Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,021
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Dec 31, 2020 5:14:13 GMT -5
2. I was okay with the empty ring because, realistically, why wouldn't there be an empty ring sometimes. Drew Carey came to an empty ring and...ok, bad example. That's actually not true. The Hardys were fighting each other when Drew Carey entered, and they went out at the same time as Drew got to the ring. Not quite the same thing as the ring having literally nobody in it multiple times. It was timed to perfection, as Drew gets to the ring, the Hardyz eliminate each other. Drew gets a couple of seconds to wave and be "hey, this is easy" as the timer runs down and out comes Kane of all people, there's the dread of the biggest monster in the company coming down to get this middle aged celebrity. You can tell Kane is savouring the moment, so he takes so long Raven gets to run down and break it up. Not a second of empty, wasted airtime like you had in 99.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,038
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 31, 2020 5:40:56 GMT -5
2015 was one of those situations where, on paper, a lot of it makes sense. Heels beat on heroes, get heat, someone eliminates them. The main issue was that, this wasn't in a vacuum, and like Street Fighter X Tekken having bad box art Mega Man in what wasn't intended as a slight, but came as Capcom had cancelled like 3 Mega Man games and was dragging its heels doing anything with the character, 2015's Rumble was probably the height of Roman ill-will.
Did WWE intended 2015 to shit on fan favorites? No. I don't actually think they did. I don't think it was supposed to be "you like these geeks?" I think they thought, "Fans love these guys, so surely, Roman will get the boost for taking out the hated heels!", since this was well into WWE's trouble at connecting to fans who they have become quite sheltered from. They were absolutely tone-deaf.
I am absolutely not saying WWE wasn't being cynical. They were, trying to use the popularity of the slain faces to boost Roman, but they botched it so badly that it made it seem more like they were trying to bury the other guys. WWE's go-to strategies for heat need retiring, or at least, retooling, and this was one of the clearest examples.
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Post by The Barber on Dec 31, 2020 7:33:40 GMT -5
I've defended the 1999 Rumble numerous times and is my favorite Rumble. 1. It told a story. The McMahon-Austin story was still hot and this Rumble was a continuation of it. 2. I was okay with the empty ring because, realistically, why wouldn't there be an empty ring sometimes. Drew Carey came to an empty ring and...ok, bad example. 3. The Oddities got a reaction from the crowd that most of the wrestlers today would kill for. I know it's a bit off topic but the 1999 Royal Rumble is not only my favorite Rumble but one of my top five favorite PPV's of all time. Yeah, I said it. That I-Quit match was epic.
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Post by eJm on Dec 31, 2020 7:41:57 GMT -5
I am absolutely not saying WWE wasn't being cynical. They were, trying to use the popularity of the slain faces to boost Roman, but they botched it so badly that it made it seem more like they were trying to bury the other guys. WWE's go-to strategies for heat need retiring, or at least, retooling, and this was one of the clearest examples. And again, they didn’t even put over Roman. He only eliminated Show and Kane because they were bickering and Rusev was already beaten to a pulp by the time he eliminated him to win. Instead of even trying that, they brought in The Rock to try and get people to cheer and, like...no?
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Post by sungod2020 on Dec 31, 2020 8:45:20 GMT -5
2015 was one of those situations where, on paper, a lot of it makes sense. Heels beat on heroes, get heat, someone eliminates them. The main issue was that, this wasn't in a vacuum, and like Street Fighter X Tekken having bad box art Mega Man in what wasn't intended as a slight, but came as Capcom had cancelled like 3 Mega Man games and was dragging its heels doing anything with the character, 2015's Rumble was probably the height of Roman ill-will. Did WWE intended 2015 to shit on fan favorites? No. I don't actually think they did. I don't think it was supposed to be "you like these geeks?" I think they thought, "Fans love these guys, so surely, Roman will get the boost for taking out the hated heels!", since this was well into WWE's trouble at connecting to fans who they have become quite sheltered from. They were absolutely tone-deaf. I am absolutely not saying WWE wasn't being cynical. They were, trying to use the popularity of the slain faces to boost Roman, but they botched it so badly that it made it seem more like they were trying to bury the other guys. WWE's go-to strategies for heat need retiring, or at least, retooling, and this was one of the clearest examples. I'm sorry I have to disagree with you on that wholeheartedly. WWE knew full well what they were doing. In the weeks leading up to the Rumble, Roman Reigns was getting mixed reactions from the crowd(which is putting it nicely), while Daniel Bryan(who they were hesitant to push in the first place) returned from a 6 month injury and was welcomed back with open arms. By having Bryan be eliminated in 10 minutes, and all those other guys(Ziggler and Ambrose) who the fans would accept as a substitute be buried by the Big Show and Kane, it clearly sent a message to fans that Roman was their guy and they should deal with it. Again, they were pushing Reigns as a superhero at the expense of crowd favorites. They even made a pathetic attempt to have The Rock come out and endorse him. This has nothing to do with being a smark analyzing and nitpicking the product, a casual fan who never read a dirtsheet could clearly notice what they were trying to do and it even reflected in the crowd reactions that night.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Dec 31, 2020 9:57:26 GMT -5
Honestly ignoring the fact hogan was telegraphed to win, I adore the flow and feel of the 1991 rumble.
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 31, 2020 10:39:18 GMT -5
How could it not be close? Vince & Austin spend about two minutes in the ring before they leave & a parade of geeks does nothing for an hour? It's easily bottom 4 imo. Because the storyline of it is what was good. Who thought Vince was going to win the Rumble that year? Hell, the 1997 didn't even have 30 WWF guys who could participate. They had to borrow and use some guys from AAA. The sad thing is WWF did have 30 guys they could have used but most of those were very low on the card so replacing them with AAA since WWF was in Texas and trying to cross promote was not necessarily a bad thing. I would have preferred regular roster guys getting the pay day but they would be Doug Furnas and Phil Lafon, Bradshaw, Barry Windham as Stalker, Bob Holly, Aldo Montoya and Lief Cassidy. Terry Gordy as Executioner, Billy Gunn and Bradshaw were original slated for the match as per WWF magazine. But any number of those guys would probably have fans sitting on their hands.
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WR91
Bubba Ho-Tep
FAN 14685
Posts: 535
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Post by WR91 on Dec 31, 2020 11:38:38 GMT -5
I know it's a bit off topic but the 1999 Royal Rumble is not only my favorite Rumble but one of my top five favorite PPV's of all time. Yeah, I said it. That I-Quit match was epic. That I Quit match is actually my second favorite match of all-time. Mostly due to nostalgia but still.
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