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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 14, 2021 14:01:44 GMT -5
WWE firing all those people because of COVID. Maybe it wasn't the root cause of the mass exodus of loyal viewers, but it's certainly why I left, and I feel like I was a pretty loyal viewer. And it turns out they didn't even need to do so as they posted record profits. Its like how Disney fired and laid off so many so the top brass makes sure they get their yearly bonuses.
ANd in fact they brought several people back. ...and Pat Buck.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 14, 2021 14:02:19 GMT -5
Hotshotting the Invasion angle in 2001, a year before they could sign any major names. Hell, WWF '01 is ripe with bad business moves. Wouldn't make a difference. Look how they treated said major names.
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Post by jason1980s on Jan 14, 2021 14:10:09 GMT -5
The Katie Vick angle was all Vince. I thought that was well known. Every story that's come out over the years says that Triple H, Stephanie, Prichard and Hayes kept telling him it was a horrible idea but he wouldn't budge. I'm sure it was from Vince's brain but could his own daughter and son-in-law not go along with it? Like, didn't they have enough power to stop him or at least try to tone down the angle? Neither adult Stephanie nor Paul Levesque had enough power to stop it? I find it very suspect they told him to stop yet couldn't stop him especially considering Triple H was the one in the funeral home. Like I said, the man has enough power, probably more power than 99% of all employees combined and he still goes along with the idea.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 14:25:00 GMT -5
The Katie Vick angle was all Vince. I thought that was well known. Every story that's come out over the years says that Triple H, Stephanie, Prichard and Hayes kept telling him it was a horrible idea but he wouldn't budge. I'm sure it was from Vince's brain but could his own daughter and son-in-law not go along with it? Like, didn't they have enough power to stop him or at least try to tone down the angle? Neither adult Stephanie nor Paul Levesque had enough power to stop it? I find it very suspect they told him to stop yet couldn't stop him especially considering Triple H was the one in the funeral home. Like I said, the man has enough power, probably more power than 99% of all employees combined and he still goes along with the idea. The sad part is, what we got WAS the toned down version. Everyone apart from Vince was laughing at how ridiculous and horrible the funeral home angle was and tried to get him to scrap it. He insisted it go on and they eventually managed to get him to at least try to make it a "so bad it's funny" thing when Vince's original intention was for it to be a serious, dramatic moment.
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Wieners=$$$
Hank Scorpio
Gif Master Extraordinaire
Smokin' Bones
Posts: 5,988
Member is Online
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Post by Wieners=$$$ on Jan 14, 2021 15:31:00 GMT -5
Hotshotting the Invasion angle in 2001, a year before they could sign any major names. Hell, WWF '01 is ripe with bad business moves. Wouldn't make a difference. Look how they treated said major names. I don't know if I completely agree. Sure it became very apparent WCW/ECW would've never been made to look superior to the WWF, but if they had waited to re-debut WCW as it's own separate entity with names like Hogan, Hall, Nash and Flair, it might've had a better chance than tossing Booker T v. Buff Bagwell on Raw for the WWF fans to groan at. If Hogan's influence and impact on '02 is any indication of his ability to still draw, then the Vince owned WCW project may have worked had they taken the time to develop a proper reboot. I believe this was a case of striking while the iron was hot, but without gloves on for protection or support.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 14, 2021 16:32:03 GMT -5
Wouldn't make a difference. Look how they treated said major names. I don't know if I completely agree. Sure it became very apparent WCW/ECW would've never been made to look superior to the WWF, but if they had waited to re-debut WCW as it's own separate entity with names like Hogan, Hall, Nash and Flair, it might've had a better chance than tossing Booker T v. Buff Bagwell on Raw for the WWF fans to groan at. If Hogan's influence and impact on '02 is any indication of his ability to still draw, then the Vince owned WCW project may have worked had they taken the time to develop a proper reboot. I believe this was a case of striking while the iron was hot, but without gloves on for protection or support. Maybe, if so, they'd still brand split but with WWE and WCW. Oh they'd treat themselves as king, like Raw traditionally was against SD! And now, both brands against NXT.
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Mochi Lone Wolf
Fry's dog Seymour
Development through Destruction.
Posts: 23,998
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on Jan 14, 2021 16:44:31 GMT -5
The November 19th, 2001 Raw. The show that tossed away 8 months of storyline. Heel and face alignments were shifted in a completely half assed and nonsensical way. The fans were all told that everything they invested in for the better part of a year didn't matter. The company has never recovered from it Based on quality? It's a pretty decent show. For long-term business purposes? It's the worst Raw ever put together.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 16:51:15 GMT -5
The November 19th, 2001 Raw. The show that tossed away 8 months of storyline. Heel and face alignments were shifted in a completely half assed and nonsensical way. The fans were all told that everything they invested in for the better part of a year didn't matter. The company has never recovered from it Based on quality? It's a pretty decent show. For long-term business purposes? It's the worst Raw ever put together. I'll kind of try to defend this episode a little with some admittedly anecdotal evidence. Me and my friends LOVED this episode at the time. Austin back to being a badass? King back in place of that annoying Paul Heyman? Ric Flair showing up? RVD officially becoming a babyface after months of people cheering him anyway? I hate to admit it now but we even found the kiss my ass segment hilarious at the time.
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Post by madness50 on Jan 15, 2021 15:54:23 GMT -5
Moving Starrcade out of Greensboro and Atlanta in 1987. Really Crockett and later WCW abandoning Greensboro altogether. That was mistake number one with Starrcade and then WWF put Survivor Series on Thanksgiving night and held up the PPV companies. That one couldn’t be helped by Crockett, but moving Starrcade to Chicago was a big mistake.
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lionheart21
Patti Mayonnaise
Once did a thing...
Posts: 30,377
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Post by lionheart21 on Jan 15, 2021 17:30:58 GMT -5
Surprised it hasn’t been mentioned yet, but to me, the worst would have to be WCW saying on-air that Mankind would win the WWF Title that night, and decided that the best way to compete with such a historical moment in WWE history was to do the Fingerpoke of Doom that night, which essentially began the death of WCW
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 16, 2021 11:02:44 GMT -5
Resigning Hogan in 98 and giving him and Nash full creative control The creative control part yes, resigning them in general, especially Hogan, wasn't good but it was justifiable. Personal opinions about the talent aside one only has to look at the fact that Vince put the belt on Hogan four years later & was still featuring him in ppv main events as late as 2005 to see that had WCW released him WWF was bringing him back the second his non-compete was up. Heel Hogan as Vince's avatar vs Austin. $$$$$$$$$. And yeah Hogan had done everything in WCW & yes they desperately needed to create new stars. But letting them go would be admitting that WCW was going to be rebuilding & in that hyper competitive environment that just wasn't going to happen.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 16, 2021 11:10:45 GMT -5
'Okay Austin's gone, Rock's gone. Foley's retired, we buried Booker and DDP, Sting wants no part of our booking so let's build the company around Triple H and feed him all comers, booking him as an unstoppable face, only heel, and stick with it, even as business tanks because shows featuring 15 minute promos about how good a heel is and then getting no comuppanceare ratings poison.'
'Dixie, Brother, if you want to sign me, you should sign my buddy Eric, he has great ideas.'
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,661
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Jan 16, 2021 13:40:17 GMT -5
WCW paying Master P $200,000 for what amounted to a one-off appearance.
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Jan 16, 2021 14:02:53 GMT -5
The first ECW weekly show on TNN. On their first show, Heyman decided he wasn’t going to give them what they wanted, they were going to get what he wanted. He wasn’t willing to compromise. A year or so later, the show is cancelled, less than six months after that, ECW was dead.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 16, 2021 14:16:59 GMT -5
Wouldn't make a difference. Look how they treated said major names. I don't know if I completely agree. Sure it became very apparent WCW/ECW would've never been made to look superior to the WWF, but if they had waited to re-debut WCW as it's own separate entity with names like Hogan, Hall, Nash and Flair, it might've had a better chance than tossing Booker T v. Buff Bagwell on Raw for the WWF fans to groan at. If Hogan's influence and impact on '02 is any indication of his ability to still draw, then the Vince owned WCW project may have worked had they taken the time to develop a proper reboot. I believe this was a case of striking while the iron was hot, but without gloves on for protection or support. They were planning on doing that. UPN and USA didn't want WCW because they were paying for the WWE and didn't want to host the "loser" brand of the Monday Night Wars.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 16, 2021 14:19:14 GMT -5
The first ECW weekly show on TNN. On their first show, Heyman decided he wasn’t going to give them what they wanted, they were going to get what he wanted. He wasn’t willing to compromise. A year or so later, the show is cancelled, less than six months after that, ECW was dead. Yeah, Heyman tried and somewhat successfully tried to blame TNN for being mean to him or not caring about ECW... but the truth is Heyman went out of his way to screw the relationship up. They were going to give him all sorts of money and equipment to work with but he wanted it HIS way or no way... so TNN responded with ok... and cut them as soon as they could. Based on quality? It's a pretty decent show. For long-term business purposes? It's the worst Raw ever put together. I'll kind of try to defend this episode a little with some admittedly anecdotal evidence. Me and my friends LOVED this episode at the time. Austin back to being a badass? King back in place of that annoying Paul Heyman? with Austin suddenly being a face again was because people still DID NOT WANT TO BOO HIM. I mean could they explain why he's suddenly a face other than just having him be one? Of course... but... the audience didn't care because they didn't want to boo him. I've been meaning to go back and watch Heyman's time on commentary because at the time I also found his voice really annoying, maybe my position has changed since then... but I generally did not like him commentating.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,831
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 16, 2021 15:07:37 GMT -5
Arguably, the brand split. Every time it’s been done, back to the experimental NWO shoes. In effect, a company deliberately going into competition with itself. Brilliant.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 16, 2021 15:44:49 GMT -5
If my memory serves me correctly, Lucha Underground lost a decent amount of viewers when Sexy Star won the title.
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petef3
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,783
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Post by petef3 on Jan 16, 2021 16:42:52 GMT -5
New Orleans was killed as a town before the oil crunch by the decision to job the Junkyard Dog to Mr. Wrestling II for the North American title. The finish of II loading up his kneepad didn't register with the live crowd, who saw JYD go down to a knee lift from an old man and thought he had "taken a dive." Mid-South/UWF never quite drew as well there again.
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Post by TOK Hehe'd Around & Found Out on Jan 16, 2021 17:38:50 GMT -5
ROH was primed for a new beginning in 2010. They had a massive pool of talent who could do it all, both in-ring and on the mic.
What does Cornette decide to emphasize moving forward in the main event? Three 5'9 white dudes who could all wrestle good but had the charisma of a wet rag.
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