Jonathan Michaels
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Post by Jonathan Michaels on Mar 22, 2021 22:24:33 GMT -5
I’m legitimately hard pressed to think of the last time a company gave an over performer a strong push by beating a legend and followed it up as poorly as they have with Orange Cassidy.
What was even the point, Cassidy is stuck as a tag guy in a fairly heatless feud
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markymark
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Post by markymark on Mar 22, 2021 22:30:35 GMT -5
Tbh, the roster back when OC was being pushed wasnt as strong as the current one.
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Chiral
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Post by Chiral on Mar 22, 2021 22:34:51 GMT -5
Just gonna get the "insert WWE feud/match with part timer/legend from 2009-2021 here" post out of the way for over performer doing poorly after a feud with a legend.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Mar 22, 2021 22:36:58 GMT -5
Honestly, he doesn’t need to be wrestling every week. His gimmick doesn’t work that way I think. Granted I agree he shouldn’t really be wrestling Ryan Nemth. I seriously doubt he’s being buried or anything.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Mar 22, 2021 22:37:38 GMT -5
A lot of guys tend to flounder for a bit after their first big career moment on a national stage. I'm not too worried yet.
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Post by moxfan1 on Mar 22, 2021 22:57:33 GMT -5
I’m legitimately hard pressed to think of the last time a company gave an over performer a strong push by beating a legend and followed it up as poorly as they have with Orange Cassidy. What was even the point, Cassidy is stuck as a tag guy in a fairly heatless feud Keep in mind after that he had super competitive TNT title match with Brodie Lee. Then he had the draw with Cody in their TNT title match. Even though he was defeated in the rematch. The feud with Miro& Kip has kinda bought him down a bit. But at same time him beating Jericho was never suppose to push him to main event scene. He's always going to be hovering around mid to upper mid card scene. With him losing most big matches to top guys in super competitive matches. Beating Jericho in his flukey ways with roll up and Jericho falling in a pool. Was just to establish him enough to when he has big matches. People say well he beat Jericho maybe he can win here too. Not every guy is put over with it leading to him moving up the card more or to main event scene. A guy like MJF is put over to do something like that. Orange Cassidy is a very popular act that's mostly going to be used in the middle of the card. He's not main event guy but you can use him in entertaining feuds with top guys. All Jericho did was give him credibility in that type of role.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2021 22:59:02 GMT -5
Also it’s crowds. Same thing happened with Otis. They were both such over the top gimmicks that the crowds pushed for hard. Probably to the point of changing booking decisions. Take that away and they both start to flounder. To the point they turned Otis heel. Bring back crowds OC will be over like gangbusters again.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Mar 22, 2021 23:05:43 GMT -5
The thing is, win or lose, as soon as Orange Cassidy starts wrestling normal competitive matches against other wrestlers-- even if they're good matches-- the mystique of his gimmick is gone. He's just another guy. The question of "So how good is Orange if he actually tries to win?" has been answered.
Is Orange Cassidy charismatic enough to adapt and continue building his persona from here? Maybe. But beating Jericho in extended matches damaged him almost as much as losing those same matches would've.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Mar 22, 2021 23:14:12 GMT -5
OC is just in a cool down periods.He is still very protected
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Mar 22, 2021 23:16:28 GMT -5
OC is just in a cool down periods.He is still very protected That’s what I’ve been thinking. Of course it depends on how the Miro/Kip feud will end which seems like it’s very soon. But yeah, despite the cool down, I do feel like he’s still protected and considered a big deal. At least to me.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 22, 2021 23:19:54 GMT -5
OC is just in a cool down periods.He is still very protected That’s what I’ve been thinking. Of course it depends on how the Miro/Kip feud will end which seems like it’s very soon. But yeah, despite the cool down, I do feel like he’s still protected and considered a big deal. At least to me. He also wasn't even supposed to BE in the Miro/Kip feud like this, it was supposed to be Best Friends, Trent tore his pec and they pivoted and had Orange more fill the role in the feud and I can't say Orange feuding with Miro is a step down by any means.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 22, 2021 23:25:18 GMT -5
The thing is, win or lose, as soon as Orange Cassidy starts wrestling normal competitive matches against other wrestlers-- even if they're good matches-- the mystique of his gimmick is gone. He's just another guy. The question of "So how good is Orange if he actually tries to win?" has been answered. Is Orange Cassidy charismatic enough to adapt and continue building his persona from here? Maybe. But beating Jericho in extended matches damaged him almost as much as losing those same matches would've. That's not true at all. He still does his spots in competitive matches, he's one of the better sellers in all of wrestling, just look at the Nemeth match tonight as an example, but more so saying him beating Jericho twice competitively, would have almost done as much damage as him losing three straight to Jericho is an absolutely ridiculous statement imo. Cassidy's still way over, he's still like the top merch guy in the company. Him being in a cool down period doesn't mean his aura is ruined or he's screwed and that to me is way too overblown. He's basically filling a void left by Trent due to a bad injury and filling it well. Miro's found his stride since feuding with him. Moreover they're probably waiting until full crowds are back to really push him, because that's where he shines too. He wraps them all in the palm of his hand. Cassidy's a star, and I feel like it's constantly undervalued just how good he actually is when I see threads and comments like this. He is not a one trick pony and he's proven it time and again, and will continue to.
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mattyy
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Post by mattyy on Mar 22, 2021 23:27:50 GMT -5
Wouldn't be surprised if OC gets pushed to the TNT Title once crowds come back too.
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kimrey
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Post by kimrey on Mar 22, 2021 23:32:27 GMT -5
He is the main reason I watch, so it’s been a little frustrating lately. I don’t think I’ll ever understand why they decided to give him three chances for the TNT title if the plan wasn’t for him to win it. They were all good matches, but I don’t get the reasoning. I’ve been pretty bitter about Darby getting that match and winning it over him at Full Gear. It made way more sense for OC to get it coming off of that feud. Then when he won that battle royale for the diamond ring I thought “well maybe this is why he didn’t get the TNT title, he’s going to get the ring” but nope, he lost that match too.
His losses are protected. He’s never lost a singles match without some sort of interference and he’s never been the one pinned in a multi-man match. But it really would be nice to see him win a “big one.”
This current feud hasn’t been all that great, they’ve had so many opportunities to make it more interesting. OC vs Chuck should have happened when Chuck was the Butler and I can’t believe they’re not going to do OC vs Miro. That really should have been the match and the end of the feud at Revolution.
I’m fine with him and Chuck staying as a tag team. But they need to win and/or be on TV, even if they’re not wrestling all the time. My hope is they’ll introduce the trios titles or a trios tournament when Trent is back and they will win it. I think they definitely deserve it for all the hard work they put in last year.
I’m not too concerned yet, but we’ll just have to see what happens after the Kip/Miro feud. I’m sure when crowds are back he’ll thrive again. His merch sales certainly haven’t gone down, so there’s definitely still an interest there.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 22, 2021 23:38:37 GMT -5
He is the main reason I watch, so it’s been a little frustrating lately. I don’t think I’ll ever understand why they decided to give him three chances for the TNT title if the plan wasn’t for him to win it. They were all good matches, but I don’t get the reasoning. I’ve been pretty bitter about Darby getting that match and winning it over him at Full Gear. It made way more sense for OC to get it coming off of that feud. Then when he won that battle royale for the diamond ring I thought “well maybe this is why he didn’t get the TNT title, he’s going to get the ring” but nope, he lost that match too. His losses are protected. He’s never lost a singles match without some sort of interference and he’s never been the one pinned in a multi-man match. But it really would be nice to see him win a “big one.” This current feud hasn’t been all that great, they’ve had so many opportunities to make it more interesting. OC vs Chuck should have happened when Chuck was the Butler and I can’t believe they’re not going to do OC vs Miro. That really should have been the match and the end of the feud at Revolution. I’m fine with him and Chuck staying as a tag team. But they need to win and/or be on TV, even if they’re not wrestling all the time. My hope is they’ll introduce he trios titles or a trios tournament when Trent is back and they will win it. I think they definitely deserve it for all the hard word they put in last year. I’m not too concerned yet, but we’ll just have to see what happens after the Kip/Miro feud. I’m sure when crowds are back he’ll thrive again. His merch sales certainly haven’t gone down, so there’s definitely still an interest there. I would bet a bankload that they are waiting until full crowds are back for OC to get a big title feud, because he's one of those dudes who deserves the full crowd when he wins his first belt.
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kimrey
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Post by kimrey on Mar 22, 2021 23:38:51 GMT -5
That’s what I’ve been thinking. Of course it depends on how the Miro/Kip feud will end which seems like it’s very soon. But yeah, despite the cool down, I do feel like he’s still protected and considered a big deal. At least to me. He also wasn't even supposed to BE in the Miro/Kip feud like this, it was supposed to be Best Friends, Trent tore his pec and they pivoted and had Orange more fill the role in the feud and I can't say Orange feuding with Miro is a step down by any means. I’m not so sure. They had OC jump on Miro and Kip and then he and Miro had a stare down at the end of the Trent/Miro match last year. After OC beat Kip in their match Miro ran down and knocked him out and then Miro is the reason OC lost the diamond ring match against MJF. All of that happened before Trent was injured, so I think he was always meant to be involved. But to what extent, I don’t really know.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 22, 2021 23:43:00 GMT -5
He also wasn't even supposed to BE in the Miro/Kip feud like this, it was supposed to be Best Friends, Trent tore his pec and they pivoted and had Orange more fill the role in the feud and I can't say Orange feuding with Miro is a step down by any means. I’m not so sure. They had OC jump on Miro and Kip and then he and Miro had a stare down at the end of the Trent/Miro match last year. After OC beat Kip in their match Miro ran down and knocked him out and then Miro is the reason OC lost the diamond ring match against MJF. All of that happened before Trent was injured, so I think he was always meant to be involved. But to what extent, I don’t really know. I think Miro/OC was the plan but with Trent hurt I dont think they wanted to go with it in the end. And that's also why the feud ran longer than expected. Everything had to shift around starting with the Butler angle. They've done a good job with it imo, but it's good the storyline itself is also playing into how Miro wants to move on. I hope it's a good blowoff.
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Celgress
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Post by Celgress on Mar 22, 2021 23:49:45 GMT -5
I think he hasn't been downgraded in any fashion. That said, the feud with Miro & Kip has dragged on far too long. One could argue it has damaged Miro rather than OC. Although, it isn't helping anyone at this point. I think part of the problem is Trent got injured. There is little doubt in my mind OC is filling Trent's slot so Chuck who is primarily a tag team guy won't be left out in the cold.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 23, 2021 1:51:36 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is getting damaged in this feud. Trent getting injured seriously messed with the timeline of things, but, they've done a good job of making do.
I do think Orange is one of the people who is the most hurt by not having crowds, given how important crowd reaction is to his character, same with Darby to an extent. (The one who I think has taken the hardest blow, though, is Janela on that front.)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2021 2:24:49 GMT -5
Honestly even at the time the whole thing felt more like it was lowering Jericho than anything and I don't think anything's really changed that perception for me. Granted at this point I can't say as though I mind.
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