Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,889
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Post by Sephiroth on Jan 20, 2021 13:22:12 GMT -5
Kip Frye quitting WCW. No telling what may have come if he had stated on, but in his brief tone he made moves that showed signs of a potentially great promoter; instituting a salary structure motivated talent and offered a potential spotlight to younger stars, snapping up Jake Robert’s and Jesse Ventura, abs planning a Sting mega push years before The Crow makeover. He might very well have taken WCW big time well before Bischoff.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 20, 2021 15:45:41 GMT -5
Yes, I've said it multiple times.
Bradshaw was never a jobber. JBL was a midcarder and part of a well respected tag team and was over as a badass to begin with.
Jinder was a career jobber.
That said X-pac heat / go away heat absolutely exists, but I do think the term gets massively overused and is usual used for people to talk about people they don't like.
Go Away heat you see when the audience doesn't want to see you lose and certainly aren't going to pay to do it... so they don't. Like when Baron Corbin was repeatedly the worst rated segment of the night.
It existed before the internet too... but it was harder to track becasue instead of people talking about it online they just didn't go back to the shows if they were on the card.
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ToyfareMark
Vegeta
A WINNER IS YOU!
In Hutch I trust!
Posts: 9,590
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Post by ToyfareMark on Jan 20, 2021 15:59:06 GMT -5
3 pages and nobody mentioned Verne Gagne refusing to give Hulk Hogan the AWA championship in 1983. He kept chasing and chasing, and the fans desperately wanted him to finally win it, but Verne stupidly decided that the money was only in the chase and not the catch. This gave WWF the edge to sign pro wrestling's hottest new star and help usher in their National expansion, while concurrently, leading to AWA's demise years later. Also, giving Jinder Mahal, a multi-year jobber, a 6 month WWE title run to bring in business in India. Needless to say it failed big time. And the reason Hogan was in AWA in the first place was Vince Sr. fired him because he felt his appearance in Rocky III exposed the business. That's what is said about Hogan leaving at the time, but there is a different reality to that situation. Back then heels in the WWWF didn't stick around for years at a time, they'd get their runs, then shuffle down the card before leaving, sometimes making returns years later. At the time Hogan left that is exactly what he is doing. The being fired thing makes for a much better story when he returns later.
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Post by Andee9001 on Jan 20, 2021 16:50:15 GMT -5
Pretty much any time a company has lucked into something organically and refused to follow up because it wasn't in the plans.
Zack Ryder in 2011 Luke Harper in 2017 Rusev in 2018
Those are just a few examples. Ryder and Rusev moved shirts. Kofi Kingston showed that plans can change and you can make money. Look at the Kofimania merch they shifted during mania. Even if they had no plans to push those guys as long term main eventers just keep them around and on tv because fans would keep buying their merch. Instead guys get taken off tv to cool them down
I'll also say hiring DDP and Booker T during the Invasion and burying both guys. Sure they may not have been WCWs most popular guys but they were the highest profile signings and both had had World title runs which could have brought some credibility to a main event scene that had lost The Rock, Triple H and Chris Benoit.
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Post by sungod2020 on Jan 20, 2021 17:50:54 GMT -5
Yes, I've said it multiple times. Bradshaw was never a jobber. JBL was a midcarder and part of a well respected tag team and was over as a badass to begin with. Jinder was a career jobber. That said X-pac heat / go away heat absolutely exists, but I do think the term gets massively overused and is usual used for people to talk about people they don't like.
Go Away heat you see when the audience doesn't want to see you lose and certainly aren't going to pay to do it... so they don't. Like when Baron Corbin was repeatedly the worst rated segment of the night.
It existed before the internet too... but it was harder to track becasue instead of people talking about it online they just didn't go back to the shows if they were on the card.But how exactly can you determine if said wrestler gets this kind of heat? Except maybe Corbin(who had the whole show centered around him during his GM days), there's never been evidence that certain wrestlers are getting booed for the "wrong" reasons. All the boos sound the same. Do wrestlers and promoters in the locker room discuss among themselves who's getting this mythical heat and should be depushed accordingly? I feel apathy and dead silence(also known in IWC circles as the Conway Pop) is worse than any of this "bad" heat that gets discussed around these parts.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
Posts: 12,714
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Post by Glitch on Jan 20, 2021 17:59:56 GMT -5
The way Harold Meij completely dropped the ball when he handled AEW coming into existence.
The Elite and Tony Khan were actually very willing to work with New Japan so that The Elite wouldn't stop working with the company, but would rather transition to a lighter schedule. So Meij decides to not only refuse to work with them, but puts The Elite and the staying Bullet Club members in angle that benefits no one. The Elite were the ones helping New Japan gain traction into America and a major source of income, so ole Harold decides to burn things down in order to save face somehow.
It shouldn't be called the Forbidden door, it should be called the Meij door!
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Post by Triangle Lancer on Jan 21, 2021 11:07:27 GMT -5
And the reason Hogan was in AWA in the first place was Vince Sr. fired him because he felt his appearance in Rocky III exposed the business. That's what is said about Hogan leaving at the time, but there is a different reality to that situation. Back then heels in the WWWF didn't stick around for years at a time, they'd get their runs, then shuffle down the card before leaving, sometimes making returns years later. At the time Hogan left that is exactly what he is doing. The being fired thing makes for a much better story when he returns later. He was there off and on from November 1979 to April 1981, which is quite a run as a heel up there. Save for matches with Andre (and the occasional title match against Bob in smaller towns), he wasn't really doing much those last couple of months on TV except handicap squash matches against 2 guys. Hogan was kinda stale at this point in the Northeast. They used him to put over Tony Atlas. Which is what you're supposed to do when on the way out; use what you've got to build the next guy.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 21, 2021 11:41:03 GMT -5
Pretty much any time a company has lucked into something organically and refused to follow up because it wasn't in the plans. Zack Ryder in 2011 Luke Harper in 2017 Rusev in 2018 Those are just a few examples. Ryder and Rusev moved shirts. Kofi Kingston showed that plans can change and you can make money. Look at the Kofimania merch they shifted during mania. Even if they had no plans to push those guys as long term main eventers just keep them around and on tv because fans would keep buying their merch. Instead guys get taken off tv to cool them down I'll also say hiring DDP and Booker T during the Invasion and burying both guys. Sure they may not have been WCWs most popular guys but they were the highest profile signings and both had had World title runs which could have brought some credibility to a main event scene that had lost The Rock, Triple H and Chris Benoit. Yes, a company. Funny how it's all the same one. Though...WCW was guilty of the same back in the day. Didn't fully capitalize on anyone who wasn't nWo or feuding/associated with them. Even some nWo members got this treatment, see: the going back/forth on what Scott Steiner was allowed to say in 1998-ish? They even pulled him off of TV sometimes.
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Post by Andee9001 on Jan 21, 2021 15:40:14 GMT -5
Pretty much any time a company has lucked into something organically and refused to follow up because it wasn't in the plans. Zack Ryder in 2011 Luke Harper in 2017 Rusev in 2018 Those are just a few examples. Ryder and Rusev moved shirts. Kofi Kingston showed that plans can change and you can make money. Look at the Kofimania merch they shifted during mania. Even if they had no plans to push those guys as long term main eventers just keep them around and on tv because fans would keep buying their merch. Instead guys get taken off tv to cool them down I'll also say hiring DDP and Booker T during the Invasion and burying both guys. Sure they may not have been WCWs most popular guys but they were the highest profile signings and both had had World title runs which could have brought some credibility to a main event scene that had lost The Rock, Triple H and Chris Benoit. Yes, a company. Funny how it's all the same one. Though...WCW was guilty of the same back in the day. Didn't fully capitalize on anyone who wasn't nWo or feuding/associated with them. Even some nWo members got this treatment, see: the going back/forth on what Scott Steiner was allowed to say in 1998-ish? They even pulled him off of TV sometimes. Those were just the main examples i could think off. I'll throw in TNA keeping their World title on Jarrett when Raven was red hot (twice) and not putting the title on Joe when he was hot in favour of Christian.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Jan 21, 2021 15:44:27 GMT -5
Yes, a company. Funny how it's all the same one. Though...WCW was guilty of the same back in the day. Didn't fully capitalize on anyone who wasn't nWo or feuding/associated with them. Even some nWo members got this treatment, see: the going back/forth on what Scott Steiner was allowed to say in 1998-ish? They even pulled him off of TV sometimes. Those were just the main examples i could think off. I'll throw in TNA keeping their World title on Jarrett when Raven was red hot (twice) and not putting the title on Joe when he was hot in favour of Christian. Don't forget turning Monty Brown heel when the crowd were basically begging for him to beat Jarrett.
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J. Hova
Don Corleone
Emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt
Posts: 1,983
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Post by J. Hova on Jan 23, 2021 2:09:30 GMT -5
I just keep thinking of the pipebomb promo for multiple reasons. There was that line that no longer applies thanks to the stock price about how Vince is a millionaire who should be a billionaire. There has been so much money left on the table over the years but I'm not going to pick on Vince.
Verne not putting the title on Hogan is huge. They were drawing huge houses with him and Bockwinkel, all of them paying to see Hogan dethrone Nick. I'm not even opposed to the Dusty finishes. Doing one of those at the beginning and building to that crescendo could have been astronomical money. It probably also didn't help that Verne was trying to take Hogan's money from merch and Japan.
Pretty much anything in WCCW post 1985.
JCP's spending and coke parade in 1987/88. As painful as it might have been, Dusty needed to be relieved of booker duties in 1986/87.
Mid South/UWF trying to go national.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 23, 2021 7:53:27 GMT -5
Vince letting Hogan do his early 90s media tour where he pretended he only flirted with using drugs and steroids in the 80s, when owning up and apologising would have gotten the whole thing to blow over on the media side of things. It was an absolute PR disaster, it hurt the WWF, it hurt Hogan and provided ammunition for Vince's issues later in the decade.
Trying carny BS when saying sorry would be better is kind of a pattern for hulk.
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