does feels like it matters enough." As of right now I think the only thing Asuka can do to get rid of that is to somehow win the SD world title and then be called "Asuka 3 Belts." She's beaten the best, she's got 2 belts, yeah she isn't getting the Becky-like focus where she's the headliner of everything but then again Becky was the first woman to receive that. Besides that there's nothing else that'll work. Charlotte in a storyline with her only emphasizes that Charlotte is dope and we know her past. Had it been someone like say Lana it wouldn't have worked and even someone higher like say Bayley, I doubt that would work too.
Asuka's basically the female Edge with her accomplishments rather than the John Cena.
I disagree: what they could do is not have any belts on her, or one belt, or all belts, it doesn't matter, just give her a character-driven storyline/feud where people get to see her grow, change, or otherwise impact the world around her besides just being "really good wrestler who has title runs sometimes". We get so caught up in title wins and whatnot that it's easy to lose sight of the fact that I think a lot of fans would be thrilled if they could just know their favorites will be in consequential storylines and feuds, to the point where they wouldn't need their favorites to have belts in order to feel good about them.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,045
|
Post by Mozenrath on Dec 21, 2020 18:45:42 GMT -5
She is definitely pushed. They don't frame her as THE face of a division like they did in NXT, but even on the main roster, she's typically been one of the most credible women and often used, and seems to be presented as on the same level as the Horsewomen way more often than not, and probably higher tier than Alexa, Nia, or anyone on that level, much less the tons of has-beens and never-was under those. I am not sure if anyone has more wins over Becky than her, offhand.
So yeah, I don't agree with the thesis statement. The Undertaker comparison made earlier on totally applies with her. She's someone they rely on to be slotted in at any time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 18:47:56 GMT -5
Honestly, I think we all know why she hasn't got the mega push she deserves.
Its because she doesn't speak (good) English... Or at least she doesn't on TV anyway.
Its backwards as f*** because you have guys like Khabib in UFC who are massively marketable and yet do most of their promos in a foreign language.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2020 18:58:03 GMT -5
As of right now I think the only thing Asuka can do to get rid of that is to somehow win the SD world title and then be called "Asuka 3 Belts." She's beaten the best, she's got 2 belts, yeah she isn't getting the Becky-like focus where she's the headliner of everything but then again Becky was the first woman to receive that. Besides that there's nothing else that'll work. Charlotte in a storyline with her only emphasizes that Charlotte is dope and we know her past. Had it been someone like say Lana it wouldn't have worked and even someone higher like say Bayley, I doubt that would work too.
Asuka's basically the female Edge with her accomplishments rather than the John Cena.
I disagree: what they could do is not have any belts on her, or one belt, or all belts, it doesn't matter, just give her a character-driven storyline/feud where people get to see her grow, change, or otherwise impact the world around her besides just being "really good wrestler who has title runs sometimes". We get so caught up in title wins and whatnot that it's easy to lose sight of the fact that I think a lot of fans would be thrilled if they could just know their favorites will be in consequential storylines and feuds, to the point where they wouldn't need their favorites to have belts in order to feel good about them. I wasn't serious about the Asuka 3 Belts thing, I was being sarcastic because her having belts doesn't really help her out. A great storyline would help but at the end of the day this company just has a problem putting most of their great storylines in with belt holders or someone like I don't know, Wyatt. Hypothetically say she loses her belts by the Rumble and say she gets in a singles feud, maybe they can do something with Shayna and her and see if it works out. While yeah its cool she's a champion like you said its not all about belts at the end of the day. You take away the belts and you have more focus on the talent.
|
|
|
Post by BatPunk on Dec 21, 2020 19:22:26 GMT -5
I get what everyone is saying on her from both sides and comparing runs and reigns are always gonna suck.
So this is my take.
Asuka, outside of NXT, has never really been booked like an unstoppable champ where The 4HW definitely have.
Asuka is ALWAYS a killer and is one of the very few wrestler in the WWE who’s reputation is that they can beat ANYONE at ANYTIME.
I think her NXT run hurt her for the Main Roster. We expected Goro and got Johnny Cage.
|
|
Hypnosis
T
Posts: 97,443
Member is Online
|
Post by Hypnosis on Dec 21, 2020 19:32:32 GMT -5
I get what everyone is saying on her from both sides and comparing runs and reigns are always gonna suck. So this is my take. Asuka, outside of NXT, has never really been booked like an unstoppable champ where The 4HW definitely have. Asuka is ALWAYS a killer and is one of the very few wrestler in the WWE who’s reputation is that they can beat ANYONE at ANYTIME. I think her NXT run hurt her for the Main Roster. We expected Goro and got Johnny Cage. She should start doing split-leg low blows to her opponents' vags.
|
|
|
Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on Dec 21, 2020 20:11:41 GMT -5
She is definitely pushed. They don't frame her as THE face of a division like they did in NXT, but even on the main roster, she's typically been one of the most credible women and often used, and seems to be presented as on the same level as the Horsewomen way more often than not, and probably higher tier than Alexa, Nia, or anyone on that level, much less the tons of has-beens and never-was under those. I am not sure if anyone has more wins over Becky than her, offhand. So yeah, I don't agree with the thesis statement. The Undertaker comparison made earlier on totally applies with her. She's someone they rely on to be slotted in at any time. This is a backhanded compliment, though, right? "Yeah, you're good enough to be on top, but only when wrestlers A, B, and C aren't around. Otherwise, don't call us, we'll call you." It's the company saying that somebody is good, but not good enough, and that's only a real stick in the craw when the Asukas of the wrestling world are not getting as much money as the other women at the top.
|
|