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Post by Stu on Apr 8, 2021 10:13:45 GMT -5
He's not dumb and I don't believe he's a racist. Out-of-touch, maybe a little, but not as much as some of his detractors would like to think. It's a reference to an old forum meme. "Vince Russo is a dumb out-of-touch racist. Also, a sexist homophobe." I don't think Meltzer is racist or dumb either, for the record, he just fundamentally lacks the tools to discuss anything race or gender related and hasn't shown any effort over the years to improve himself in that regard. I really don't remember this meme.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Apr 8, 2021 10:20:08 GMT -5
I mean, even if it is completely his idea (which I highly doubt) the Apollo thing is still a ridiculous racist cartoon. Same way that the Orlando Jordan, "He's bi so he's basically a rapist," gimmick wasn't okay just because it was his idea. Yeah seriously, f*** Jordan for that gimmick. Thanks so much Orlando for that 'representation' of us Meltzer's stuff about blood turning women off is not just anecdotes or speculation, it's factual demonstrable data borne out in ratings. Blood and excessive violence turns off more women than it draws in men, even for something as well-received and watched as Britt Baker vs. Thunder Rosa. The plural of anecdote is not data, that is true--so an anecdote about a woman at a gathering who liked the violence is similarly meaningless. She's an exception. Source? Wrestling Observer Radio. Dave went into detail a few days ago not just about ratings trends but AEW's recent penchant to try to cram 60 guys onto one show, and how you can't build stars that way, their penchant to set things up with big angles and then not follow up, and other booking problems they've been having.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2021 10:20:42 GMT -5
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 8, 2021 12:01:50 GMT -5
I am proud to say that I am a former subscriber to the Observer. Former in that I got tired of the rumors and innuendos (you don't have to be a WWE loyalist like Bruce Prichard to see it!) from him for the 3 years I subscribed. He gave to rise to the type of journalists and news reporters you see today in all of mainstream media (and no matter the politics)-very little facts and almost all based on their personal beliefs.
As a kid I preferred New Wave Wrestling magazine as it broke the kayfabe barrier but was mostly, if not completely, based on facts and behind the scenes information. But it's a lone star like Meltzer that becomes popular. And again, that's what most journalists today and reporters aspire to be-that lone star making a name for themselves solely based on their personal beliefs and what they think and nothing dealing with facts and truth.
I greatly dislike Bradshaw but I definitely smiled when he said guys from WWE would feed Meltzer false information just to see him run with it because I could totally see Dave falling for it and running with the lies as if they were truthful.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 8, 2021 12:07:29 GMT -5
If a source intentionally feeds a member of the press false information to embarrass them that isn't the same as the press member lying.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 8, 2021 12:16:11 GMT -5
When Apollo Crews debuted his new gimmick recently Meltzer absolutely trashed it, saying it sets wrestling back 35 years. This despite Crews himself saying it was his idea and he loves that he’s getting to embrace his Nigerian roots. Hell, Nigeria’s presidential aide officially endorsed Apollo too. Elderly white male Dave Meltzer though thinks that it’s, and I quote, racist and embarrassing. I can forgive people for assuming this about things like the Kabuki Girls and Apollo Crews new gimmick, considering the history of the wrestling industry in general and this company in particular. That Puerto Rican comment though....yeeeeesh
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 8, 2021 13:11:50 GMT -5
And yet, Meltzer will always get more hate for not being 100% correct at all times or for giving matches a 1/4 star less than some people think it should have gotten.
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 8, 2021 22:34:47 GMT -5
If a source intentionally feeds a member of the press false information to embarrass them that isn't the same as the press member lying. He should be on guard for something like that to happen. He's obviously a very polarizing figure and probably has as many wrestlers and agents who dislike him just as much as ones that do. If it wasn't a long time, trusted source then he should be fact checking.
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Post by Crow Dust on Apr 9, 2021 7:22:19 GMT -5
The thought of someone being ready to kill for Kevin Kelly I would kill someone right now for Kyle Kelly
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 9, 2021 9:07:20 GMT -5
If a source intentionally feeds a member of the press false information to embarrass them that isn't the same as the press member lying. He should be on guard for something like that to happen. He's obviously a very polarizing figure and probably has as many wrestlers and agents who dislike him just as much as ones that do. If it wasn't a long time, trusted source then he should be fact checking. So Meltzer deals in rumor & innuendo which he gets fed from people connected to various promotions to discredit him which he should be responsible for varifying by checking with the same people that gave him false information?
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 9, 2021 9:32:37 GMT -5
So Meltzer deals in rumor & innuendo which he gets fed from people connected to various promotions to discredit him which he should be responsible for varifying by checking with the same people that gave him false information? I don't know who fed him the lies because I doubt it was Bradshaw personally, Dave would probably know not to trust him but he should have enough trusted sources that if someone new is telling him something he should verify it. I know he is on a time crunch but if he's hearing stuff from someone he's never dealt with before or someone not known for getting all the facts right he should verify. But people keep buying the newsletter no matter what so I get why he wouldn't verify.
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Post by fortknox on Apr 9, 2021 9:36:32 GMT -5
The thought of someone being ready to kill for Kevin Kelly I would kill someone right now for Kyle Kelly I'd stab a mofo for Kelly Kelly.
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Post by mrpeacock on Apr 10, 2021 2:03:54 GMT -5
Meltzer's stuff about blood turning women off is not just anecdotes or speculation, it's factual demonstrable data borne out in ratings. Blood and excessive violence turns off more women than it draws in men, even for something as well-received and watched as Britt Baker vs. Thunder Rosa. The plural of anecdote is not data, that is true--so an anecdote about a woman at a gathering who liked the violence is similarly meaningless. She's an exception. According to the ratings the female viewership grew in the Thunder Rosa vs Britt Baker match especially towards the end.
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Post by theghost on Apr 11, 2021 2:58:33 GMT -5
I greatly dislike Bradshaw but I definitely smiled when he said guys from WWE would feed Meltzer false information just to see him run with it because I could totally see Dave falling for it and running with the lies as if they were truthful. I always thought that they fed Meltzer false stories less to embarrass him and more to figure out who was leaking info to him.
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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Apr 11, 2021 6:54:03 GMT -5
Isn't the stuff about the cars whhels falling off him saying that he thought WWE would go there, with them being WWE and being a f***ing trash fire, rather than saying "hey they should have done that, it would have been funny cos stereotypes"
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 11, 2021 17:19:30 GMT -5
The AEW booking rant he went on was odd. You can absolutely criticize the booking but going on a rant about trying to get too many people over and thr blood and guts drives the female audience away was very disjointed and made little sense.
I never understood the Bad Bunny comment either. Dude is one of the most popular figures in music if not the most popular now and the fact that he was willing and able to commit as much time as he did? WWE would be fools not to take advantage of that.
I do think Meltzer still does do a good job overall covering things, but I think there are times where he assumes too much based on very little
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 11, 2021 17:31:31 GMT -5
Meltzer has been very overly frustrated lately and it's been causing some weird comments from him. I don't think he's actually a racist or anything, but when he is flustered, it makes his usual long winded anecdotes even worse. Maybe it's something going on with him personally, maybe he's just disgruntled at the current climate of wrestling. No idea, but it has been a bit telling. He'd probably never be one to take a break, but maybe he should let Bryan take the lead a little more on certain topics.
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petef3
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Post by petef3 on Apr 11, 2021 17:57:00 GMT -5
The AEW booking rant he went on was odd. You can absolutely criticize the booking but going on a rant about trying to get too many people over and thr blood and guts drives the female audience away was very disjointed and made little sense. I thought the comments about too many people in being on AEW made perfect sense. "Russo made sure everyone had something to do" is the most overrated talking point ever, or at least is in the running. That kinda sorta worked in 1997-98 when the WWF's roster depth was the absolute pits and half the guys they did have were injured. It was a disaster in WCW and it doesn't work with 60 guys on a show. If everybody's special, then no one's special. Roster depth is nice, but it's stars who have always driven both the wrestling and combat sport businesses. AEW needs to decide who their stars are and make sure they're treated as such.
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Post by johnnyk9 on Apr 13, 2021 21:24:30 GMT -5
What will he come up with next
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2021 22:50:09 GMT -5
The AEW booking rant he went on was odd. You can absolutely criticize the booking but going on a rant about trying to get too many people over and thr blood and guts drives the female audience away was very disjointed and made little sense. I thought the comments about too many people in being on AEW made perfect sense. "Russo made sure everyone had something to do" is the most overrated talking point ever, or at least is in the running. That kinda sorta worked in 1997-98 when the WWF's roster depth was the absolute pits and half the guys they did have were injured. It was a disaster in WCW and it doesn't work with 60 guys on a show. If everybody's special, then no one's special. Roster depth is nice, but it's stars who have always driven both the wrestling and combat sport businesses. AEW needs to decide who their stars are and make sure they're treated as such. I was thinking the other day and I can't actually remember the last time AEW had a storyline that was just about two specific people without anyone else as a central player in it. I'm not sure there's actually been a single one since the first Moxley vs. Omega feud since what other singles feuds that stayed singles that I can think of still generally had the heel have someone always there doing run-ins for them.
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