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Post by Loser troll. Please ban me on May 21, 2022 9:43:38 GMT -5
I'm never going to not enjoy this. Roman is like if Thanos won in Avangers, but then Thanos' minions also won, and beat down whoever was left, just to make sure you REALLY knew Thanos won, and Thanos and company were superior in every way. But they did that for like... seven films, and plan to make more. ... I'd genuinely watch that movie, not gonna lie. This is why the angle continues. For reasons that will forever escape me people find either; Everyone looking terrible except one person enjoyable or Ha Ha look how miserable everyone is watching this. Either way, I'm glad I walked away years ago.
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Post by cornettesracket on May 21, 2022 9:45:59 GMT -5
I’ve gone from being happy that he turned heel after all the other rubbish vince had him doing but while he’s really good at being a heel, it’s starting to get a bit ridiculous.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on May 21, 2022 10:41:21 GMT -5
The segment last night was great. We had a thread of it but the Bloodline wasn't really doing a lot of heel shit. Just a lot of shit-talking. Last night was needed to get some real heel heat. I was getting tired of the cool heel shit. I know they were doing a good job when they had kids in the crowd crying. That's good heat.
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bob
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Post by bob on May 21, 2022 11:29:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 14:23:03 GMT -5
I'm never going to not enjoy this. ... I'd genuinely watch that movie, not gonna lie. This is why the angle continues. For reasons that will forever escape me people find either; Everyone looking terrible except one person enjoyable or Ha Ha look how miserable everyone is watching this. Either way, I'm glad I walked away years ago. Well, I'd genuinely watch the Thanos movie because I hate the MCU and always have. I'm not particularly happy about the Roman Reigns thing because there is no end goal in sight and, once upon a time, I actually tuned in regularly to WWE with interest. So it's not exactly an apt comparison.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 21, 2022 14:24:25 GMT -5
Honestly, if his title reign had ended at Backlash last year, I'd say it was one of the best booked heel title runs of all time. He beats the top babyface in the company and sends him packing. Then you have a perpetually underrated fan favorite coming to avenge his fallen friend. That would have made a brand new star and gained a lot of fan interest.
Instead the potential star is beaten clean, beaten down post match and never comes anywhere near the main event scene again.
He's somehow managed to have a title reign which as peaked twice over, and is still very clearly going for at leas another 4 months until there's even a chance he drops it.
All these talents have gotten buried in a title reign which has shown that WWE is completely incapable of long term booking. Honestly nothing that has happened in the first half of his title reign even feels like it matters. It's just become noise at this point. It doesn't matter that he beat two all time greats in the main event of Wrestlemania last year, it doesn't matter that he was the one hill that Daniel Bryan, the greatest underdog ever couldn't overcome, it doesn't matter that he beat John Cena in one of the biggest matches in recent memory, it doesn't matter that he was the first person to ever truly defeat the Demon on the main roster. Do you know why? None of it is ever going to be mentioned again, except vaguely as him being dominant. Because the history of his reign doesn't matter no payoff is going to be satisfying.
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bob
Backup Wench
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started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
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Post by bob on May 21, 2022 14:51:47 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 19:40:18 GMT -5
So... Roman loses by DUI?
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on May 21, 2022 19:42:12 GMT -5
Last night was one of the best heel beatdowns in recent memory. The shots of the kids crying...perfection.
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bob
Backup Wench
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 80,617
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Post by bob on May 21, 2022 20:16:00 GMT -5
So... Roman loses by DUI?
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Dave the Dave
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Post by Dave the Dave on May 21, 2022 23:58:59 GMT -5
Kids crying at a heel beat down can work great if there is a payoff. It’s just f***ing heel heat forever. Sick. Can’t wait for Roman to win the next 15 matches he has regardless.
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Post by "American Nightmare" B.B. Bart on May 22, 2022 0:10:56 GMT -5
Kids crying at a heel beat down can work great if there is a payoff. It’s just f***ing heel heat forever. Sick. Can’t wait for Roman to win the next 15 matches he has regardless. At this point, the payoff should just be an entire Smackdown episode of everyone kicking Roman’s ass in a reverse of that “Antonio Inoki slaps everyone” video.
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Post by King Boo on May 22, 2022 0:22:15 GMT -5
I swear, the last time I used this, it was because of Roman also. Literally years ago.
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Post by thechase on May 22, 2022 4:23:55 GMT -5
My nickname for Roman now is Tribal H.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
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Post by msc on May 22, 2022 5:36:22 GMT -5
Kids crying at a heel beat down can work great if there is a payoff. It’s just f***ing heel heat forever. Sick. Can’t wait for Roman to win the next 15 matches he has regardless. At this point, the payoff should just be an entire Smackdown episode of everyone kicking Roman’s ass in a reverse of that “Antonio Inoki slaps everyone” video. In ECW in 2000 (that's longer ago than I like), they had Rhyno as the big heel unstoppable TV champ, and he had a stable and manager behind him, and they just kept doing heeling over and over for like 6 months. And then, when he took on Kid Kash, suddenly every person Rhyno's group had wronged came back to get them - from Balls Mahoney, to Sandman, to a returning RVD. Rhyno's group got their ass kicked and the face won the belt to huge cheers. (The face lost the belt back to Rhyno about a week later. Heyman loves misery booking. Ahem.) But now I'm imagining that as the end of Reigns's run. He's facing, say, Drew, and the Bloodline keep interfering, but more and more ghosts from Roman's past show up till he's getting every receipt at once - Kevin Owens, the New Day, Seth Rollins, Brock, Bray Wyatt on a jetpack, etc.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 22, 2022 10:50:51 GMT -5
Honestly, if his title reign had ended at Backlash last year, I'd say it was one of the best booked heel title runs of all time. He beats the top babyface in the company and sends him packing. Then you have a perpetually underrated fan favorite coming to avenge his fallen friend. That would have made a brand new star and gained a lot of fan interest. Instead the potential star is beaten clean, beaten down post match and never comes anywhere near the main event scene again. He's somehow managed to have a title reign which as peaked twice over, and is still very clearly going for at leas another 4 months until there's even a chance he drops it. All these talents have gotten buried in a title reign which has shown that WWE is completely incapable of long term booking. Honestly nothing that has happened in the first half of his title reign even feels like it matters. It's just become noise at this point. It doesn't matter that he beat two all time greats in the main event of Wrestlemania last year, it doesn't matter that he was the one hill that Daniel Bryan, the greatest underdog ever couldn't overcome, it doesn't matter that he beat John Cena in one of the biggest matches in recent memory, it doesn't matter that he was the first person to ever truly defeat the Demon on the main roster. Do you know why? None of it is ever going to be mentioned again, except vaguely as him being dominant. Because the history of his reign doesn't matter no payoff is going to be satisfying. I’m sure I’ve mentioned this in this thread before, but yeah, it’s kind of remarkable from the outside looking in: long title reigns typically are meant to either contain a series of great matches, serve to build a champion as the top star, get a bunch of challengers over, tell a long form story about what finally reveals the champ’s weaknesses, then gets whomever dethrones the champ over, etc. It’s usually some combination thereof. Reading how people talk about this reign, it’s weird to not hear about a lot of notable matches (though I’m sure there’s been some), to hear that nobody’s really come off looking better for having challenges Roman even in defeat, and that there doesn’t seem to be a story taking shape about what will eventually take Roman down. Without any of that, nothing that happened in the title reign really matters. Samoa Joe’s near two year ROH title reign served to get him over as a top draw for the company, provided a lot of good matches but also importantly made a lot of his challengers look good in defeat, and eventually built to a couple false leads, first that Joe was likely to lose to a flash pin and then that Punk had Joe’s number by forcing him into drawn out matches and focusing on headlocks to grind him down. In the end, neither strategy worked, as instead it was Aries’ rapid fire combination offense that finally took Joe down. Great all-around reign. Okada’s record breaking IWGP title reign was to cement him as company ace, and to showcase him against a really varied array of different opponents with different styles. Just about everyone who challenged him came out looking strong, and it took height of his powers Kenny Omega to dethrone him in a two out of three falls match. His next reign was him as “the obstacle”, serving as the final boss to Naito finally achieving his destiny and winning the big one at Wrestle Kingdom. Purposes were served, and a bunch of those title defenses are all-time favorites for many. Again, I don’t watch WWE so maybe I’m off base in some regards, but by this stage they need to be getting to a story beat of some kind. Roman’s matches should tell the audience something about him and/or his opponents; his matches should start revealing what might be his weaknesses; his promos should show how each defense impacts him as a character; and whatever/whomever it is that finally stops him should be getting steadily built, even if the eventually loss comes as at least a minor surprise, as Aries beating Joe in ROH did. If that’s not really happening, then your key point here will be spot on: that none of this will matter. A reign like this needs to have an impact on entire story and character arcs across the company, but without showing that in any matches you’re just playing the same song on repeat over and over again, instead. That worked for Hulk Hogan in the 80s since his title matches by and large weren’t televised, but that won’t work today.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on May 22, 2022 12:16:15 GMT -5
If Jacob Fatu was signed by them, he's probably have both The US and IC title right now as well
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on May 22, 2022 13:09:02 GMT -5
Honestly, if his title reign had ended at Backlash last year, I'd say it was one of the best booked heel title runs of all time. He beats the top babyface in the company and sends him packing. Then you have a perpetually underrated fan favorite coming to avenge his fallen friend. That would have made a brand new star and gained a lot of fan interest. Instead the potential star is beaten clean, beaten down post match and never comes anywhere near the main event scene again. He's somehow managed to have a title reign which as peaked twice over, and is still very clearly going for at leas another 4 months until there's even a chance he drops it. All these talents have gotten buried in a title reign which has shown that WWE is completely incapable of long term booking. Honestly nothing that has happened in the first half of his title reign even feels like it matters. It's just become noise at this point. It doesn't matter that he beat two all time greats in the main event of Wrestlemania last year, it doesn't matter that he was the one hill that Daniel Bryan, the greatest underdog ever couldn't overcome, it doesn't matter that he beat John Cena in one of the biggest matches in recent memory, it doesn't matter that he was the first person to ever truly defeat the Demon on the main roster. Do you know why? None of it is ever going to be mentioned again, except vaguely as him being dominant. Because the history of his reign doesn't matter no payoff is going to be satisfying. I’m sure I’ve mentioned this in this thread before, but yeah, it’s kind of remarkable from the outside looking in: long title reigns typically are meant to either contain a series of great matches, serve to build a champion as the top star, get a bunch of challengers over, tell a long form story about what finally reveals the champ’s weaknesses, then gets whomever dethrones the champ over, etc. It’s usually some combination thereof. Reading how people talk about this reign, it’s weird to not hear about a lot of notable matches (though I’m sure there’s been some), to hear that nobody’s really come off looking better for having challenges Roman even in defeat, and that there doesn’t seem to be a story taking shape about what will eventually take Roman down. Without any of that, nothing that happened in the title reign really matters. Samoa Joe’s near two year ROH title reign served to get him over as a top draw for the company, provided a lot of good matches but also importantly made a lot of his challengers look good in defeat, and eventually built to a couple false leads, first that Joe was likely to lose to a flash pin and then that Punk had Joe’s number by forcing him into drawn out matches and focusing on headlocks to grind him down. In the end, neither strategy worked, as instead it was Aries’ rapid fire combination offense that finally took Joe down. Great all-around reign. Okada’s record breaking IWGP title reign was to cement him as company ace, and to showcase him against a really varied array of different opponents with different styles. Just about everyone who challenged him came out looking strong, and it took height of his powers Kenny Omega to dethrone him in a two out of three falls match. His next reign was him as “the obstacle”, serving as the final boss to Naito finally achieving his destiny and winning the big one at Wrestle Kingdom. Purposes were served, and a bunch of those title defenses are all-time favorites for many. Again, I don’t watch WWE so maybe I’m off base in some regards, but by this stage they need to be getting to a story beat of some kind. Roman’s matches should tell the audience something about him and/or his opponents; his matches should start revealing what might be his weaknesses; his promos should show how each defense impacts him as a character; and whatever/whomever it is that finally stops him should be getting steadily built, even if the eventually loss comes as at least a minor surprise, as Aries beating Joe in ROH did. If that’s not really happening, then your key point here will be spot on: that none of this will matter. A reign like this needs to have an impact on entire story and character arcs across the company, but without showing that in any matches you’re just playing the same song on repeat over and over again, instead. That worked for Hulk Hogan in the 80s since his title matches by and large weren’t televised, but that won’t work today. Honestly about half of his title defenses have him in a position where he absolutely was about to lose if not for the intervention of the Usos. The problem in this case though he has had more than one defense where he has won on his own, even in a title defense where the build involved his opponent acknowledging his inability to retain the title without help. For the most part his matches and victories aren't really referenced much after they happened. The person loses (Usually due to interference) slink back to the midcard and never rise to that level again, and Roman just kind of moves on with his life and never mentions it again. They never bring up that the guy was cheated out of the title again and they just pretty much sit there and take it which makes them look even worse than if they'd just lost fair and square and walked away. No development, no build, no meaning. Just Roman wins.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 22, 2022 13:43:26 GMT -5
I’m sure I’ve mentioned this in this thread before, but yeah, it’s kind of remarkable from the outside looking in: long title reigns typically are meant to either contain a series of great matches, serve to build a champion as the top star, get a bunch of challengers over, tell a long form story about what finally reveals the champ’s weaknesses, then gets whomever dethrones the champ over, etc. It’s usually some combination thereof. Reading how people talk about this reign, it’s weird to not hear about a lot of notable matches (though I’m sure there’s been some), to hear that nobody’s really come off looking better for having challenges Roman even in defeat, and that there doesn’t seem to be a story taking shape about what will eventually take Roman down. Without any of that, nothing that happened in the title reign really matters. Samoa Joe’s near two year ROH title reign served to get him over as a top draw for the company, provided a lot of good matches but also importantly made a lot of his challengers look good in defeat, and eventually built to a couple false leads, first that Joe was likely to lose to a flash pin and then that Punk had Joe’s number by forcing him into drawn out matches and focusing on headlocks to grind him down. In the end, neither strategy worked, as instead it was Aries’ rapid fire combination offense that finally took Joe down. Great all-around reign. Okada’s record breaking IWGP title reign was to cement him as company ace, and to showcase him against a really varied array of different opponents with different styles. Just about everyone who challenged him came out looking strong, and it took height of his powers Kenny Omega to dethrone him in a two out of three falls match. His next reign was him as “the obstacle”, serving as the final boss to Naito finally achieving his destiny and winning the big one at Wrestle Kingdom. Purposes were served, and a bunch of those title defenses are all-time favorites for many. Again, I don’t watch WWE so maybe I’m off base in some regards, but by this stage they need to be getting to a story beat of some kind. Roman’s matches should tell the audience something about him and/or his opponents; his matches should start revealing what might be his weaknesses; his promos should show how each defense impacts him as a character; and whatever/whomever it is that finally stops him should be getting steadily built, even if the eventually loss comes as at least a minor surprise, as Aries beating Joe in ROH did. If that’s not really happening, then your key point here will be spot on: that none of this will matter. A reign like this needs to have an impact on entire story and character arcs across the company, but without showing that in any matches you’re just playing the same song on repeat over and over again, instead. That worked for Hulk Hogan in the 80s since his title matches by and large weren’t televised, but that won’t work today. Honestly about half of his title defenses have him in a position where he absolutely was about to lose if not for the intervention of the Usos. The problem in this case though he has had more than one defense where he has won on his own, even in a title defense where the build involved his opponent acknowledging his inability to retain the title without help. For the most part his matches and victories aren't really referenced much after they happened. The person loses (Usually due to interference) slink back to the midcard and never rise to that level again, and Roman just kind of moves on with his life and never mentions it again. They never bring up that the guy was cheated out of the title again and they just pretty much sit there and take it which makes them look even worse than if they'd just lost fair and square and walked away. No development, no build, no meaning. Just Roman wins. Yeah, if he was a face and winning clean I’d get that, but when he’s cheating them and there’s not even a reference to it that’s pretty lame. A huge criticism of Cena over the years was that his character never evolved at any point regardless what happened to him, but at least he was meant to be the good guy and him winning was supposed to please the crowd. Having a static *heel* champion for this long is a whole other level of trouble.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 23, 2022 10:23:25 GMT -5
This is a reason people don't take SRS well... serious. Because he enjoyed it? I thought that was a great main event with a hot crowd. And helps set up the next two challengers to Roman (if reports are true).
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