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Post by moxfan1 on Apr 1, 2021 22:05:41 GMT -5
A thought did occur to me during last nights Dynamite as to basically “..who are we supposed to be getting behind?” I mean that in macro-terms as to “who’s the lead protagonist right now?” Because it shouldn’t be Mox. It feels like it sort of still is. But that doesn’t work considering everything. The impression I got from the first couple post-Revolution shows was that Christian was being positioned as the next big challenger for the title. The latest Dynamites have shied away from more interaction between him and Omega, but they haven't really pushed any alternatives either. I don't think it was meant to mean he's going to be next challenger. It was more debut him in a big spot like going after champion on his first night. While maybe teasing something for down the road. He made it clear on the next week that being champion is his goal. But he knows he's got to prove himself and build up W/L record first. AEW has long term out look with their booking. That can be bit complexed. So this was used as a tease potentially for future match(title or non title). It's not like WWE when two guys almost get physical and it means they will he feuding the next week.
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Post by moxfan1 on Apr 1, 2021 22:08:24 GMT -5
Adam Page is number 1 in rankings. That should be a hint of where things are going. You gotta have a definitive blowoff with Hangman/Dark Order and HFO though first imo. Unless you have someone like John Silver helm the feud going forward, there's potential to shift some things around but it felt like Dark Order HFO was heading towards a stadium stampede type of match Hardy feuding with Darby now and Dark Order. With Page is hanging out with Dark Order. I don't think Page will be involved anymore with Hardy. The feud is over with and Page won. It's gonna be Pinnacle vs Inner Circle if they do team vs team thing like that.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 1, 2021 22:13:38 GMT -5
You gotta have a definitive blowoff with Hangman/Dark Order and HFO though first imo. Unless you have someone like John Silver helm the feud going forward, there's potential to shift some things around but it felt like Dark Order HFO was heading towards a stadium stampede type of match Hardy feuding with Darby now and Dark Order. With Page is hanging out with Dark Order. I don't think Page will be involved anymore with Hardy. The feud is over with and Page won. It's gonna be Pinnacle vs Inner Circle if they do team vs team thing like that. Pinnacle/Inner Circle is gonna probably be Blood and Guts, unless they see Stadium Stampede as their match, then maybe that'll be Cody's fractured family. Darby could be dealing with Dark Order and HFO, which could lead to Darby helping them with HFO while Hangman goes after Omega, all possibilities. Who knows, they might just be waiting until NXT moves to do all this. Not structuring your shows around competition will probably be a dream.
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Post by moxfan1 on Apr 1, 2021 22:19:13 GMT -5
More and more I'm thinking this is on Kenny. It'd probably help if he had some kind of direction right now beyond just, "Whine at the Bucks and have a match that he's obviously going to win," but as it is everything with him just feels like a giant waste of time. Also while I love the guy I think you can pretty definitively call the Christian signing a total bust. It's way way way way way way way way way way and I mean way to soon. To even consider Christian signing will be a bust. First of all he opened the show which odds are he didn't do a bad rating. But we all gotta remember this was Christian first match in 7 years. He was basically off tv for seven years. A lot of people watching today probably have never seen him or don't remember how good he is. He's not legend like Sting with name and status that creates a buzz. And he's not Jericho or Moxley who were hot coming off WWE tv in past year or two. Heck even Matt Hardy had some big Raw moments on tv a month or so before he joined AEW. It's going to take some time to build up Christian and show off his talents. So at least give him few months and his first feud. Remember Edge did nothing for Raw ratings last year either for the same reason.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 1, 2021 22:22:57 GMT -5
You could argue that the expectations have been tailored to special shows, but it doesn't hurt to show people as they have the last three weeks that AEW is worth tuning in for weekly, so you see these things happen live Good news is a lot of fans are still tuning in within the 3 day period after the fact to get the viewership over a million anyway. But in the end what's really going to be interesting is seeing how AEW and NXT for that matter do on seperate days. AEW especially not only losing NXT but The Challenge in the same week, which is the top demo getter of Wednesday. Networks don’t care as much about the DVR viewership as those viewers are less valuable to advertisers since the assumption is most fast forward commercials. While that's true we also have to bring up that while the all around number might be lower than usual, AEW still is a top 10 demo every week show, the 3 day viewership just shows the audience is still interested, the core fanbase they have is usually 700k who always watch live which is a really good thing. Idk, last week people freaked out, but then it showed the show started and ended with 800K which I consider the win, not the average. I want to see where AEW got their viewership and where they lost it/gained it. Obviously NXT heading towards their biggest show of the year is making a difference since AEW's not heading towards a huge event they're building things up and in some cases closing things out to start new things, so to me the viewership also makes sense, I feel it was similar last year, maybe not the exact same but I feel like the pattern was similar.
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Post by moxfan1 on Apr 1, 2021 22:26:29 GMT -5
Hardy feuding with Darby now and Dark Order. With Page is hanging out with Dark Order. I don't think Page will be involved anymore with Hardy. The feud is over with and Page won. It's gonna be Pinnacle vs Inner Circle if they do team vs team thing like that. Pinnacle/Inner Circle is gonna probably be Blood and Guts, unless they see Stadium Stampede as their match, then maybe that'll be Cody's fractured family. Darby could be dealing with Dark Order and HFO, which could lead to Darby helping them with HFO while Hangman goes after Omega, all possibilities. Who knows, they might just be waiting until NXT moves to do all this. Not structuring your shows around competition will probably be a dream. Yeah they just need to get into hot title feud soon. Since history shows when title picture isn't hot. The ratings always seem to drop. Having Callis&Good Brothers around is cool. But this relationship is doing nothing to make AEW product any hotter. If they wanted Good Brothers around they should have signed them back in July.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 1, 2021 22:43:17 GMT -5
Pinnacle/Inner Circle is gonna probably be Blood and Guts, unless they see Stadium Stampede as their match, then maybe that'll be Cody's fractured family. Darby could be dealing with Dark Order and HFO, which could lead to Darby helping them with HFO while Hangman goes after Omega, all possibilities. Who knows, they might just be waiting until NXT moves to do all this. Not structuring your shows around competition will probably be a dream. Yeah they just need to get into hot title feud soon. Since history shows when title picture isn't hot. The ratings always seem to drop. Having Callis&Good Brothers around is cool. But this relationship is doing nothing to make AEW product any hotter. If they wanted Good Brothers around they should have signed them back in July. I agree they should do more with Impact if they can, but I also like Callis and Good Brothers being around and I dont think the relationship has to explode the ratings. Callis has been a great promo/mouthpiece and Good Brothers have been putting on good matches, at least to me, I get some people here just don't like Gallows and Anderson. Again maybe they're waiting for the official moves to do this. Consider Impact now being on a Thursday and having immediate fallout with AEW. That could be beneficial if say Swann shows up and attacks Omega. This'll be the month to really build it so it isn't stale or overdone, so it's entirely possible to do it once this week has past.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2021 22:46:02 GMT -5
I just can’t wrap my head around all this doom and gloom with AEW drawing 700,000 live viewers on a Wednesday night, and being a Top 10 show on cable. If that’s a “bad” night, then Dynamite’s not getting canceled any time soon.
That’s all we should want. I don’t get what the expectations are...it’s a wrestling show. It’s never gonna be the number one show. It might beat WWE’s stuff at some point, but WWE has a damn near 40 year head start on it, and has a network TV presence. Certainly, getting higher ratings than RAW and SmackDown shouldn’t be the metric of success for AEW Dynamite within the first 5 years of its existence.
To me, ratings only matter to the extent that they will keep a show that I really enjoy on the air. And right now, that’s exactly where they’re at.
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 1, 2021 22:57:05 GMT -5
I just can’t wrap my head around all this doom and gloom with AEW drawing 700,000 live viewers on a Wednesday night, and being a Top 10 show on cable. If that’s a “bad” night, then Dynamite’s not getting canceled any time soon. That’s all we should want. I don’t get what the expectations are...it’s a wrestling show. It’s never gonna be the number one show. It might beat WWE’s stuff at some point, but WWE has a damn near 40 year head start on it, and has a network TV presence. Certainly, getting higher ratings than RAW and SmackDown shouldn’t be the metric of success for AEW Dynamite within the first 5 years of its existence. To me, ratings only matter to the extent that they will keep a show that I really enjoy on the air. And right now, that’s exactly where they’re at. And AEW has all the makings to turn this around and get plenty of viewership just in the next two weeks alone. The Challenge which is the number one demo getter is ending its season, and NXT's moving to Tuesday which puts 600,000 Average Viewership completely on the table. If AEW gets a quarter of those fans watching regularly with their already core fanbase, this is all a moot point. AEW might never get number one in cable, there's potential for it to happen given they're always top 10, there's potential for them to start trying to get to a million after April 13th, but people forget this is the show TNT thought was going to get 400k viewers, and they would have been happy with that. It has on average doubled their expectation, which has given AEW two more upcoming TV programs, and an immediate extension (Where when that comes up will probably only lead to even more cash for AEW's side). I don't think Tony Khan is sweating the ratings, I doubt TNT is either. If you're supposed to be sweating in the top 10 of cable every week. then idk you're gonna look like Shane McMahon after a light sprint real damn fast... The ratings analysis should be fun, interesting, it shouldn't turn into "Revolution killed the product to fans" or "Kenny Omega as champion isn't working" imo. We are nowhere near that right now, and probably never will be as far as the actual business standpoint is concerned. I think fans have every right to be concerned and criticize the product, but fans tuning out and in every week in flux when AEW's been proven to already have a very strong foothold in TNT's future for years to come and potentially more, I think in the grand scheme will not matter, especially if we see a huge increase in two weeks, it'll all really be moot. But we'll see.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 2, 2021 5:52:53 GMT -5
Just speculating as well, and don't want to derail but I wonder how much is people also just getting out of the house now? Yeah a Wednesday night is a random night to do stuff but you have a lot of places loosening retribution domestically as well as it becoming easier for people in the key demos to get vaccinated (another discussion entirely) combined with nicer weather I wonder if people are just not at home? Thats a whole different cans of worms but I do kind of think that will play a part for a bit too
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Post by markymark on Apr 2, 2021 6:54:20 GMT -5
Wow it seems that the women match was the lowest point of the night, really take the belt off Shida or turn her heel, and have Tay squash Allie.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 2, 2021 7:39:58 GMT -5
The good news is that there was some variation throughout the show. If they just averaged a low rating throughout the night, that would indicate a significant lack of interest. But their normal audience showed up and tuned in for parts of the show. There were just parts where they switched to something else (NXT probably being the key factor but not the only one). Curious if those types of swings continue in two weeks. Either way, I wouldn't overreact necessarily to one week for any particular act. Shida has done well before. People definitely weren't interested in the QT thing this week but hopefully the angle for people curious for next week. And the main acts that were advertised did well. It looks like people were into Io/Raquel and luckily for NXT, they had them in like five segments on the show.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 2, 2021 7:42:13 GMT -5
Wow it seems that the women match was the lowest point of the night, really take the belt off Shida or turn her heel, and have Tay squash Allie. On the girls I'm wondering what the normal ratings are to see if there are any correlation with who does well and who doesn't. I am pretty sure Britt has been a draw since her heel turn but I dunno about the others. As for rest of the ratings sounds like either people left during the opener or during the QT/Cody match and it was a struggle to get them back after. Beat Friends are draws now... or at least OC is. Either way that's great for them since if I remember last summer they were usually a bigger I the ratings
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Post by moxfan1 on Apr 2, 2021 7:59:01 GMT -5
Wow it seems that the women match was the lowest point of the night, really take the belt off Shida or turn her heel, and have Tay squash Allie. On the girls I'm wondering what the normal ratings are to see if there are any correlation with who does well and who doesn't. I am pretty sure Britt has been a draw since her heel turn but I dunno about the others. As for rest of the ratings sounds like either people left during the opener or during the QT/Cody match and it was a struggle to get them back after. Beat Friends are draws now... or at least OC is. Either way that's great for them since if I remember last summer they were usually a bigger I the ratings The only people cared to see was Christian Cage first match. None of these numbers proved anyone is a draw or not a draw. Even main event that had a big increase to 717 was bad low number. If you get that number most weeks it's low number. I actually thought this week show was best show they had in a few week. But for whatever reason people had no interest in the whole show besides Christian match it seemed. Since the show really tanked(lower then normal) after that and some came back for main event but it still didn't do that good of a number. I have no clue what turned away few 100,000 people between 7 and 845. Maybe people are sick of seeing Mox or Cody wrestle nobodies. Inner Circle wasn't announced so Maybe thought it was some silly Pinnacle gift segment and never saw the brawl. Maybe they are sick of Omega/Good Brothers storyline and doing stuff every week. It's easy to see Shida/Tay and Nyla/Allie do poor since they haven't been presented as stars. But even that shouldn't get that low. We haven't seen stuff have these type of huge drops since last summer.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2021 9:04:35 GMT -5
On the girls I'm wondering what the normal ratings are to see if there are any correlation with who does well and who doesn't. I am pretty sure Britt has been a draw since her heel turn but I dunno about the others. As for rest of the ratings sounds like either people left during the opener or during the QT/Cody match and it was a struggle to get them back after. Beat Friends are draws now... or at least OC is. Either way that's great for them since if I remember last summer they were usually a bigger I the ratings The only people cared to see was Christian Cage first match. None of these numbers proved anyone is a draw or not a draw. Even main event that had a big increase to 717 was bad low number. If you get that number most weeks it's low number. I actually thought this week show was best show they had in a few week. But for whatever reason people had no interest in the whole show besides Christian match it seemed. Since the show really tanked(lower then normal) after that and some came back for main event but it still didn't do that good of a number. I have no clue what turned away few 100,000 people between 7 and 845. Maybe people are sick of seeing Mox or Cody wrestle nobodies. Inner Circle wasn't announced so Maybe thought it was some silly Pinnacle gift segment and never saw the brawl. Maybe they are sick of Omega/Good Brothers storyline and doing stuff every week. It's easy to see Shida/Tay and Nyla/Allie do poor since they haven't been presented as stars. But even that shouldn't get that low. We haven't seen stuff have these type of huge drops since last summer. Or, it really, truly could just be that slightly more people than usual didn't want to sit through 2 straight hours of live wrestling, and flipped to other things through the middle of the show. As good (in my opinion) as the QT stuff, the Inner Circle stuff, and even the women's tag match ended up being, that all came across as kind of fillery on paper. Some people flipped over to other stuff, and then flipped back for the main event. People have always kind of watched wrestling that way, I'm not sure you can ascribe it to any one performer, as much as to the timeslot. That's why people always get annoyed on here when the women wrestle in the 930 EST hour...it's the "dead" hour.
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Post by markymark on Apr 2, 2021 9:16:20 GMT -5
Q1: 844K/396K (Kaz vs Christian)
Q2: 745K/375K (End of Kaz/Christian, Jade Cargill, beginning of QT vs Cody)
Q3: 696K/333K (QT vs Cody, Sky & Page promo, Cargill attacking Red Velvet)
Q4: 673K/343K (Moxley promo, Bononi vs Moxley, Team Taz promo, Inner Circle beatdown on Pinnacle)
Q5: 632K/311K (Don Callis confronts Matt Jackson, beginning of Lucha Bros & Laredo Kid vs Good Brothers & Kenny Omega)
Q6: 683K/332K (Lucha Bros & Loredo Kid vs Good Brothers & Kenny Omega, Britt Baker promo)
Q7: 611K/308K (Rose & Bunny vs Conti & Shida)
Q8: 717K/332K (Arcade Anarchy)
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 2, 2021 9:20:22 GMT -5
Yeah, clearly putting the women in Teddy Long Smackdown tag matches ain't it, and the QT angle got negative interest despite his doing well before (possibly he was carried by Dustin in a ratings sense - Dustin is weirdly and enduringly popular).
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Post by markymark on Apr 2, 2021 9:24:06 GMT -5
Yeah, clearly putting the women in Teddy Long Smackdown tag matches ain't it, and the QT angle got negative interest despite his doing well before (possibly he was carried by Dustin in a ratings sense - Dustin is weirdly and enduringly popular). And once again NXT Women division beats AEWs, if we use the data as proof, people care more about Io than Shida.
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 2, 2021 10:04:21 GMT -5
I just can’t wrap my head around all this doom and gloom with AEW drawing 700,000 live viewers on a Wednesday night, and being a Top 10 show on cable. If that’s a “bad” night, then Dynamite’s not getting canceled any time soon. That’s all we should want. I don’t get what the expectations are...it’s a wrestling show. It’s never gonna be the number one show. It might beat WWE’s stuff at some point, but WWE has a damn near 40 year head start on it, and has a network TV presence. Certainly, getting higher ratings than RAW and SmackDown shouldn’t be the metric of success for AEW Dynamite within the first 5 years of its existence. To me, ratings only matter to the extent that they will keep a show that I really enjoy on the air. And right now, that’s exactly where they’re at. No one is saying they’re going out of business or anything. It’s a ratings thread, so obviously people are going to analyze the drops and wonder what is causing that. It’s just part of the fun of discussing the product.
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 2, 2021 10:12:33 GMT -5
Yeah, clearly putting the women in Teddy Long Smackdown tag matches ain't it, and the QT angle got negative interest despite his doing well before (possibly he was carried by Dustin in a ratings sense - Dustin is weirdly and enduringly popular). And once again NXT Women division beats AEWs, if we use the data as proof, people care more about Io than Shida. Honestly, that would probably be the case even if Shida weren't booked as badly as she generally has been, but the booking has done a lot of damage. Like, Nyla has floated in limbo more often than she's been on TV; the Bunny hasn't had a match on Dynamite since a ratings disaster in the summer, and has not been established in any way as a threat before this week; Shida is off TV constantly, and her angles tend to hinge on grin-and-bear-it tropes (like Anna Jay giving a "look how far I've come" speech when she'd had, like, two Dynamite wins and nine matches total since losing to Shida in a squash; Ford pinning Shida in a tag match to get a title challenge - done in desperation or not, it was not good TV; the Abadon angle that had a rough start that seemed to taint the storyline for a number of people; Mizunami debuting on Dynamite in a #1 contender's match; Shida having non-title matches while declaring that she is waiting for a challenger, basically burying her opponents as uncompetitive wrestlers who wouldn't even step up when they had the chance; Shida anticlimactically saying, "Yeah, sure, you just had to ask" to Nyla Rose wanting a title match despite months of not interacting with Nyla's demand for a match, most of which happened off Dynamite; a title match with Big Swole that got so little promotion it bordered on parody). Yeah, Shida was the champion during a period where she had to carry green wrestlers from a skeleton roster, but the degree to which that rarely managed to be good television has probably added up.
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