Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,478
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 13, 2021 5:31:54 GMT -5
The chase, the moment and his reign were all really good, IMO.
Had he lost it in like, *any* other manner, I'd be a lot more forgiving of how it ended
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,499
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Post by Bo Rida on Jan 13, 2021 12:49:01 GMT -5
I don't know why they didn't try to establish that this was his one run on top. The veteran says he's going to do everything possible to retain the title but knows he's not the one to carry the company long-term so once he loses the belt he's stepping aside for others (motions to Big E).
Then go down fighting to Brock after giving everything he's got.
Same basic structure but it's an actual story that justifies him returning to normal as if it was all a crazy dream. Getting squashed and not caring just made him look weak and retrospectively undermined what had been a strong run.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 14:22:01 GMT -5
Mankind held the title for a week or two, Bryan got injured and had to vacate and Eddie’s reign lead to record low ratings/attendances at the time and he couldn’t take the pressure. A great title win is a great title win even if the overall reign is disappointing. Getting squashed by Brock 6 months later doesn’t take away how special his Wrestlemania moment was for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2021 14:46:40 GMT -5
How it ended doesn't take away from the moment of him winning it IMO, but I wish he could've gotten some offense in on Brock. It was really shitty how they booked that match. That's how you book a cowardly heel finally getting his comeuppance, not the guy who had the best babyface moment in years.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Jan 13, 2021 17:51:11 GMT -5
The most bizarre thing to me is not that they feed him to Lesnar cause knowing Vince that is his m.o. its that Fox were not pissed off that one of the main guys featured on the ads leading to the debut of Smackdown on Fox were jobbed out like a loser to a guy going to RAW on another cable channel.
Like I wasted valuable NFL ad space to build up a guy to lose to someone going to RAW.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,889
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 13, 2021 21:19:43 GMT -5
I think what makes it crazy for me is that it makes the whole thing feel...hollow in restrospective. Like, don’t get me wrong, it was a great build (albeit acting like the Bryan approach was what made WM 30 as great as it was when it was blatantly them trying to avoid going through with it all but anyway...) and the payoff is one that’ll stick with me forever but it...it almost feels pointless? As people mentioned, it felt like it was more of them amusing the fans and taking it away then actually giving the people what they want and running with it. And then when it came out in interviews, kayfabe or otherwise, that he wasn’t that bothered about getting his rematch or going back for the title, it just added this whole aspect of “Oh, well, ok, if you don’t care about it, clearly I shouldn’t care about you when literally billions of wrestlers would have at least tried to go back” and...I don’t know, it comes off like I wasted my time sometimes. It was hollow. He got inserted into Ali’s storyline like he was always there. Kofi is a great talent but this win just reeked of him just being in the right place at the right time and wasn’t a story of him rising to in his inevitable station like Bret or Shawn.
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Post by eJm on Jan 13, 2021 21:21:58 GMT -5
I think what makes it crazy for me is that it makes the whole thing feel...hollow in restrospective. Like, don’t get me wrong, it was a great build (albeit acting like the Bryan approach was what made WM 30 as great as it was when it was blatantly them trying to avoid going through with it all but anyway...) and the payoff is one that’ll stick with me forever but it...it almost feels pointless? As people mentioned, it felt like it was more of them amusing the fans and taking it away then actually giving the people what they want and running with it. And then when it came out in interviews, kayfabe or otherwise, that he wasn’t that bothered about getting his rematch or going back for the title, it just added this whole aspect of “Oh, well, ok, if you don’t care about it, clearly I shouldn’t care about you when literally billions of wrestlers would have at least tried to go back” and...I don’t know, it comes off like I wasted my time sometimes. It was hollow. He got inserted into Ali’s storyline like he was always there. Kofi is a great talent but this win just reeked of him just being in the right place at the right time and wasn’t a story of him rising to in his inevitable station like Bret or Shawn. I do disagree and they made the best of a situation. Could they have done more about that aspect? Absolutely, no doubt, but it made for one of the best moments of the modern era. But...like, the moment doesn't make up for the fact not only did he lose as quickly as he did, but shoved down as far as humanly possible as though it never happened.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 41,889
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 13, 2021 21:29:33 GMT -5
It was hollow. He got inserted into Ali’s storyline like he was always there. Kofi is a great talent but this win just reeked of him just being in the right place at the right time and wasn’t a story of him rising to in his inevitable station like Bret or Shawn. I do disagree and they made the best of a situation. Could they have done more about that aspect? Absolutely, no doubt, but it made for one of the best moments of the modern era. But...like, the moment doesn't make up for the fact not only did he lose as quickly as he did, but shoved down as far as humanly possible as though it never happened. I think Kofi kind of highlighted a problem they have, how do you book him against Lesnar that I should believe Kofi may win? His skills were never presented in a way to make believe it was possible. Other guys don’t have that issue. I like Kofi and maybe he even deserves to be main event and the champion but I never believed him in that role.
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Post by Fade is a CodyCryBaby on Jan 14, 2021 1:31:52 GMT -5
Some guys win titles and some guys are main eventers. Kofi won the title but the WWE had no interest in making him a main eventer. This. Which is just bizarre because..you would have another main eventer. Could have him float as an uppercarder even and use him sparingly but nope. It was a moment. A great one at that. But it was handing the fans a treat and then backing off completely. Kinda like Benoit tbh.
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clifford
King Koopa
Shingo Takagi stan
Posts: 10,677
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Post by clifford on Jan 14, 2021 4:43:19 GMT -5
They did such a good job booking the chase and title win; and then did a very decent job of making him look strong as champion, that even him losing the title to Brock in 9 seconds or whatever it was shouldn't have wiped it all out.
What they did afterwards however, basically just pretend that none of it ever happened, undid everything.
Here you had a genuine new player for the main event scene and you just...sent him back to the midcard.
We've had midcard world champions in the past that never felt like main eventers during their title reigns- Punk's first couple of World Heavyweight Title reigns, Miz's WWE title reign, Ziggler as World Champ spring to mind. In these reigns the champ was NEVER booked strong, so when they lost the title and fell back down the card it was sad and frustrating, but it made sense; WWE didn't put the work into them so got nothing out of it in return.
But with Kofi; the company devoted pretty much a full year to both building him up to be World Champ, AND then booking him strongly as champion, to the point that just throwing him back to the midcard after he lost the title just looks incredibly wasteful and stupid.
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Post by King Devitt: Scrum Guzzler on Jan 14, 2021 8:12:27 GMT -5
Nothing changed when he won and nothing changed when he lost. They didn’t really give him a new identity. No new theme. Just same pancake throwing guy. He loses it in bullshit fashion, and a week later is out smiling being the same "pancake throwing guy". I know he/they defend it, but it took the shine off of him for me.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Jan 14, 2021 15:09:30 GMT -5
I think the actual build they fell into and the moment were great. The Usos choosing to quit to get Kofi his title match after all the battles they had? What a great bit of TV. Kofi beating Bryan and his kids being there to celebrate? Awesome.
Where they fell flat is what typically happens in WWE with the "Underdog wins the belt" storyline which is the follow-up. They really didn't have challengers heated up for him, so we got lukewarm Owens and Ziggler matches. I enjoyed the Orton stuff, but I almost wish they went with that out of the gate while they got Ziggler and Owens on winning streaks to get him ready.
Of course, losing to Lesnar in nine seconds isn't ideal, but you could chalk that up to a flash win. The fact that he never got a rematch, hasn't come close to sniffing the title and doesn't even seem all that different character-wise is criminal.
It feels like Kofi's a company guy, so we may never hear his true thoughts on the Lesnar portion until after he's retired, but I doubt he was OK with not getting any follow up.
The New Day is beyond stale now and I'm hopeful that Kofi being injured gives them a chance to kind of freshen things up. I think it's time for them to call it quits. Turn Xavier heel and let Kofi continue to serve in that face gatekeeper role. I think his time for main events has come and gone.
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Post by katieklaus on Jan 14, 2021 20:29:10 GMT -5
Kofi didn't care about being champion. Therefore I don't care about him being the champion in retrospect or again. For as much stick as the WWE get I don't blame them for not going all in on a guy at the top who isn't all in on himself at the top.
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Sparkybob
King Koopa
I have a status?
Posts: 10,990
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Post by Sparkybob on Jan 16, 2021 22:31:06 GMT -5
Mankind held the title for a week or two, Bryan got injured and had to vacate and Eddie’s reign lead to record low ratings/attendances at the time and he couldn’t take the pressure. A great title win is a great title win even if the overall reign is disappointing. Getting squashed by Brock 6 months later doesn’t take away how special his Wrestlemania moment was for me. Yea Eddie losing the title in the semi main event to Bradshaw on an awful PPV hasn't diminished people's view of his title win so I don't really get the argument that his WM moment was ruined.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Jan 18, 2021 15:36:48 GMT -5
Mankind held the title for a week or two, Bryan got injured and had to vacate and Eddie’s reign lead to record low ratings/attendances at the time and he couldn’t take the pressure. A great title win is a great title win even if the overall reign is disappointing. Getting squashed by Brock 6 months later doesn’t take away how special his Wrestlemania moment was for me. Yea Eddie losing the title in the semi main event to Bradshaw on an awful PPV hasn't diminished people's view of his title win so I don't really get the argument that his WM moment was ruined. Two things. One, Eddie's dead, so everything he did is inherently looked upon more favourably. Two, Eddie's was fifteen plus years ago, so people can be nostalgic for it - give it ten years from now, and some other babyface will have had a white hot title win and a shitty reign and we'll all be burying it, while talking about how with hindsight that Kofi win is an all-timer and the reign was good too.
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Post by thechase on Jan 18, 2021 15:45:23 GMT -5
Kofi didn't care about being champion Source?
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Post by Topher is Human on Jan 18, 2021 17:12:16 GMT -5
Kofi didn't care about being champion Source? I mean that’s just false. From all accounts, when he was given the initial push in the gauntlet KofiMania wasn’t the plan and his bit to AJ about how he’s waited 11 years and how it’s his time was adlibbed.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 18, 2021 17:21:32 GMT -5
Kofi didn't care about being champion. Therefore I don't care about him being the champion in retrospect or again. For as much stick as the WWE get I don't blame them for not going all in on a guy at the top who isn't all in on himself at the top. Kofi being written not to care isn't the same Kofi not caring. What are you supposed to do when they say "You're not getting any second chance, there's no follow-up, just go back to comedy stuff, say something about keeping positive"?
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Post by Instant Classic on Jan 18, 2021 17:48:25 GMT -5
To me it’s because I’m not a kid anymore and it’s not in a nostalgic period. He had a hell of a run and one of the best title wins ever.
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Post by Starshine on Jan 18, 2021 17:53:39 GMT -5
Kofi didn't care about being champion. Therefore I don't care about him being the champion in retrospect or again. For as much stick as the WWE get I don't blame them for not going all in on a guy at the top who isn't all in on himself at the top. Kofi being written not to care isn't the same Kofi not caring. What are you supposed to do when they say "You're not getting any second chance, there's no follow-up, just go back to comedy stuff, say something about keeping positive"? Well you definitely try to say something better than: “A lot of people will be on my social media and be like, ‘Kofi, you’re out there and you’re acting like you don’t care, man! You forget that you were the champion’ and this and that. And I’m like, well look, you’re asking my on-screen character to be angry as if it was my real character... And the reality, I’m a good guy who lost in 8 seconds, so as far as making a case for a rematch. uhhhhh, like, what would my character have to say... You’re wanting my real-life character to take on this anger and be mad with what happened on-screen. So it’s just this weird conundrum.”Yes, nothing fires up fans more than contrasting your 'real character' vs. your fake one. It just comes off like the guy is actively avoiding answering the question. Or just repeat what Xavier Woods says in the same interview: “I think it’s important for people to realize that each match is not a war. Each match, each show, each segment that a talent is given is a battle,” Woods stated. “Clearly New Day is still here, currently we’re tag team champions, so we haven’t lost the war. The war is not over. For us, I don’t know if the war ever will be over. But it’s something that we are constantly fighting as much as possible and that was a battle for Kofi. It was a battle for all of us. But it’s not the end of the war. So understand that New Day will always constantly fight in the fight that we have to and we will do our best to win every one that we can, but guarantee we are gunning for the war … not the one fight.”It's notable to see that Woods seems to understand this more than Kingston does.
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