markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on Mar 26, 2021 10:03:15 GMT -5
Thats fair to give them some time to establish them more before the IC returns.
About the Kenny drawing power: Its not his fault Impact production values are low rent and likely turns off viewers besides they have some storylines that arent interesting.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Mar 26, 2021 10:06:04 GMT -5
Thats fair to give them some time to establish them more before the IC returns. About the Kenny drawing power: Its not his fault Impact production values are low rent and likely turns off viewers besides they have some storylines that arent interesting. Yeah, I think a low rating falls more on the rest of the show versus a Kenny promo that wasn't pushed very hard to begin with. It will be interesting to see how their first Thursday number does though with Omega wrestling there for the first time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2021 10:41:56 GMT -5
I think when we see Christian in a match will help ratings. I think the bad ending of the explosion, had an effect on viewers. The shows have been good and solid in quality. People need to realize that Wrestling isn't HOT like it once was. WWE has struggled with ratings a lot as well. AEW just needs to keep putting on good shows and build good storylines. The question I have is Kenny Omega as champion. Impact ratings has fallen when he last appeared. I feel like Omega is only popular with internet fans who follow Dave Meltzer, who are gonna be watching AEW anyway. And I'm not knocking that, people are allowed to enjoy whoever they like. But, anecdotally, everyone outside of that bubble I know that has seen Kenny Omega just do not buy him as a top star. I personally don't see him as someone who is going to attract new fans. See, this is where I feel like the disconnect is in terms of how people are measuring AEW's success, and the drawing power of its wrestlers. You're essentially saying that Kenny is popular and a draw to AEW's target fanbase, but that non-fans do not buy him as a star. Which, is a fair opinion. But, I guess, my question is, who are all of these non-fans or "fans outside the bubble" who are going to be flipping through channels on a Wednesday night and be like "yeah, that guy is cool, I'm a wrestling fan now!" instead of just continuing to watch the NBA or Real World, or whatever they normally watch? I mean, Sting was a massive star at the absolute height of wrestling's popularity, and he definitely popped a rating for about two weeks before the lapsed/casual fans remembered that they don't enjoy wrestling enough to commit to watching it live for two hours every week anymore, particularly in this era of streaming and instantly available entertainment. To me, AEW's success and longevity will be measured by the extent to which it appeals to wrestling fans, because wrestling fans are the only ones who still watch live wrestling on a weekly basis. Pandering to the casual fan at the expense of the wrestling fan is exactly what we all, as AEW supporters, should hope against hope that the company never does, because that's when the quality of the program will start to dwindle. To me, we need to be okay with AEW drawing 600K-1.1. million viewers, but putting on quality programming that we, as wrestling fans, enjoy. AEW has already proven itself capable of interweaving more "casual" stuff (like the Shaq match) into the show, but it should never become the focus. Like, I saw so many people clamoring for Brock Lesnar to be the "Hall of Fame level" star revealed at Revolution. Literally, something like that would be the worst possible thing that AEW could do.
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 26, 2021 11:44:46 GMT -5
If I were them, I'd put the title on face that fans can behind. Whether it's putting it on Page or if it's getting it back to Moxley. Personally I'd go with Mox, because he's a guy people recognize and is believable and a great promo. I feel like Omega is only popular with internet fans who follow Dave Meltzer, who are gonna be watching AEW anyway. And I'm not knocking that, people are allowed to enjoy whoever they like. But, anecdotally, everyone outside of that bubble I know that has seen Kenny Omega just do not buy him as a top star. I personally don't see him as someone who is going to attract new fans. Obviously this is my completely non-expert opinion, so I could be wrong. Yeah no all of this is wrong and I mean no offense in saying it. Omega's been a great ratings draw for the company and a ton of people like him as champion. When he first showed up on Impact as Champion they did their highest numbers in years. Hard to Kill was their most purchased PPV in years. One Impact rating being low shouldn't be blamed on Omega. It's really weird, and borderline frustrating, how much people wanna blame "Dude's not being a draw" over the most mundane shit. "Oh well you see this number was low because Shawn Spears was on screen with seven other guys", "Oh well Impact did a low number this week, Omega's clearly not a draw as champion, get the belt off him". Like can we please chill? Lol. Ratings threads have brought out some of the worst in people that way. Someone last week was crying that the women weren't a draw because of the number last week, then we got the breakdown and it showed they were the highest drawing segment of the show and did incredible numbers. The average's can so misleading which is why I keep saying putting so much stock in Nielson numbers isn't healthy. If people don't buy Omega as a top star these days idk what to tell them, dude's consistently one of the best workers out there, has a compelling character, and frankly I don't think has to prove anything to anyone at this point as to why he's a star, and there's no way someone can tell me he hasn't made new wrestling fans or even brought lapsed fans back along with others in AEW doing their thing. By total viewership, the women weren’t the highest drawing segment of the show last week. They were 4th highest of the 8 quarters.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Mar 26, 2021 12:24:14 GMT -5
Yeah no all of this is wrong and I mean no offense in saying it. Omega's been a great ratings draw for the company and a ton of people like him as champion. When he first showed up on Impact as Champion they did their highest numbers in years. Hard to Kill was their most purchased PPV in years. One Impact rating being low shouldn't be blamed on Omega. It's really weird, and borderline frustrating, how much people wanna blame "Dude's not being a draw" over the most mundane shit. "Oh well you see this number was low because Shawn Spears was on screen with seven other guys", "Oh well Impact did a low number this week, Omega's clearly not a draw as champion, get the belt off him". Like can we please chill? Lol. Ratings threads have brought out some of the worst in people that way. Someone last week was crying that the women weren't a draw because of the number last week, then we got the breakdown and it showed they were the highest drawing segment of the show and did incredible numbers. The average's can so misleading which is why I keep saying putting so much stock in Nielson numbers isn't healthy. If people don't buy Omega as a top star these days idk what to tell them, dude's consistently one of the best workers out there, has a compelling character, and frankly I don't think has to prove anything to anyone at this point as to why he's a star, and there's no way someone can tell me he hasn't made new wrestling fans or even brought lapsed fans back along with others in AEW doing their thing. By total viewership, the women weren’t the highest drawing segment of the show last week. They were 4th highest of the 8 quarters. That's true for total viewers. They did much better in terms of 18-49 though and peaked at 450K.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 26, 2021 12:37:51 GMT -5
By total viewership, the women weren’t the highest drawing segment of the show last week. They were 4th highest of the 8 quarters. That's true for total viewers. They did much better in terms of 18-49 though and peaked at 450K. They also saw massive jumps in both total viewership and the demo from the previous quarter. 120k+ and 60k+ gains in those categories is nothing to sneeze at.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 26, 2021 12:44:38 GMT -5
I feel like Omega is only popular with internet fans who follow Dave Meltzer, who are gonna be watching AEW anyway. And I'm not knocking that, people are allowed to enjoy whoever they like. But, anecdotally, everyone outside of that bubble I know that has seen Kenny Omega just do not buy him as a top star. I personally don't see him as someone who is going to attract new fans. See, this is where I feel like the disconnect is in terms of how people are measuring AEW's success, and the drawing power of its wrestlers. You're essentially saying that Kenny is popular and a draw to AEW's target fanbase, but that non-fans do not buy him as a star. Which, is a fair opinion. But, I guess, my question is, who are all of these non-fans or "fans outside the bubble" who are going to be flipping through channels on a Wednesday night and be like "yeah, that guy is cool, I'm a wrestling fan now!" instead of just continuing to watch the NBA or Real World, or whatever they normally watch? I mean, Sting was a massive star at the absolute height of wrestling's popularity, and he definitely popped a rating for about two weeks before the lapsed/casual fans remembered that they don't enjoy wrestling enough to commit to watching it live for two hours every week anymore, particularly in this era of streaming and instantly available entertainment. To me, AEW's success and longevity will be measured by the extent to which it appeals to wrestling fans, because wrestling fans are the only ones who still watch live wrestling on a weekly basis. Pandering to the casual fan at the expense of the wrestling fan is exactly what we all, as AEW supporters, should hope against hope that the company never does, because that's when the quality of the program will start to dwindle. To me, we need to be okay with AEW drawing 600K-1.1. million viewers, but putting on quality programming that we, as wrestling fans, enjoy. AEW has already proven itself capable of interweaving more "casual" stuff (like the Shaq match) into the show, but it should never become the focus. Like, I saw so many people clamoring for Brock Lesnar to be the "Hall of Fame level" star revealed at Revolution. Literally, something like that would be the worst possible thing that AEW could do. This is basically what TNA tried to do with all its grabs at mainstream attention and also pushing everyone who had a cup of coffee with WWE and WCW at the expense of talent that brought people to TNA to begin with. And not only did it backfire in not getting this holy grail of casual viewers, but it also alienated the core fanbase and it took years to recover from that damage. Kenny Omega is the AJ Styles of AEW in that respect. He was arguably the most popular wrestler in the world outside of the WWE bubble at the time he joined up with rest of his Elite buddies and Tony Khan in creating AEW. For people to act like he's someone who is just not appealing to fans, but actively driving them away is... well, it's hilariously wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2021 13:03:04 GMT -5
See, this is where I feel like the disconnect is in terms of how people are measuring AEW's success, and the drawing power of its wrestlers. You're essentially saying that Kenny is popular and a draw to AEW's target fanbase, but that non-fans do not buy him as a star. Which, is a fair opinion. But, I guess, my question is, who are all of these non-fans or "fans outside the bubble" who are going to be flipping through channels on a Wednesday night and be like "yeah, that guy is cool, I'm a wrestling fan now!" instead of just continuing to watch the NBA or Real World, or whatever they normally watch? I mean, Sting was a massive star at the absolute height of wrestling's popularity, and he definitely popped a rating for about two weeks before the lapsed/casual fans remembered that they don't enjoy wrestling enough to commit to watching it live for two hours every week anymore, particularly in this era of streaming and instantly available entertainment. To me, AEW's success and longevity will be measured by the extent to which it appeals to wrestling fans, because wrestling fans are the only ones who still watch live wrestling on a weekly basis. Pandering to the casual fan at the expense of the wrestling fan is exactly what we all, as AEW supporters, should hope against hope that the company never does, because that's when the quality of the program will start to dwindle. To me, we need to be okay with AEW drawing 600K-1.1. million viewers, but putting on quality programming that we, as wrestling fans, enjoy. AEW has already proven itself capable of interweaving more "casual" stuff (like the Shaq match) into the show, but it should never become the focus. Like, I saw so many people clamoring for Brock Lesnar to be the "Hall of Fame level" star revealed at Revolution. Literally, something like that would be the worst possible thing that AEW could do. This is basically what TNA tried to do with all its grabs at mainstream attention and also pushing everyone who had a cup of coffee with WWE and WCW at the expense of talent that brought people to TNA to begin with. And not only did it backfire in not getting this holy grail of casual viewers, but it also alienated the core fanbase and it took years to recover from that damage. Kenny Omega is the AJ Styles of AEW in that respect. He was arguably the most popular wrestler in the world outside of the WWE bubble at the time he joined up with rest of his Elite buddies and Tony Khan in creating AEW. For people to act like he's someone who is just not appealing to fans, but actively driving them away is... well, it's hilariously wrong.
100% agree. That's what I was alluding to with the Brock Lesnar comment. Yeah, AEW bringing in Lesnar would make a splash, and would probably even push the ratings needle initially. But, whatever "casual" fans it attracts would eventually stop watching on a week-to-week basis (the very definition of what it means to be a "casual fan") and AEW's own diehard fanbase would be alienated by Brock inevitably doing his schtick of showing up and putting in half effort for a huge paycheck every 6 weeks or so, but still being the highest paid guy on the roster. You end up losing the casual fans and your core fanbase. I'm as big an AEW stan as there is, but like I've said in other threads I would have to take a good, hard, look at whether I'd want to continue watching if Bork shows up, rather than just resubbing to New Japan World. And I know I'm far from the only one. I am always loath to talk "AEW v. WWE," because I tend to think it's a false narrative and there's more than enough room for both companies, but AEW is not WWE and shouldn't try to be. WWE is the publicly traded, pseudo-mainstream, "entertainment" company that thrives on larger than life personalities and crossover appeal. AEW is a wrestling company that thrives on producing enjoyable wrestling content for wrestling fans. And, there are more than enough wrestling fans to make AEW an extremely strong and highly regarded property on TNT for years and years to come. AEW has been doing an excellent job with the cross promotion with NBA on TNT, Rooster Teeth, etc...But that stuff should NEVER be the focus. To your point, it's what made TNA a laughing stock and, quite frankly, it was the death knell of WCW, too.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Mar 26, 2021 13:09:11 GMT -5
I don’t want them trying to chase mainstream acceptance at the expense of their core product, in a quest to get higher ratings. I don’t mind the celebrity involvement and hiring big name stars that can still go, but if TNA has shown in the past, that line of thinking could cripple a company. They are doing very well for their night, they are constantly in the top 10, their network loves them. The product for the most part it critically acclaimed. They are doing great PPV numbers for a company that’s two years old. They are doing better than most people ever would have dreamed of when they started.
All they need to do is keep providing a great product. If the casuals don’t come at this moment, then okay. AEW will survive. It’s still a very young company that has a lot going for it.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 26, 2021 21:15:30 GMT -5
I don’t want them trying to chase mainstream acceptance at the expense of their core product, in a quest to get higher ratings. I don’t mind the celebrity involvement and hiring big name stars that can still go, but if TNA has shown in the past, that line of thinking could cripple a company. They are doing very well for their night, they are constantly in the top 10, their network loves them. The product for the most part it critically acclaimed. They are doing great PPV numbers for a company that’s two years old. They are doing better than most people ever would have dreamed of when they started. All they need to do is keep providing a great product. If the casuals don’t come at this moment, then okay. AEW will survive. It’s still a very young company that has a lot going for it. AEW needs these shows. They need to develop their young stars and their product. Guys like Varsity Blondes and Dante Martin need reps, and they need to be shown to the mainstream audience for when they get that big win or take that next step, just like how Darby and Tay climbed the ranks. They're doing more promos which set up more things, they're still putting on great matches, moreover they're keeping most of their viewers and even gaining them back as the show goes on. Popping ratings is good, having the occassional celebrity and some really good vets to not only be around the on screen product but help a lot backstage like Sting, Show, and Christian are doing is very good. But AEW's proven to have a great consistent audience, and that's WITH competition. In a few weeks, it's going to have much less, and I'm very curious to how things look then.
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Post by toodarkmark on Mar 26, 2021 21:49:45 GMT -5
I dont know who needs to hear this, but when a show is #6 in the main demo, and #4 in the male 18-49 demo, out of 200 shows, they draw a lot of casuals. #132 is not drawing casuals, #6 is.
Being #1 is not the goal. Keeping fans happy is.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on Mar 27, 2021 15:14:36 GMT -5
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 27, 2021 16:41:16 GMT -5
I don’t want them trying to chase mainstream acceptance at the expense of their core product, in a quest to get higher ratings. I don’t mind the celebrity involvement and hiring big name stars that can still go, but if TNA has shown in the past, that line of thinking could cripple a company. They are doing very well for their night, they are constantly in the top 10, their network loves them. The product for the most part it critically acclaimed. They are doing great PPV numbers for a company that’s two years old. They are doing better than most people ever would have dreamed of when they started. All they need to do is keep providing a great product. If the casuals don’t come at this moment, then okay. AEW will survive. It’s still a very young company that has a lot going for it. The 'company that's two years old' bit is important. They've had television for a year and a half, and in that time they have settled into a very stable and comfortable ratings spot that their network likes. From here, they can build and develop their pop culture footprint, but it's to get the 'casual fans' when you have minimal mainstream consciousness. For reasons talked about in other threads in the past week, just being on TV doesn't make everyone aware of you and get everybody talking. It's a steady climb, and the more attention they get by growing and establishing themselves, the more that they can develop something that gets people curious. It needs to come gradually.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 27, 2021 18:58:04 GMT -5
This is exactly what people were saying in this thread as well. Why would AEW worry about a 750k average live viewership when they get 200k plus in the three day window and usually get over a million total viewers? Really the shows been doing great especially when you consider it's only year two
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Post by 3cheers4ramirez on Mar 27, 2021 21:53:58 GMT -5
Two years is a decent length of time for a TV show. Most aren't going to take 5-10 years to explode in popularity, or even get that long to try. It's highly likely that if you're a person who'd be open to watching a two hour wrestling show every week, you've heard and/or seen AEW by now.
All of this comes down to what you're hopes are for AEW. If it's to exist on TV and be a show people really enjoy, they're doing that already. Personally I think that should be enough.
If it's to be the biggest wrestling company in the world, usurp WWE and bring back all of the millions of fans that have stopped watching... I think that becomes less and less likely the more years they're on TV.
It'll be interesting to see how they do unopposed.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 27, 2021 23:23:15 GMT -5
I want a viable alternative major American product that challenges WWE's unchecked monopoly and I'm getting that with AEW. As long as it continues to prosper, that's all I want. The more successful promotions besides WWE, the better it is for the wrestlers and the industry as a whole.
I don't think any company will truly "usurp" WWE. But then, I've long held the belief that the only thing that can kill WWE is WWE.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Mar 28, 2021 2:43:48 GMT -5
Two years is a decent length of time for a TV show. Most aren't going to take 5-10 years to explode in popularity, or even get that long to try. It's highly likely that if you're a person who'd be open to watching a two hour wrestling show every week, you've heard and/or seen AEW by now. All of this comes down to what you're hopes are for AEW. If it's to exist on TV and be a show people really enjoy, they're doing that already. Personally I think that should be enough. If it's to be the biggest wrestling company in the world, usurp WWE and bring back all of the millions of fans that have stopped watching... I think that becomes less and less likely the more years they're on TV. It'll be interesting to see how they do unopposed. But that in turn depends on what sort of viewer we're even talking about here. Someone who into wrestling and is open to following a non-WWE product? Yeah, they know AEW, they've likely checked it out already. But the 'casual' fan? The person who doesn't know there are different kinds of pro wrestling, or who assumes anything not WWE is just doing WWE but less good? There's a difference between 'is aware of a show' and 'is willing to watch a show'. Momentum and establishment within culture is a very different thing. Pro wrestling isn't really like a normal prime time TV drama, and any wrestling promotion in the history of ever has had to build their way to up to where they got, including every successful televised wrestling promotion on US TV. The ones that came out of the gate hot did so with the banked good will and presence of years before. AEW doesn't have that. They're building up an entirely new identity with a roster primarily of people who haven't been major television fixtures.
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Post by 3cheers4ramirez on Mar 28, 2021 4:21:38 GMT -5
Two years is a decent length of time for a TV show. Most aren't going to take 5-10 years to explode in popularity, or even get that long to try. It's highly likely that if you're a person who'd be open to watching a two hour wrestling show every week, you've heard and/or seen AEW by now. All of this comes down to what you're hopes are for AEW. If it's to exist on TV and be a show people really enjoy, they're doing that already. Personally I think that should be enough. If it's to be the biggest wrestling company in the world, usurp WWE and bring back all of the millions of fans that have stopped watching... I think that becomes less and less likely the more years they're on TV. It'll be interesting to see how they do unopposed. But that in turn depends on what sort of viewer we're even talking about here. Someone who into wrestling and is open to following a non-WWE product? Yeah, they know AEW, they've likely checked it out already. But the 'casual' fan? The person who doesn't know there are different kinds of pro wrestling, or who assumes anything not WWE is just doing WWE but less good? There's a difference between 'is aware of a show' and 'is willing to watch a show'. Momentum and establishment within culture is a very different thing. Pro wrestling isn't really like a normal prime time TV drama, and any wrestling promotion in the history of ever has had to build their way to up to where they got, including every successful televised wrestling promotion on US TV. The ones that came out of the gate hot did so with the banked good will and presence of years before. AEW doesn't have that. They're building up an entirely new identity with a roster primarily of people who haven't been major television fixtures. The last successful promotion to grow to a scale larger than AEW was 25 years ago. Not only has everything about how (and how many) people watch TV changed, but also that 25 years has happened. Wrestling exploded on a scale never seen before, and the WWE became a giant global corporation. Unlike the early 90s, everyone knows what weekly wrestling on a large scale looks like, there have been decades of storylines done and the awareness of wrestling as a whole has never been higher. While there may be scope for a new take on pro wrestling to make a splash and attract eye balls from people who would never normally consider watching wrestling - AEW isn't that. It's pro wrestling as everyone knows it done slightly better than the WWE currently, but ultimately nothing that hasn't been seen or done better before. It's not just being present that will cause a large uptick in viewership. WCW could've started two weeks before Nitro launched - and still got to where it got signing the biggest names in the industry and being something people hadn't seen before. The chances of AEW doing the same likely fall, not rise, every year they're on TV.
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