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Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Mar 27, 2021 15:55:41 GMT -5
Not to mention... I'm a giant completionist. I have terabytes on terabytes of downloaded shows, redubs, live tapes, raw files, etc... but for wrestling fans to say "I want the racism back in the shows! How dare Peacock censor blackface and a white dude(who just so happens to be running the show, so who is gonna tell him this is a dumb idea) using the n-word!", probably wouldn't be a great look. And those fans are basically gaslighted by the companies who gave everyone those offensive things, but now in a vain attempt to prove that they're better companies now, they erase the past just like everyone supposed to be fooled that it never happened. Seriously, why not a disclaimer? Why not parental/content controls? Instead they blame others for being too forgiving of offensive stuff THAT THEY DID! I'm a big believer in putting a disclaimer up.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Mar 27, 2021 15:59:19 GMT -5
I'm not losing any sleep over what they've removed so far. I'm just worried about line they'll draw.
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Post by SirLucas on Mar 27, 2021 16:40:08 GMT -5
Bubba Ray's Heatwave 99 promo is still on the Network uncensored.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2021 22:07:51 GMT -5
So... not only is the content getting cut, but alternate means of watching the show are going to get the same treatment.
It's a thorny issue; I know there will be those arguing that preserving some of this will be that wrestling fans want to enjoy subhuman filth, yet I think the more sensible solution is to just, I dunno... put a content disclaimer before anything? Tell people that what they may watch is probably going to feature content unwholesome or unbecoming from the past, so if they complain So-and-So did this 20-25 years ago, at least you'll have a safeguard of sorts.
This is why I don't like streaming services, and I really have regretted spending $10 on Peacock. You're beholden to what the group does, and given that some shows (not just WWE) either have print media that's either hard to get or never was printed in the first place, it's frustrating.
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 27, 2021 22:15:40 GMT -5
So... not only is the content getting cut, but alternate means of watching the show are going to get the same treatment. It's a thorny issue; I know there will be those arguing that preserving some of this will be that wrestling fans want to enjoy subhuman filth, yet I think the more sensible solution is to just, I dunno... put a content disclaimer before anything? Tell people that what they may watch is probably going to feature content unwholesome or unbecoming from the past, so if they complain So-and-So did this 20-25 years ago, at least you'll have a safeguard of sorts. This is why I don't like streaming services, and I really have regretted spending $10 on Peacock. You're beholden to what the group does, and given that some shows (not just WWE) either have print media that's either hard to get or never was printed in the first place, it's frustrating. They’ve barely removed anything. Certainly not enough yet to significantly damage enjoyment of the product they’re offering.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2021 22:32:26 GMT -5
So... not only is the content getting cut, but alternate means of watching the show are going to get the same treatment. It's a thorny issue; I know there will be those arguing that preserving some of this will be that wrestling fans want to enjoy subhuman filth, yet I think the more sensible solution is to just, I dunno... put a content disclaimer before anything? Tell people that what they may watch is probably going to feature content unwholesome or unbecoming from the past, so if they complain So-and-So did this 20-25 years ago, at least you'll have a safeguard of sorts. This is why I don't like streaming services, and I really have regretted spending $10 on Peacock. You're beholden to what the group does, and given that some shows (not just WWE) either have print media that's either hard to get or never was printed in the first place, it's frustrating. They’ve barely removed anything. Certainly not enough yet to significantly damage enjoyment of the product they’re offering. Not yet, but we don't know what they will find "acceptable" or "unacceptable" given how limited the selection is on Peacock is at the moment.
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 27, 2021 22:41:10 GMT -5
They’ve barely removed anything. Certainly not enough yet to significantly damage enjoyment of the product they’re offering. Not yet, but we don't know what they will find "acceptable" or "unacceptable" given how limited the selection is on Peacock is at the moment. Why get up in arms about something that may not happen (not speaking about just you specifically)? If it’s just a few racist things like Piper-Brown, Vince saying a terrible word, and the blackface Nation skit, no one’s going to be missing that stuff.
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Post by The Barber on Mar 28, 2021 3:53:05 GMT -5
Not yet, but we don't know what they will find "acceptable" or "unacceptable" given how limited the selection is on Peacock is at the moment. Why get up in arms about something that may not happen (not speaking about just you specifically)? If it’s just a few racist things like Piper-Brown, Vince saying a terrible word, and the blackface Nation skit, no one’s going to be missing that stuff. It sets a bad precedent.
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Post by The Barber on Mar 28, 2021 3:54:08 GMT -5
Let's not copy the Snyder Cut people. They were hassling critics, stars, directors, and people who answer the phones at Warner Brothers. but for wrestling fans to say "I want the racism back in the shows! How dare Peacock censor blackface and a white dude(who just so happens to be running the show, so who is gonna tell him this is a dumb idea) using the n-word!", probably wouldn't be a great look. It might not be a great look, but the way NBC is handling it might be even worse.
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 28, 2021 6:22:39 GMT -5
but for wrestling fans to say "I want the racism back in the shows! How dare Peacock censor blackface and a white dude(who just so happens to be running the show, so who is gonna tell him this is a dumb idea) using the n-word!", probably wouldn't be a great look. It might not be a great look, but the way NBC is handling it might be even worse. Removing some offensive segments “might be even worse” than the actual offensive segments? Lol come on.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,535
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Post by cjh on Mar 28, 2021 6:43:00 GMT -5
Why get up in arms about something that may not happen (not speaking about just you specifically)? If it’s just a few racist things like Piper-Brown, Vince saying a terrible word, and the blackface Nation skit, no one’s going to be missing that stuff. It sets a bad precedent. Also, it seems like a bad idea because in an effort to not drive away possible future customers, they have upset actual customers they already had, some of whom will now be former customers.
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Post by Terry McConkey on Mar 28, 2021 8:59:58 GMT -5
THIS is why I won't even bother spending a dime on WWE Network or WWE-anything. They edit and censor everything and it's just not the same.
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Post by eJm on Mar 28, 2021 9:12:51 GMT -5
Some of you are, honestly, both right and wrong.
Here's the thing; NBC paid WWE for the rights to use the footage as they wish and if, like other stuff they have, want to chop and change it or even remove stuff, that's their right. Also added to the fact that a lot of the stuff so far and in the future (they still have 14,000 hours of footage which, unless they hire more people for the process, can't possibly be done for SummerSlam) is stuff that was unacceptable at the time and unacceptable now.
Also; pretty much is one of the reasons I can't see NBC Universal acquiring WWE at all. If they're going to be picky about this stuff, wait until the moment they've announced they've acquired them and watch the stampede break down the doors at Rockafeller Centre. 2020 alone has enough cases of stuff that would put the company under hot fire on a bigger stage, never mind any other year.
BUT
They did also advertise that the whole network would be on Peacock by Summerslam. The fact it'll be cut is false advertising and it'd have been much better if they just admitted that upfront rather than tried to act like it wasn't. I'd also want to know as a consumer (not that I'd subscribe to the Network again in my life for other reasons) what the difference would be in cost for them for doing a disclaimer instead of all this because, well, at least it would explain the logic. Like, would a few people who likely don't exist tweeting about something that'd be forgotten in a week be that much of a headache compared to having people scower through all the footage where, honestly, the worst is yet to come with it?
Like I said, the biggest thing to come from this is that the entire thing's been really poorly thought out and rushed for a profit that may or may not be worth it depending.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2021 16:23:49 GMT -5
Some of you are, honestly, both right and wrong. Here's the thing; NBC paid WWE for the rights to use the footage as they wish and if, like other stuff they have, want to chop and change it or even remove stuff, that's their right. Also added to the fact that a lot of the stuff so far and in the future (they still have 14,000 hours of footage which, unless they hire more people for the process, can't possibly be done for SummerSlam) is stuff that was unacceptable at the time and unacceptable now. Also; pretty much is one of the reasons I can't see NBC Universal acquiring WWE at all. If they're going to be picky about this stuff, wait until the moment they've announced they've acquired them and watch the stampede break down the doors at Rockafeller Centre. 2020 alone has enough cases of stuff that would put the company under hot fire on a bigger stage, never mind any other year. BUT They did also advertise that the whole network would be on Peacock by Summerslam. The fact it'll be cut is false advertising and it'd have been much better if they just admitted that upfront rather than tried to act like it wasn't. I'd also want to know as a consumer (not that I'd subscribe to the Network again in my life for other reasons) what the difference would be in cost for them for doing a disclaimer instead of all this because, well, at least it would explain the logic. Like, would a few people who likely don't exist tweeting about something that'd be forgotten in a week be that much of a headache compared to having people scower through all the footage where, honestly, the worst is yet to come with it? Like I said, the biggest thing to come from this is that the entire thing's been really poorly thought out and rushed for a profit that may or may not be worth it depending. It is within NBCUniversal's right to change what's on the library as they see fit. It's on their service, so whatever they feel doesn't work for them, they can remove. However, that's the main problem I have with all of this, and it's twofold. The first is what will their definition be of "unacceptable". Most of us are able to discern what is inappropriate, outrageous, and downright insensitive, and this isn't me defending the garbage this company, which has pissed me off countless times, has done. After all, the WWE has a history of racism, sexism, misogynism, homophobia, ableism, and other moments that have not aged well at all. If we got rid of some of the more blatant moments, I don't personally see the problem with that, yet there have actually been some downright cringeworthy things lost to time. The same year DX did blackface with "The Nation" parody, Triple H would don "The Crock" getup again to mock the new Corporation, complete with Jason Sensation doing homophobic shtick as "H.B. Gay", to name one example. The issue is, at what point do the people in charge draw the line between what's acceptable and not? There are things they have done that a few of us frown at, but we just grin and bear it, but have also people defending it. And then there's the chance there may be something that one executive likely just doesn't like, and he or she has the power to get rid of it. I know it's the damn "slippery slope" argument, but it should at least be open at some point what is okay for broadcasting. It also likely will only affect the main WWE library, and not necessarily the other assets owned by WWE, such as WCW, ECW, Evolve, the British promotions (ICW & Progress), World Class, and so on. Sure, we all know and accept ECW was a place where swear words and innuendo flowed freely like blood, but Vince Russo's run as booker in WCW featured very inappropriate content as the man kept bitching about "standards and practices" holding him down, so will you go through that? The second problem is that it's false advertising, like you said. Reviewing an entire library will take time, and likely means it won't be available by SummerSlam. Not to mention, if parts of said library are cut, then some subscribers will feel they aren't getting an authentic experience. If they're going to go through all this trouble of examining every piece of footage to see what is not okay, wouldn't it be easier to just put a content or context warning? Or encourage parental filters? I haven't been happy about this Peacock move, and I don't exactly have much confidence going forward.
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Post by eJm on Mar 28, 2021 16:45:40 GMT -5
Some of you are, honestly, both right and wrong. Here's the thing; NBC paid WWE for the rights to use the footage as they wish and if, like other stuff they have, want to chop and change it or even remove stuff, that's their right. Also added to the fact that a lot of the stuff so far and in the future (they still have 14,000 hours of footage which, unless they hire more people for the process, can't possibly be done for SummerSlam) is stuff that was unacceptable at the time and unacceptable now. Also; pretty much is one of the reasons I can't see NBC Universal acquiring WWE at all. If they're going to be picky about this stuff, wait until the moment they've announced they've acquired them and watch the stampede break down the doors at Rockafeller Centre. 2020 alone has enough cases of stuff that would put the company under hot fire on a bigger stage, never mind any other year. BUT They did also advertise that the whole network would be on Peacock by Summerslam. The fact it'll be cut is false advertising and it'd have been much better if they just admitted that upfront rather than tried to act like it wasn't. I'd also want to know as a consumer (not that I'd subscribe to the Network again in my life for other reasons) what the difference would be in cost for them for doing a disclaimer instead of all this because, well, at least it would explain the logic. Like, would a few people who likely don't exist tweeting about something that'd be forgotten in a week be that much of a headache compared to having people scower through all the footage where, honestly, the worst is yet to come with it? Like I said, the biggest thing to come from this is that the entire thing's been really poorly thought out and rushed for a profit that may or may not be worth it depending. It is within NBCUniversal's right to change what's on the library as they see fit. It's on their service, so whatever they feel doesn't work for them, they can remove. However, that's the main problem I have with all of this, and it's twofold. The first is what will their definition be of "unacceptable". Most of us are able to discern what is inappropriate, outrageous, and downright insensitive, and this isn't me defending the garbage this company, which has pissed me off countless times, has done. After all, the WWE has a history of racism, sexism, misogynism, homophobia, ableism, and other moments that have not aged well at all. If we got rid of some of the more blatant moments, I don't personally see the problem with that, yet there have actually been some downright cringeworthy things lost to time. The same year DX did blackface with "The Nation" parody, Triple H would don "The Crock" getup again to mock the new Corporation, complete with Jason Sensation doing homophobic shtick as "H.B. Gay", to name one example. The issue is, at what point do the people in charge draw the line between what's acceptable and not? There are things they have done that a few of us frown at, but we just grin and bear it, but have also people defending it. And then there's the chance there may be something that one executive likely just doesn't like, and he or she has the power to get rid of it. I know it's the damn "slippery slope" argument, but it should at least be open at some point what is okay for broadcasting. It also likely will only affect the main WWE library, and not necessarily the other assets owned by WWE, such as WCW, ECW, Evolve, the British promotions (ICW & Progress), World Class, and so on. Sure, we all know and accept ECW was a place where swear words and innuendo flowed freely like blood, but Vince Russo's run as booker in WCW featured very inappropriate content as the man kept bitching about "standards and practices" holding him down, so will you go through that? The second problem is that it's false advertising, like you said. Reviewing an entire library will take time, and likely means it won't be available by SummerSlam. Not to mention, if parts of said library are cut, then some subscribers will feel they aren't getting an authentic experience. If they're going to go through all this trouble of examining every piece of footage to see what is not okay, wouldn't it be easier to just put a content or context warning? Or encourage parental filters? I haven't been happy about this Peacock move, and I don't exactly have much confidence going forward. Kind of glad you did bring up PROGRESS and ICW because those feel like potential minefields considering a) WWE hasn’t put up many shows from there despite having the rights to both archives and b) when they do, the issue is less about content and more about whose involved? Considering the first few years of both companies involved people like Travis Banks, El Ligero, Jimmy Havoc, Jack Gallagher, Paul Robinson, David Starr, Bram, Mikey Whiplash and others, do you just not update that archive? Do they just do what they’re doing with WXW and putting up “Matches from (insert guy here)” and hope to call it a day? Because that seems like a waste of having the PROGRESS and ICW shows. It’s just a case of, like you said, how far reaching will this go? Because if they do just go through the WWF/E archive, what happens if someone finds Oklahoma or the Miss Hancock fake pregnancy angle from WCW or all the times Fritz Von Erich exploited his sons in WCCW or the crucifixion from ECW? Like, are they willing to run this risk of some goober crying foul about it and causing an overblown Twitter stink? It’s less about the content at this point to me and more “Why are you putting in so much work for this?”
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y4j1981
Dennis Stamp
Rowsdower
Posts: 4,627
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Post by y4j1981 on Mar 28, 2021 19:09:59 GMT -5
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,535
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Post by cjh on Mar 28, 2021 19:33:10 GMT -5
The content that was removed didn't violate WWE's January/February 2021 standards, just their March 2021 standards.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Mar 28, 2021 20:23:34 GMT -5
That ECW library is totally going to be different.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Mar 29, 2021 0:12:36 GMT -5
I'm failing to understand why content is being removed from the standard, non-US Network that Peacock has zero rights to. Is it for the sake of consistency across the board? Otherwise, I'm failing to see why this is all of a sudden a problem when this content was available unedited for years. It's not even the fact that I'd miss certain content - a lot of stuff from the Attitude era has aged very poorly - but you're setting a dangerous precedent for censorship. A simple disclaimer stating that the content of each program is reflective of the time and circumstances it was produced under and does not reflect their modern corporate views would be more than sufficient. But no, hacking footage to pieces and pretending the bad stuff never happened will surely teach future generations why certain behaviors and ideologies are unacceptable. But circling back, I literally don't understand how Peacock having the rights to the service in ONE country sets the same changes in motion for the world at large. We're not getting the full story here and something feels really fishy about this whole thing. That ECW library is totally going to be different. What ECW library?
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67 more
King Koopa
He's just a Sexy Kurt
Posts: 11,473
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Post by 67 more on Mar 29, 2021 2:47:03 GMT -5
I'm failing to understand why content is being removed from the standard, non-US Network that Peacock has zero rights to. Is it for the sake of consistency across the board? Otherwise, I'm failing to see why this is all of a sudden a problem when this content was available unedited for years. It's not even the fact that I'd miss certain content - a lot of stuff from the Attitude era has aged very poorly - but you're setting a dangerous precedent for censorship. A simple disclaimer stating that the content of each program is reflective of the time and circumstances it was produced under and does not reflect their modern corporate views would be more than sufficient. But no, hacking footage to pieces and pretending the bad stuff never happened will surely teach future generations why certain behaviors and ideologies are unacceptable. But circling back, I literally don't understand how Peacock having the rights to the service in ONE country sets the same changes in motion for the world at large. We're not getting the full story here and something feels really fishy about this whole thing. That ECW library is totally going to be different. What ECW library? I feel like WWE's logic is "don't complain about Peacock editing as it's now like this on the regular Network, too!"
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