Shark
Hank Scorpio
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Post by Shark on Mar 12, 2021 17:53:45 GMT -5
I bring this up after something I saw a friend of mine mention on Twitter the other day. He noted after MJF created his new faction that it was another super group of white guys. He's brought up this issue several times, noting that black wrestlers aren't rarely featured in main event programs. The main event scene in AEW is pretty monochromatic. Now, Omega will face either Swann or Moose at the next PPV, but they are Impact wrestlers and it's highly unlikely Omega loses that match. I recall about a year or so ago, this same issue was brought up. Has it gotten any better since then? Penta now seems to be gaining some momentum, which is good, and this issue doesn't seen to be a thing with the women's division since Jade and Red Velvet are always featured and Big Swole was making waves before her health issues flared up.
It is kind of weird that WWE is actually well ahead of AEW in this area.
But I do ask this, is there a lack of diversity in AEW and is it a problem they have to address?
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 12, 2021 17:55:15 GMT -5
In terms of the roster as a whole, not really.
In terms of what's actually consistently featured, absolutely yes.
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Post by eJm on Mar 12, 2021 18:01:24 GMT -5
In terms of the roster as a whole, not really. In terms of what's actually consistently featured, absolutely yes. Like, the signings they've made the last few months are really diverse in varying ways (Lee Johnson, Top Flight, The Acclaimed, Shawn Dean, Eddie Kingston etc) and the people featured on Dark aren't exactly cookie-cutter wrestling standard either. When Moxley goes on maternity leave, now would be a good time to get Kingston up there, Fenix is ready, have Top Flight chase for the tag titles etc, just shake things up a bit.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 12, 2021 18:02:12 GMT -5
It's an issue with the men's singles division especially the main event scene. But as far as diversity goes, they're well-represented in the tag and women's divisions. MJF's faction is also an anomaly in that it is all white guys. Besides them and whatever Omega's club is called, a lot of the current factions now have at least one PoC in them.
Hoping something comes out of the moves made with Penta and Scorpio Sky. And TK is apparently very high on Fenix. Eddie Kingston is also someone who's been featured fairly prominently in main event programs and being with Moxley now helps put him back in that scene.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 12, 2021 18:07:33 GMT -5
They've made considerable push in terms of diversifying the roster the past year and by the looks of things it's getting there. I really don't think AEW should be worried about the skin color of certain talents in terms of should they be in a current spot or not. Optics wise MJF's faction being what it is was no issue with me, they're basically a Next Gen Horseman
With the different types of talent they have though, I feel it's only a matter of time till we see Penta, Fenix, Kingston, PNP, Guevara, and more featured more and more as must see talent. Hell Will Hobbs will be on his way as well. Then you have Lee Johnson and Shawn Dean who are absolutely being prepped for the long term, and as much as he needs to make some people care, they've really tried with Scorpio Sky as well.
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blah3x
Mike the Goon
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Post by blah3x on Mar 12, 2021 18:13:18 GMT -5
They certainly do. Lee Johnson has been there a year and won one match on Dynamite(right back to jobbing this week lol), which was really only done to promote that Cody BHM shirt. Sonny Kiss hasn’t been on Dynamite in a long while. Sky is a choker. Hobbs is a background character, as are Private Party and Top Flight.
After how inclusive they were preaching they were gonna be it really feels like AEW only caters to one audience.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 12, 2021 18:14:09 GMT -5
To be fair the only reason Sky wasnt a more feature player is himself.
But I feel like it is just a matter of time till more PoC rise
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 12, 2021 18:18:50 GMT -5
I also like that AEW really isn't afraid to go all over the world for talent. Cause the likes of M'Badu (Nigeria), Ariel Levy (Chile), and El Australiano (Australia) definitely broaden the horizon of how much they really like to give the world a spotlight.
The China deal also might've been way more prominant if not for the pandemic too.
Including all the different types of ethnicities in the Women's Division I'd say right now AEW's one of the more diverse rosters I've ever seen as a whole.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Mar 12, 2021 18:20:39 GMT -5
Well it depends on how you define it being a problem. When the company was formed, they tried to get the best talent possible under contract. I'm sure if they could've gotten a Lashley or a Keith Lee or a Sasha Banks, they would have. What they did have was the Elite, Moxley, PAC, Jericho, etc. They had no problem pushing women of color because those were the best hands they had. To me there's a problem if you have comparable talents and continually go with one particular set people over another. But if you look at who's risen through the ranks on DARK, you have guys like Hobbs and the Acclaimed who are making their way through the ranks. They also have a ton of young diverse talent and I have faith that they'll make their way through the ranks as they get more experience.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 12, 2021 18:26:22 GMT -5
They certainly do. Lee Johnson has been there a year and won one match on Dynamite(right back to jobbing this week lol), which was really only done to promote that Cody BHM shirt. Sonny Kiss hasn’t been on Dynamite in a long while. Sky is a choker. Hobbs is a background character, as are Private Party and Top Flight. After how inclusive they were preaching they were gonna be it really feels like AEW only caters to one audience. Lee Johnson's a high calibur prospect, he's like 23, so him winning and then losing doesn't and shouldn't devalue the fact they see a lot in him. He also lasted what ten minutes against Ethan Page? It's not like he lost in a minute and got no offense in. Sonny was splitting time between schooling and wrestling and I think continues to structure their game and continue getting better. Cody and backstage see a lot in Sonny for the future of the brand too, insanely young and talented. Sky needs a gimmick but is a good wrestler who has been trusted in the spots he has because of that. He's also a former and one half of the first ever AEW Tag Team Champion, that's in the record books, "Choker" or not. Hobbs has been the most protected member of Team Taz. He hasn't been pinned since joining them and has been killing guys in minutes. Private Party had a shot at the Impact Tag Belts and have been a mainstay in trying to help Matt Hardy. Both Cassidy and Quen have been getting spotlights, and are also both crazy young and have a ton of upside. Same with Top Flight who are even younger and clearly have a lot seen in them off the Young Bucks match alone. Acclaimed weren't even mentioned here but Caster got a PPV Ladder Match spot and both have been very heavily featured, getting a match vs Jericho and MJF, The Bucks for the belts, etc. They definitely trust these two to hold their own against the upper talent and both are also young with a ton of upside, Caster especially. The point I'm trying to make here is you're really trying to say AEW doesn't care but these talents or "Only cares about one audience" and them being signed and featured or being prepped for the future implies the exact opposite. Just because they aren't in the main event NOW doesn't mean they won't be, they have a lot on their side.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2021 18:32:30 GMT -5
It is a problem, though it's one that's getting a lot better than it was when the company started at least.
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Post by romanstylesiii on Mar 12, 2021 18:33:29 GMT -5
Honestly, my favorite people to talk about social issues are wrestling fans who bragged about not finishing high school in other posts
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Mar 12, 2021 18:39:14 GMT -5
I think one of the issues I've seen is that a lot of their PoC talents are young. They're guys that are good for their age, and will be even better with a year or two more of experience. But, that's still a year or two away.
Plus, as Jack Evans pointed out, a lot of the creative is pitched by the wrestlers themselves. If you aren't used to pitching your own ideas, or were never really taught how to, you're gonna slip between the cracks, while guys like Miro and Jericho, who DO have that experience, will get that screen time.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 12, 2021 18:42:04 GMT -5
We've had threads on this before, and the thing I look back on when AEW was getting started is that, honestly, the entirety of American wrestling has been pretty damn deficient in promoting particularly African-American talent since WWF went national in the mid-80s. Lots of territories promoting top acts who were black or African-American, but once WWF was on everywhere you could count on one hand the number of featured black talents for many, many years...and frankly, when JCP became WCW and went national they didn't do much better, despite growing out of a territory that had more black talent to draw from nearby. Between the two promotions you had Ron Simmons, Harlem Heat, Ahmed Johnson, the Rock (ethnically African-Canadian, but not always regarded as such racially by the audience given his Pacific Islander appearance), Mark Henry, and very few others who even got to sniff a top position that could carry their star power to other promotions, while TNA pushed Ron Killings to the NWA title and, again, few others until Pope and Bobby Lashley showed up later. Even ROH spent much of its golden era hurting for black talent, and they were looking for newer, younger wrestlers to draw from rather than established 80s-90s stars.
Point is, I think at least with regards to black wrestlers in the US, it's only in the past decade or so that we've finally started to see greater representation and a generation of guys who had the ability and the popularity to sign anywhere and make it to the top...but by the time AEW was getting started nearly all of them got swooped up by WWE (Cedric, ACH, Lio Rush, Ricochet, Lashley, etc.) or had already settled into promotions like Impact (Moose, Swann, Mack) or ROH (Gresham, Shane Taylor). For AEW's initial main event scene, those were a lot of really, really interesting options who were off the table.
Granted, that's only African-American wrestlers, not every minority group, but given that most of the arguments about this with regards to AEW focused on its men's main event scene I think it bears looking into how the larger American scene has spent years not exactly pushing a ton of non-white main eventers, at least not ones who would have been easily signable for AEW in its first year who could've come in and instantly been shot to the top, which leaves them bringing in a lot of guys who'll need time to be built up to that top level. The one thing I will always agree on, though, is that they could've done more much earlier on with the Lucha Brothers, but at least Penta and Fenix have always been presented as legitimate threats who can make it to the top at any time (and hopefully that's happening now); still, they're so damn good that they could've been top title threats from day one.
And yeah, we can still point to AEW having three women's champs so far who have all been non-white, and Sky winning the tag titles initially with Kazarian, but again, it's the main event scene where more building needs to be done.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Mar 12, 2021 18:47:31 GMT -5
Like I mentioned in another thread, they've been TRYING to make Scorpio into a main eventer/big deal for a long time, people just didn't care.
Hobbs is young, but he's going to be something. He was immediately put into an angle with Moxley/Darby when he first made it to Dynamite before becoming part of Team Taz
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 12, 2021 18:53:39 GMT -5
Like I mentioned in another thread, they've been TRYING to make Scorpio into a main eventer/big deal for a long time, people just didn't care. Hobbs is young, but he's going to be something. He was immediately put into an angle with Moxley/Darby when he first made it to Dynamite before becoming part of Team Taz This is where a lot of the PoC talent are for AEW, extremely young and clearly have a lot of potential and AEW sees that in them Top Flight: A Showcase match vs The Young Bucks, opened the Post-NBA Game AEW vs Jericho Acclaimed: Had a Tag Title match vs Young Bucks, a Showcase with Jericho/MJF, Caster got to compete in the Revolution Ladder Match Private Party: Beat The Young Bucks early on, Matt Hardy is now trying to elevate them. Quen had a TNT Title match, Kassidy has had showcase matches alone vs Jericho and Hangman Sonny Kiss: Been touted as someone they see a bright future in repeatedly, had a big showcase match vs Cody for the TNT Title. Hobbs: Hasn't lost since joining Team Taz, had a really great match vs Cage for the FTW Title. Was immediately put in a big program with Darby and Cody where his heel turn ended a Dynamite. These guys wouldn't be getting these opportunities and features if AEW didn't like them a lot. And considering most of them are in their early to mid 20s, they are going to be around for the next decade if AEW can help it, and that's not including the likes of Lee Johnson, Shawn Dean, and Carlie Bravo as well.
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blah3x
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Post by blah3x on Mar 12, 2021 18:54:38 GMT -5
Aren’t Darby, Jungle Boy, MJF, Kip and most of Dark Order all relatively young too? Why hasn’t that affected them being featured on TV regularly or getting storylines?🤔
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Mar 12, 2021 18:55:19 GMT -5
It's an issue with the men's singles division especially the main event scene. But as far as diversity goes, they're well-represented in the tag and women's divisions. MJF's faction is also an anomaly in that it is all white guys. Besides them and whatever Omega's club is called, a lot of the current factions now have at least one PoC in them. Hoping something comes out of the moves made with Penta and Scorpio Sky. And TK is apparently very high on Fenix. Eddie Kingston is also someone who's been featured fairly prominently in main event programs and being with Moxley now helps put him back in that scene. Sammy is also hispanic and will probably lead the IC with Jericho likely taking time off.
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kidkamikaze10
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Mar 12, 2021 18:57:54 GMT -5
The issue is a little different than not having diversity on the roster. The problem is not utilizing them prominently enough.
Pretty much the E’s Luchador/Japanese wrestler problem.
This is more on the men’s side though. Women side is really diverse in comparison. They do need to elevate their black wrestlers.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 12, 2021 19:00:55 GMT -5
I don't think it's weird at all. WWE has some of the top Black and PoC talent in Western Hemisphere at the time of AEW's start and were the only game in town for decades. They should be well ahead of a startup like AEW in that regard. They're also (finally) pushing Black talent as legit main eventers. They've had more Black WWE Champions (Kofi, Lashley) in the last 3 years than they've had in the last three decades (The Rock). It took a long time to get there, but progress is progress.
What really hurts AEW in terms of upper end representation is that most of their Black talent are on the younger, inexperienced side. Scorpio Sky is the only Black veteran I can think of on the roster (and he wasn't exactly a household name at the time), with most everyone else already committed to other companies. It also doesn't help the perception that all the veteran talent they to get to sign deals lately are white dudes.
It's going to have to be a long-term goal for them.
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