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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 15, 2021 9:35:26 GMT -5
If a source intentionally feeds a member of the press false information to embarrass them that isn't the same as the press member lying. True, but it does show Meltzer does not vet, confirm and double source a lot of the news he puts in his newsletter.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 16:51:06 GMT -5
Well he's at it again.
Anyone who remembers the way he would talk about Sable, Chyna, Nicole Bass, Francine and others back in the day can't be surprised when the mask slips on occasions like this and the Peyton Royce stuff.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 22, 2021 16:58:58 GMT -5
So Charlotte isn't disputing the first piece about her getting dental surgery and I'm sure most people agree with his second point regarding the pressures of the industry. I get why Charlotte would be upset because I doubt in her mind that she's getting surgery because of office pressure. I'm sure she's getting it because she wants it and thinks she'll look better off for it. And that's fine. It's her body, her choice. I'm sure most talent who get cosmetic surgery would feel the same way. No one in the moment is going to acknowledge any pressure. But it exists and often on a much more subtle level. Just listen to Serena Deeb talk about her decision to get (and then subsequently remove) her breast implants. There's definitely a cosmetic pressure in the industry that predominantly effects women. It probably would have been better if Dave had said "now I'm not saying this is the reason for her" or something to that effect but I thought it was implied and he was more commenting on the industry as a whole. It feels more like a misunderstanding to me that ideally could've been resolved off of Twitter.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 22, 2021 17:15:00 GMT -5
I am so, so sick of the Meltzer controversies. Just every part of them.
I don't actually think he's said anything especially controversial here, it's something that's been talked about multiple times by a number of people. But the wrestler in question has kicked off on Twitter over it and that's been a dogwhistle for all the sad cases whose hobby is whinging about him to collectively lose their shit over it and blow this ludicrously out of proportion. MeltzerSaidWhat on Twitter and r/SquaredCircle/SCJerk are all working themselves up into a frenzy and just...f***ing hell.
All this bullshit is honestly a bigger part of me not enjoying wrestling very much at the moment, moreso than the actual wrestling.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 22, 2021 17:23:55 GMT -5
My main problem with these controversies is that they always elevate Twitter accounts like MeltzerSaidWhat and Bluray which post a ton of super problematic bullshit.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Apr 22, 2021 17:27:35 GMT -5
I think it's usually 50/50 that Meltzer is misquoted but there are definitely times he says dumb shit. This isn't one of them. He said WWE makes them feel self-conscious, which by all accounts, that's kind of true? I don't think he was saying anything that out of school, here. Charlotte getting pissed and taking it out of context is riling up folks to come to her defense.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 22, 2021 17:32:34 GMT -5
My main problem with these controversies is that they always elevate Twitter accounts like MeltzerSaidWhat and Bluray which post a ton of super problematic bullshit. It's ridiculous, they're run by people whose purpose in life is to poke around for things he says so they can complain about them and skew what he says so they can attack it. It's reaching the point of absurdity, "Meltzer said Konnan was American and he's actually Cuban American" was a highlight from one of these accounts. It's like the nerds in the Simpsons combing over Itchy & Scratchy for slight inconsistencies and then presenting them as gotchas. What he's said here is not a hot take, I don't think he really expressed it especially badly either (or for him at least), this is yet another storm in a teacup stirred up by people with nothing better to do than to cause trouble on the internet.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Apr 22, 2021 17:32:36 GMT -5
Since someone mentioned Peyton I will defend Dave on that. From what I read when it happened he made a comment on her ring work getting worse when she was called up as she gained some weight. Weight referring to her breast implants. Now he was not commenting on her looks and he was only commenting on her body as it related to her ring work, her job. This to me is no different than him talking about a male wrestlers ring work getting worse after gaining weight or bulking up. It may be slightly grayer because it was breasts but again he was not talking about how they look or anything.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 22, 2021 17:45:38 GMT -5
Since someone mentioned Peyton I will defend Dave on that. From what I read when it happened he made a comment on her ring work getting worse when she was called up as she gained some weight. Weight referring to her breast implants. Now he was not commenting on her looks and he was only commenting on her body as it related to her ring work, her job. This to me is no different than him talking about a male wrestlers ring work getting worse after gaining weight or bulking up. It may be slightly grayer because it was breasts but again he was not talking about how they look or anything. Most of the controversies surrounding him are stuff like this, where someone picks on what he said and then either doesn't bother to apply critical thinking to it or chooses to deliberately misinterpret it. He did express himself carelessly with regards to Peyton Royce, but admitted that and clarified what he meant. That should've been the end of it, but people are still harping on about it knowing full well what was meant and choosing to ignore that so they can wind people up. There are people for whom he can't say anything without it being wrong somehow and a matter of contention: "Dave got an Indian takeaway the other night and though the sag paneer was a bit dry, why does he hate Indians so much?!" "Dave preferred Nirvana to L7 in 1991, he's such a f***ing misogynist."
Anyway, sorry guys, rant over. I don't even like him that much or agree with a lot of his opinions, I'm just tired of the constant fighting whenever his name comes up.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 22, 2021 17:50:22 GMT -5
Well he's at it again. Anyone who remembers the way he would talk about Sable, Chyna, Nicole Bass, Francine and others back in the day can't be surprised when the mask slips on occasions like this and the Peyton Royce stuff. Yeah, and he picked on Nancy Benoit when she gained weight too. Over at Blog of Doom, we just recapped an Observer where he either said he hoped Beulah didn't gain weight or should gain weight for the pregnancy angle. (but nothing about how Dreamer shouldn't have piledriven her the week before the angle started, go fig. No I am never letting Heyman, ECW, or anyone live that one down ;-)) Chyna and Bass got what would now be considered LGBTQ-insensitive cracks from Meltzer. Even goes back to the 80s, when he coined "Flabulous Moolah" on a regular basis, and say what you want about her but that's still low blows.
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Post by Welfare Willis on Apr 22, 2021 18:03:07 GMT -5
Since someone mentioned Peyton I will defend Dave on that. From what I read when it happened he made a comment on her ring work getting worse when she was called up as she gained some weight. Weight referring to her breast implants. Now he was not commenting on her looks and he was only commenting on her body as it related to her ring work, her job. This to me is no different than him talking about a male wrestlers ring work getting worse after gaining weight or bulking up. It may be slightly grayer because it was breasts but again he was not talking about how they look or anything. Most of the controversies surrounding him are stuff like this, where someone picks on what he said and then either doesn't bother to apply critical thinking to it or chooses to deliberately misinterpret it. He did express himself carelessly with regards to Peyton Royce, but admitted that and clarified what he meant. That should've been the end of it, but people are still harping on about it knowing full well what was meant and choosing to ignore that so they can wind people up. There are people for whom he can't say anything without it being wrong somehow and a matter of contention: "Dave got an Indian takeaway the other night and though the sag paneer was a bit dry, why does he hate Indians so much?!" "Dave preferred Nirvana to L7 in 1991, he's such a f***ing misogynist." Anyway, sorry guys, rant over. I don't even like him that much or agree with a lot of his opinions, I'm just tired of the constant fighting whenever his name comes up.
Yeah, I tend to agree with this thought, but that said Dave may want to be careful with his choice of words. I think a lot of people can look at things someone has said in the past and wrongly apply malice to stupidity. I'm not proud of some things I've said in the past on this board. Still, the issue appears Dave proposed a theory: WWE makes Charlotte self conscious about her body so that's why she's having dental surgery. When Dave could have stepped back and just contacted Charlotte regarding this. Charlotte has been pretty fed up with this commentary about her looks recently. She put out a tweet (paraphrasing) "I'm not going to listen to a man make comments about my body" a couple of days ago. Which as a female in media like Charlotte I imagine has to be pretty horrifying to begin with. Dave suffers from a poor choice of words on his part. There's something to be discussed about a beauty standard in media, but Dave's implication is this is either consciously or subconsciously the WWE's fault. Which who the hell knows if that is true or not. Vince has his types (typically blondes) but there's a toxic part of our community (I mean wrestling fans in general, not here specifically) as well that feel like they can say awful stuff to women.
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 22, 2021 18:08:43 GMT -5
I would love to see Dave go the way of Jim Cornette on these boards and I hope cancel culture does catch up with him at some point. He's such a small blip on the radar I doubt it would.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 22, 2021 18:22:54 GMT -5
If a source intentionally feeds a member of the press false information to embarrass them that isn't the same as the press member lying. True, but it does show Meltzer does not vet, confirm and double source a lot of the news he puts in his newsletter. But what mechanism exist to prevent the carnys who run wrestling from either lying to embarrass the press or force them to act like real sports league, all of whom are covered by the press & media beyond PR that they control?
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 22, 2021 19:07:27 GMT -5
True, but it does show Meltzer does not vet, confirm and double source a lot of the news he puts in his newsletter. But what mechanism exist to prevent the carnys who run wrestling from either lying to embarrass the press or force them to act like real sports league, all of whom are covered by the press & media beyond PR that they control? Nothing can stop multiple sources from lying, but not reporting single-sourced rumors would certainly cut down on some misreports. There’s a reason multiple sources is the standard of true journalism.
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 22, 2021 19:24:55 GMT -5
I used to work in the homeless advocacy field and there was a time when the homeless problem become so great in our area that there would be newspaper reports every week. Many reporters would interview both those with homeless agencies and the homeless themselves. The homeless would lie making the reporters believe it was not a drug addiction or criminal record that made them homeless and the agency reps would lie in telling reporters it was the drug addiction and criminal records that kept many from coming in to the shelters when there was in fact no rules against drug use or past criminal records.
I had left the agency around this time due to increased anger with lack of services by our agency and although I knew the homeless interviewed were lying I also knew full well those I worked with were lying as well because these reporters took everyone at their word. Funnily enough I had a reporter link up with me a few months later to do what he thought would be the definitive article of homelessness. Sad to say it sucked because everyone wound up telling the truth and there was no sensationalism in the truth.
I guess since wrestling is based on the all mighty kayfabe it's pretty easy for a guy like Meltzer who deals in rumors, half truths and innuendos and maybe even lies to become the so called very best in his field. I would personally recommend the writers at Slam Wrestling over him. Many of these writers have befriended wrestlers and the wrestlers trust the writers to tell them the truth because they know the writers will write the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2021 19:53:16 GMT -5
So this is what the what everyone is going to pretend to be outraged over this week?
This company has done this shit and treated women like shit for years. Yet those soiling themselves on Twitter and pretending Meltzer said something super problematic will continue to give that company money. For f***'s sake, they sent Mickie James a garbage bag. I mean, look at Serena Deeb's story. They didn't offer her a contract until she got plastic surgery.
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 22, 2021 19:55:32 GMT -5
So this is what the what everyone is going to pretend to be outraged over this week? This company has done this shit and treated women like shit for years. Yet those soiling themselves on Twitter and pretending Meltzer said something super problematic will continue to give that company money. For f***'s sake, they sent Mickie James a garbage bag. I mean, look at Serena Deeb's story. They didn't offer her a contract until she got plastic surgery. They all can be bad things independently of one another.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 22, 2021 20:03:09 GMT -5
I guess since wrestling is based on the all mighty kayfabe it's pretty easy for a guy like Meltzer who deals in rumors, half truths and innuendos and maybe even lies to become the so called very best in his field. I would personally recommend the writers at Slam Wrestling over him. Many of these writers have befriended wrestlers and the wrestlers trust the writers to tell them the truth because they know the writers will write the truth. I mean, to be fair, Meltzer has been been friends with a number of wrestlers too - his sources - but because a few don't like him and tiresome man-babies like JBL got their rocks off feeding him false information to spoil his newsletters, it's now assumed that he's universally reviled by everyone in the industry when that's patently not true.
And he's right far more often than he's wrong. All journalists get it wrong on occasion, it's just one of those things that most people seem to accept, and for him it's harder because wrestling is still clandestine and he relies on a small handful of sources. But when he does it's blown out of proportion and then used as a stick with which to relentlessly beat him. I don't think he's ever outright lied, he's just had some information that wasn't entirely accurate and has reported it (likely because it's hard for him to corroborate), people like Seth Rollins have thrown their toys out of the pram over it, fans have gobbled up the outrageous reaction, and it's become an accepted "truth" that Dave Meltzer lies when he doesn't.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 22, 2021 23:55:48 GMT -5
I would love to see Dave go the way of Jim Cornette on these boards and I hope cancel culture does catch up with him at some point. He's such a small blip on the radar I doubt it would. I hope that it doesn't go nuclear not even out of any feelings toward Meltzer but because the Cornette threads became miserable battlegrounds of "No it's perfectly reasonable to wish death on this person", people moving the goalposts around in a circle to justify all kinds of heinous shit, and a few people who got dangerously close to literally just reciting white supremacist slogans. Thankfully that last camp all got banned, but nobody needs thatk ind of insanity bogging everyone's days down again. But still, I don't see any way in which the two are comparable in terms of behavior or in terms of the discource that comes from what they said.
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Post by mattyy on Apr 23, 2021 0:01:20 GMT -5
I guess since wrestling is based on the all mighty kayfabe it's pretty easy for a guy like Meltzer who deals in rumors, half truths and innuendos and maybe even lies hey hey bruce, how's it goin'
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