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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2021 17:58:12 GMT -5
Yea Eddie losing the title in the semi main event to Bradshaw on an awful PPV hasn't diminished people's view of his title win so I don't really get the argument that his WM moment was ruined. Two things. One, Eddie's dead, so everything he did is inherently looked upon more favourably. Two, Eddie's was fifteen plus years ago, so people can be nostalgic for it - give it ten years from now, and some other babyface will have had a white hot title win and a shitty reign and we'll all be burying it, while talking about how with hindsight that Kofi win is an all-timer and the reign was good too. Also, ignoring all that, Eddie Guerrero lost the title in a Bullrope match that's extremely highly regarded for its story and pure violence so I don't know what the f*** you mean besides the fact the rest of the PPV sucked.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2021 17:59:52 GMT -5
Kofi being written not to care isn't the same Kofi not caring. What are you supposed to do when they say "You're not getting any second chance, there's no follow-up, just go back to comedy stuff, say something about keeping positive"? Well you definitely try to say something better than: “A lot of people will be on my social media and be like, ‘Kofi, you’re out there and you’re acting like you don’t care, man! You forget that you were the champion’ and this and that. And I’m like, well look, you’re asking my on-screen character to be angry as if it was my real character... And the reality, I’m a good guy who lost in 8 seconds, so as far as making a case for a rematch. uhhhhh, like, what would my character have to say... You’re wanting my real-life character to take on this anger and be mad with what happened on-screen. So it’s just this weird conundrum.”Yes, nothing fires up fans more than contrasting your 'real character' vs. your fake one. It just comes off like the guy is actively avoiding answering the question. I mean, that I can agree with. Like, I get the sentiment in terms of working for the company and such but at the same time...you read that after investing time into wondering if they were actually going to do it and then have it end like that with no real follow up except "you're back to the tag teams, kid"? Really deflates you in terms of fandom for a guy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 18:08:39 GMT -5
Seriously, wasn't the finish just him running into the F5 like a complete f***ing goober?
At least have him backflip out of a German and hit a couple Trouble in Paradises. Jeez.
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Post by Starshine on Jan 18, 2021 18:08:53 GMT -5
Well you definitely try to say something better than: “A lot of people will be on my social media and be like, ‘Kofi, you’re out there and you’re acting like you don’t care, man! You forget that you were the champion’ and this and that. And I’m like, well look, you’re asking my on-screen character to be angry as if it was my real character... And the reality, I’m a good guy who lost in 8 seconds, so as far as making a case for a rematch. uhhhhh, like, what would my character have to say... You’re wanting my real-life character to take on this anger and be mad with what happened on-screen. So it’s just this weird conundrum.”Yes, nothing fires up fans more than contrasting your 'real character' vs. your fake one. It just comes off like the guy is actively avoiding answering the question. I mean, that I can agree with. Like, I get the sentiment in terms of working for the company and such but at the same time...you read that after investing time into wondering if they were actually going to do it and then have it end like that with no real follow up except "you're back to the tag teams, kid"? Really deflates you in terms of fandom for a guy. The problem is when he starts differentiating real vs. on-screen in this situation, does that mean we were only happy for his on-screen character winning the belt? Does the actual man playing Kofi Kingston exist in a bubble were not to be privy too? Who could ever get excited thinking like that? Steve Austin and The Rock never talked about their on-screen character, because they understood the strongest characters are -presented as an extension of the man playing it. I feel like this interview kind of exposes why they never committed to him ever moving up the card before, because it comes off as such a defeatist and detached attitude to the situation, that even Xavier Woods reads the room and has to immediately play damage control for. Like, even if they never go back to him, it's always better to say you're still looking upwards than not. That's at least someone you believe has some fire in them, even if you don't expect they'll ever reach those heights again.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2021 18:14:10 GMT -5
Like, even if they never go back to him, it's always better to say you're still looking upwards than not. That's at least someone you believe has some fire in them, even if you don't expect they'll ever reach those heights again. Yeah, like ideally, you'd want people to feel like that time isn't a one off and you could put in that work to get back in that scene again because it was that whole story and your history that got people invested enough for you to do that. Especially considering he was a last minute replacement that happened to catch fire. Reading all that was like...Ok, I'm glad you're satisfied but in the wide history of the company, even someone like Zack Ryder after losing the IC title one night after winning it never went "Ahh well, I had my moment, time to move on" even if the on air booking said otherwise. It's also sort of hard to blame Kofi fully because, like Miro and others have talked about, this company has a way of making your achievements feel like total flukes even if they're not and move the goalposts of what is a success so you never know what might have actually said by someone in management in the way they do.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 18, 2021 19:09:53 GMT -5
Kofi being written not to care isn't the same Kofi not caring. What are you supposed to do when they say "You're not getting any second chance, there's no follow-up, just go back to comedy stuff, say something about keeping positive"? Well you definitely try to say something better than: “A lot of people will be on my social media and be like, ‘Kofi, you’re out there and you’re acting like you don’t care, man! You forget that you were the champion’ and this and that. And I’m like, well look, you’re asking my on-screen character to be angry as if it was my real character... And the reality, I’m a good guy who lost in 8 seconds, so as far as making a case for a rematch. uhhhhh, like, what would my character have to say... You’re wanting my real-life character to take on this anger and be mad with what happened on-screen. So it’s just this weird conundrum.”Yes, nothing fires up fans more than contrasting your 'real character' vs. your fake one. It just comes off like the guy is actively avoiding answering the question. Or just repeat what Xavier Woods says in the same interview: “I think it’s important for people to realize that each match is not a war. Each match, each show, each segment that a talent is given is a battle,” Woods stated. “Clearly New Day is still here, currently we’re tag team champions, so we haven’t lost the war. The war is not over. For us, I don’t know if the war ever will be over. But it’s something that we are constantly fighting as much as possible and that was a battle for Kofi. It was a battle for all of us. But it’s not the end of the war. So understand that New Day will always constantly fight in the fight that we have to and we will do our best to win every one that we can, but guarantee we are gunning for the war … not the one fight.”It's notable to see that Woods seems to understand this more than Kingston does. It does seem like he's avoiding answering the question, which is something a lot of people do in WWE with decisions they've been unhappy with because there's simply no winning, and complaining only gets you punished. I have never received the impression he just "doesn't care" about being champion.
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Post by eJm on Jan 18, 2021 19:33:26 GMT -5
Well you definitely try to say something better than: “A lot of people will be on my social media and be like, ‘Kofi, you’re out there and you’re acting like you don’t care, man! You forget that you were the champion’ and this and that. And I’m like, well look, you’re asking my on-screen character to be angry as if it was my real character... And the reality, I’m a good guy who lost in 8 seconds, so as far as making a case for a rematch. uhhhhh, like, what would my character have to say... You’re wanting my real-life character to take on this anger and be mad with what happened on-screen. So it’s just this weird conundrum.”Yes, nothing fires up fans more than contrasting your 'real character' vs. your fake one. It just comes off like the guy is actively avoiding answering the question. Or just repeat what Xavier Woods says in the same interview: “I think it’s important for people to realize that each match is not a war. Each match, each show, each segment that a talent is given is a battle,” Woods stated. “Clearly New Day is still here, currently we’re tag team champions, so we haven’t lost the war. The war is not over. For us, I don’t know if the war ever will be over. But it’s something that we are constantly fighting as much as possible and that was a battle for Kofi. It was a battle for all of us. But it’s not the end of the war. So understand that New Day will always constantly fight in the fight that we have to and we will do our best to win every one that we can, but guarantee we are gunning for the war … not the one fight.”It's notable to see that Woods seems to understand this more than Kingston does. It does seem like he's avoiding answering the question, which is something a lot of people do in WWE with decisions they've been unhappy with because there's simply no winning, and complaining only gets you punished. I have never received the impression he just "doesn't care" about being champion. I will say, there is likely a better way to word that without acting like people who get invested in the people in the business are overthinking things when it’s clear why people felt the way they did but like you said, that isn’t even an easy thing to do when you’re constantly walking on eggshells and on the whims of a management that’s already decided what level it wants you at regardless of how over you are and how much merchandise you sell.
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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jan 18, 2021 19:37:15 GMT -5
Two things. One, Eddie's dead, so everything he did is inherently looked upon more favourably. Two, Eddie's was fifteen plus years ago, so people can be nostalgic for it - give it ten years from now, and some other babyface will have had a white hot title win and a shitty reign and we'll all be burying it, while talking about how with hindsight that Kofi win is an all-timer and the reign was good too. Also, ignoring all that, Eddie Guerrero lost the title in a Bullrope match that's extremely highly regarded for its story and pure violence so I don't know what the f*** you mean besides the fact the rest of the PPV sucked. Also, Eddie didn’t lose the title to JBL in 8 seconds to set up a Randy Couture vs JBL match for a North Korean PPV that last about 2 minutes and is never mentioned again.
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Post by Starshine on Jan 18, 2021 19:43:46 GMT -5
It does seem like he's avoiding answering the question, which is something a lot of people do in WWE with decisions they've been unhappy with because there's simply no winning, and complaining only gets you punished. I have never received the impression he just "doesn't care" about being champion. I will say, there is likely a better way to word that without acting like people who get invested in the people in the business are overthinking things when it’s clear why people felt the way they did but like you said, that isn’t even an easy thing to do when you’re constantly walking on eggshells and on the whims of a management that’s already decided what level it wants you at regardless of how over you are and how much merchandise you sell. Though the irony of all this is that those everchanging whims are what led to Kofi winning the belt in the first place.
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Post by katieklaus on Jan 19, 2021 22:14:00 GMT -5
Kofi didn't care about being champion Source? Personal opinion based mostly on things mentioned by Starshine further down in this thread.
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WR91
Bubba Ho-Tep
FAN 14685
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Post by WR91 on Jan 20, 2021 10:16:38 GMT -5
I was never on board with the whole "Kofi Mania" deal. At the time I would have much rather had Mustafa Ali win it as I thought he was being built up nicely until he got hurt and was replaced by Kofi.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 21, 2021 16:33:00 GMT -5
Well, the booking proved the racist right, so that's always fun.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Jan 21, 2021 18:49:23 GMT -5
If he doesn't care about losing the title and getting booted back into the midcard, why should we?
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