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Post by dex on Jan 18, 2021 23:46:10 GMT -5
My problem isn't so much with the match itself or the booking of the match although I wasn't exactly thrilled with it either, but rather the booking of Asuka's title reign before it.
It would be one thing if Asuka had , had a title reign filled with defenses and competitive matches, in which she had a constant substantial presence on Raw, and was booked as one would expect someone with her resume would . Then it would be fine for her to find herself at a disadvantage and potentially have her reign end. But that wasn't what happened.
Throughout Asuka's nearly 5 month long title reign she has only one ppv defense, which was against someone who isn't even in the company anymore. She hasn't had a title defense since November. She hasn't had any real feuds for her title during her reign, and even her tag team feuds really aren't about her but rather her partners (Lana, Charlotte).
She isn't booked strongly in the matches she has , she's always the face in peril in her tga matches with Charlotte as her partner, and she's booked to compete evenly with the likes of Zelina and Lana in her title matches with them. Seriously I'd think you'd have to go back to Summerslam and the Raw after it where Asuka had a definitive clean victory against someone who has received credible booking.
So no it's not this match that has convinced me that Pritchard and Vince dont' value Asuka as much as they should , it's what has come before it.
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mistery
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Post by mistery on Jan 18, 2021 23:50:33 GMT -5
Tonight was pretty much just the nail in the coffin for Asuka. I absolutely adore her. She's one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. But her booking has been a complete and utter travesty, and WWE committed first degree murder with her character and aura tonight. There is zero chance she bounces back from this, mainly because its WWE and telling satisfying stories is near impossible for them.
The last thing this company needs is a women's version of The Fiend running around, especially one who can barely wrestle.
The saddest part is that Becky was pretty vocal in interviews about how she saw Asuka as someone worthy to carry the division and should be the flagbearer. And a lot of her coworkers feel the same way. But Vince and Bruce don't, and we get this kind of garbage instead.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 23:54:16 GMT -5
She acts crazy & goofy, but she’s still booked like a terminator in the ring. I roll my eyes when she has to play face in peril for a Flair hot tag. I kinda look at it as two heels doubling up on her.
At least she isn’t like Shayna where she went from a female Brock Lesnar to losing to Dana Brooke.
WWE can’t make a decent woman’s division on either show when there’s only like eight woman.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 23:55:55 GMT -5
Tonight was pretty much just the nail in the coffin for Asuka. I absolutely adore her. She's one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. But her booking has been a complete and utter travesty, and WWE committed first degree murder with her character and aura tonight. There is zero chance she bounces back from this, mainly because its WWE and telling satisfying stories is near impossible for them. The last thing this company needs is a women's version of The Fiend running around, especially one who can barely wrestle. The saddest part is that Becky was pretty vocal in interviews about how she saw Asuka as someone worthy to carry the division and should be the flagbearer. And a lot of her coworkers feel the same way. But Vince and Bruce don't, and we get this kind of garbage instead. Asuka came back from losing to Flair at mania and kissing her butt afterwards to losing to Carmella with James Ellsworth cosplaying as her. She can survive this.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 18, 2021 23:56:03 GMT -5
Nail on the head.
I like Alexa's gimmick, I even get the story being told, but if Asuka was booked even half as good as McIntyre as a performer and a wrestler, this would have meant so much more to both women and the loss wouldnt have stung at all
This is a continued rhetoric WWE has where they feel they can just do this with Asuka and Asuka can afford losses and look like crap. Since her callup it's been all accolades and almost no substance, and on top of this weird crazy face gimmick that isn't really doing it, it just felt like Asuka got punked out, yet again, instead of it feeling more how it should have, a dominant champion getting beaten by a new threatening foe. And there is no faith that WWE will capitalize on it in a meaningful way either.
There's a reason people on this board and beyond aren't happy when Asuka loses and say they're burying her, even if it's hyperbole to a degree, Asuka for as much of a hall of fame career she has on paper, if you look at the meat of that sandwich, it's not that great.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 23:57:48 GMT -5
Tonight was pretty much just the nail in the coffin for Asuka. I absolutely adore her. She's one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. But her booking has been a complete and utter travesty, and WWE committed first degree murder with her character and aura tonight. There is zero chance she bounces back from this, mainly because its WWE and telling satisfying stories is near impossible for them. IMO Asuka's aura was already killed dead a few years ago when they had her lose twice to Carmella and made her look stupid during both matches. She's had some cool moments and great matches since then, but I think those booking decisions are still the worst.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 18, 2021 23:57:55 GMT -5
Tonight was pretty much just the nail in the coffin for Asuka. I absolutely adore her. She's one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. But her booking has been a complete and utter travesty, and WWE committed first degree murder with her character and aura tonight. There is zero chance she bounces back from this, mainly because its WWE and telling satisfying stories is near impossible for them. The last thing this company needs is a women's version of The Fiend running around, especially one who can barely wrestle. The saddest part is that Becky was pretty vocal in interviews about how she saw Asuka as someone worthy to carry the division and should be the flagbearer. And a lot of her coworkers feel the same way. But Vince and Bruce don't, and we get this kind of garbage instead. Asuka came back from losing to Flair at mania and kissing her butt afterwards to losing to Carmella with James Ellsworth cosplaying as her. She can survive this. Both of those incidents are strong reasons why these threads exist in the first place though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2021 23:58:29 GMT -5
There's something about Asuka where any time she's near a belt they book her into the ground. She's generally fine otherwise but if she's in the title scene, at best she's never actually showing up and at worst she's a useless dancing idiot.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 0:00:40 GMT -5
Might as well post this here as well.
I had to leave the live thread and finish the show later.
I’m actually fine with the main event.
I looked at it as the Fiend possessing Alexa. Now Asuka has to fight a “God” level character like the Fiend. She looked like a badass. Asuka didn’t hide or runaway she took it to Bliss.
In the end Bliss won, but at the same time it wasn’t normal level Bliss. That protects Asuka.This is more interesting than Asuka’s last few months playing Lanas or Flairs bff.
I’m interested in where this part of the story is going. I hope Alexa destroys Flair next week..
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 0:03:33 GMT -5
Asuka came back from losing to Flair at mania and kissing her butt afterwards to losing to Carmella with James Ellsworth cosplaying as her. She can survive this. Both of those incidents are strong reasons why these threads exist in the first place though. I guess what I was trying to say was those booking decisions were way worse. Hate to say the words “let’s wait and see” but I could see this going in a lot of different and interesting directions.
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Post by mistery on Jan 19, 2021 0:05:27 GMT -5
Might as well post this here as well. I had to leave the live thread and finish the show later. I’m actually fine with the main event. I looked at it as the Fiend possessing Alexa. Now Asuka has to fight a “God” level character like the Fiend. She looked like a badass. Asuka didn’t hide or runaway she took it to Bliss. In the end Bliss won, but at the same time it wasn’t normal level Bliss. That protects Asuka.This is more interesting than Asuka’s last few months playing Lanas or Flairs bff. I’m interested in where this part of the story is going. I hope Alexa destroys Flair next week.. Here's the problem though. Asuka fans have been told since her streak was snapped to "WAIT AND SEE" where these stories go. Spoiler alert: It's either going to get worse for Asuka or it won't be followed up on at all. The absolute last thing the RAW Women's Division needed (or any women's division in general) is a women's version of The Fiend running around. Or at least someone as lacking as Bliss is (in the ring). One thing that was consistent about The Fiend/Bray Wyatt matches is that outside of his match against Daniel Bryan at the Rumble last year, he's consistently had some of the absolute worst matches on every show he's wrestled on. Outside of his hocus pocus character work, he's absolutely wretched at everything else. And now that they have someone like Alexa doing the same thing, who is just as limited as Bray, now the women have to suffer the same fate. Except its going to be even worse since there is no midcard there.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 19, 2021 0:05:46 GMT -5
Tonight was pretty much just the nail in the coffin for Asuka. I absolutely adore her. She's one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. But her booking has been a complete and utter travesty, and WWE committed first degree murder with her character and aura tonight. There is zero chance she bounces back from this, mainly because its WWE and telling satisfying stories is near impossible for them. IMO Asuka's aura was already killed dead a few years ago when they had her lose twice to Carmella and made her look stupid during both matches. She's had some cool moments and great matches since then, but I think those booking decisions are still the worst. Eh, she also beat Becky Lynch clean, tapping her out even. I wouldn't go that far.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jan 19, 2021 0:07:17 GMT -5
Both of those incidents are strong reasons why these threads exist in the first place though. I guess what I was trying to say was those booking decisions were way worse. Hate to say the words “let’s wait and see” but I could see this going in a lot of different and interesting directions. I know the way it should go, but WWE usually doesn't, that's the issue And I know there has been worse... but for some people when they see more of the same trends, it magnifies those past instances, it starts to build onto the last, if that makes sense to you. People are fed up to say the last I hope Asuka responds well, but people thought they were gonna follow up the Orton Match Cliffhanger well and the following week Orton just went "Eh, I just didn't do it" so... I don't expect it, but I'd love to be surprised.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 19, 2021 0:09:33 GMT -5
My issue is this... The divisions on both brands are still WAY too small, and by a long friggin’ way. Both shows probably need about another 10 women each if they’re gonna sustain separate singles divisions and a shared tag division.
But the consequence of that is, when you’re trying to establish a new character slant like Fiendette Alexa Bliss (I’ll use that for the shorthand here), there’s hardly anyone of value for her to do the act on and have it be like “Oh WOW, if THIS person is rattled, then Bliss is really on some shit here” because half your division has already been fed to them to prop them up. It means NOTHING if Dana Brooke is scared of The Fiendette, because you haven’t been given any reasons to give a shit about anything that Dana Brooke does. You need people for Brooke to beat, so Brooke has credibility to spare when you’re trying to get The Fiendette over and not have to use Asuka’s.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Jan 19, 2021 0:25:48 GMT -5
My issue is this... The divisions on both brands are still WAY too small, and by a long friggin’ way. Both shows probably need about another 10 women each if they’re gonna sustain separate singles divisions and a shared tag division. But the consequence of that is, when you’re trying to establish a new character slant like Fiendette Alexa Bliss (I’ll use that for the shorthand here), there’s hardly anyone of value for her to do the act on and have it be like “Oh WOW, if THIS person is rattled, then Bliss is really on some shit here” because half your division has already been fed to them to prop them up. It means NOTHING if Dana Brooke is scared of The Fiendette, because you haven’t been given any reasons to give a shit about anything that Dana Brooke does. You need people for Brooke to beat, so Brooke has credibility to spare when you’re trying to get The Fiendette over and not have to use Asuka’s. They also have to set some sort of weakness for the Fiend and Fiendlexa short of setting them on fire (and I guess kicks in the balls, in the Fiend's case). I wonder what that could be...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 0:26:15 GMT -5
Until the Flair heel turn there’s NOTHING else for Asuka to do.
Nia & Shayna are feuding with Mandy and Brooke.
Peyton is taking pinfalls for above average Flair vs. Evans fued.
Nikki Cross and Mia are fighting forever on mainevent.
That’s the entire division.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 0:30:02 GMT -5
Might as well post this here as well. I had to leave the live thread and finish the show later. I’m actually fine with the main event. I looked at it as the Fiend possessing Alexa. Now Asuka has to fight a “God” level character like the Fiend. She looked like a badass. Asuka didn’t hide or runaway she took it to Bliss. In the end Bliss won, but at the same time it wasn’t normal level Bliss. That protects Asuka.This is more interesting than Asuka’s last few months playing Lanas or Flairs bff. I’m interested in where this part of the story is going. I hope Alexa destroys Flair next week.. Here's the problem though. Asuka fans have been told since her streak was snapped to "WAIT AND SEE" where these stories go. Spoiler alert: It's either going to get worse for Asuka or it won't be followed up on at all. The absolute last thing the RAW Women's Division needed (or any women's division in general) is a women's version of The Fiend running around. Or at least someone as lacking as Bliss is (in the ring). One thing that was consistent about The Fiend/Bray Wyatt matches is that outside of his match against Daniel Bryan at the Rumble last year, he's consistently had some of the absolute worst matches on every show he's wrestled on. Outside of his hocus pocus character work, he's absolutely wretched at everything else. And now that they have someone like Alexa doing the same thing, who is just as limited as Bray, now the women have to suffer the same fate. Except its going to be even worse since there is no midcard there. I enjoy the Fiend. I think Braun, the Miz, and Seth Rollins are garbage faces long before they went head to head with the Fiend. I look at tonight’s match as closer to the one DB had than any of the others.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2021 0:38:53 GMT -5
Maybe the problem is Triple H shouldn’t book god level woman’s champions in NXT. He did it with Asuka, then Shayna, and now IO. They hit the main roster and have no where else to go but crashing down.
There’s hardly any new mid carders any more there’s no one new fighting over US and IC titles. Now it’s just (blank) from NXT. Then just like the women, guys like Keith Lee have no where to go but the main event, that’s right after debuting and they have no where else to go but down.
1/3 of the audience watches NXT, and so that’s 1/3 that didn’t get to see this character grow and become who they are. Then their thrown on the main shows like we know who they are why we should care about them. At the same time changing what got them over in the first place. It’s why a good chunk of them fail. It’s even worse for the women you have to get over right away or your put on main event.
They really need to figure out a better way to connect NXT to main roster. Is it on par? Is it developmental? Is it even cannon? It feels like it changes every week.
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Post by Dub H on Jan 19, 2021 0:41:07 GMT -5
That is the issue,some people try to argue all her accolades.
But it doesnt matter if she gets all these accolades if she gets booked as third fiddle and unimportant all the time.The only reason she wins titles is so she can lose it to someone Vince likes.
She is the absolute best wrestler in the company.
Not a female wreatler,the best wrestleer period and she keeps being booked to the ground every time she gets a single momentum
And then people have the gal to keep telling Asuka's fans that it isnt that bad.It is not even about being booked as as the best ,it is just completely shoving her down the card and destroying her credibility every time she manages to recover.
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Post by dex on Jan 19, 2021 0:49:03 GMT -5
My issue is this... The divisions on both brands are still WAY too small, and by a long friggin’ way. Both shows probably need about another 10 women each if they’re gonna sustain separate singles divisions and a shared tag division. But the consequence of that is, when you’re trying to establish a new character slant like Fiendette Alexa Bliss (I’ll use that for the shorthand here), there’s hardly anyone of value for her to do the act on and have it be like “Oh WOW, if THIS person is rattled, then Bliss is really on some shit here” because half your division has already been fed to them to prop them up. It means NOTHING if Dana Brooke is scared of The Fiendette, because you haven’t been given any reasons to give a shit about anything that Dana Brooke does. You need people for Brooke to beat, so Brooke has credibility to spare when you’re trying to get The Fiendette over and not have to use Asuka’s. The divisions are too small and the booking for most women outside a select few is really bad or at least inconsistent. Lacey had been doing nothing for months before this feud with Charlotte , same with Peyton. Nikki Cross has basically been stuck on main event for months. Mia Yim is stuck in a dead end stable trading wins with Nikki on main event. But yes the small roster size is also a big problem. I don't know why they don't use talents like Vanessa and Santana who are stuck in this weird call-up limbo. They aren't anything super special but they would at least add numbers to the division.
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