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Post by sportatorium on Apr 14, 2021 16:14:50 GMT -5
From a business standpoint despite some misses- he’ll never be matched.
From a human standpoint, he’s shady and greedy. Has probably helped a bunch of people but has directly and indirectly harmed many many people.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Apr 14, 2021 16:49:24 GMT -5
PT Barnum of his era. Trashy huckster cynically playing to the lowest common denominator, and damn good at it.
The actual quality of the WWF/E product will largely be irrelevant to discussions of him, since it'll be looked back upon as a basically irreproducible niche freakshow that managed to hit the right notes at the right time to make a lot of money.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 15, 2021 10:57:33 GMT -5
He's going to be remembered as an important figure but I have a feeling history won't remember him kindly. More aptly he'll be remembered like every other shady promoter, but because of his reach it will be on a much bigger scale.
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Post by Vice honcho room temperature on Apr 15, 2021 11:04:29 GMT -5
Vince McMahon is a land of contrasts
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Ben Wyatt
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 15, 2021 11:15:15 GMT -5
A genius for the wrestling industry even though there will always people that hate that he made it sports entertainment. But he got wrestling to reach heights it never had prior to the 80s by taking the best of other territories (AWA, etc). And then somehow when his product started aging and getting stale, and WCW started beating them, managed to combat them with changing Monday Night Raw to Raw Is War and having a 2nd boom for the WWF. Then went public and while never would reach the heights he did in the 80s and late 90s, the company hasn't lost as much money as they did in the mid 90s either, so there is something to be said about that. Of course now it is time for him to move away and for the company to be ran by someone else. Dude managed to get a billion dollar television deal off of WRESTLING... which TV Executives and Advertising executives almost universally hate. He's a great promoter and a good but from all accounts ruthless businessman. He also should have delegated years ago but is stubborn as all hell to ever admit or give up his baby willingly. Some will try and say that he killed the territories... but they were on their way out and the others had their own ideas in place for that too... Vince is just the one that was the most successful. as for the "Taking" bit... Hurricane mentioned something on Twitter on something similar when someone talked about Vince "stealing" talent from the AWA. he said he hated the term stealing because it was so one sided, it'd be like saying he was stolen by WCW away from the indies. and he has a point on that... Taken/stolen etc. makes it sound like Vince threw a bag on their head and abducted them... when it was more like Vince went up to them and said "Hey Pal, I'll pay you three times what you are making here" in quotes because I am certain at least Hey pal is a direct quotation That said was Vince a saintly figure that all should worship? Of course f***ing not... he's one of many people that blatantly misuse the Independent Contractor clause to basically put a stranglehold on people that should be his employees, he's either racist or at least ok with hiring/employing racists, and I could go on forever on this. He's also done things like given people jobs when he heard they were in dire straits, (as awful and racist a gimmick it is Tony Atlas says Saba Simba "saved his life"). He's complicated as f***, but I mean... most people kind are? This is basically what I came in to say.
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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Apr 15, 2021 11:54:05 GMT -5
I think it will likely depend on what comes out once he's dead and not in a position to annihilate anyone with massively drawn out libel/slander lawsuits.
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Post by eJm on Apr 15, 2021 11:59:43 GMT -5
I think it will likely depend on what comes out once he's dead and not in a position to annihilate anyone with massively drawn out libel/slander lawsuits. This is something too. One of the bigger things to come from shareholders meetings, for example, is that Wall Street as a whole, LOVE Vince. They loved him when they first went public, they love him during the Cena era and they really love him now. They have confidence in him because, well, he brings some money unlike many other big companies recently. It’s one of the reasons why it’ll be interesting as well because there is no recorded plan of succession for when Vince passes away so that person who takes over (who for my money, looks to be Nick Khan) has some big shoes to fill and the person who does not show confidence in doing that...well, there’s a reasonable possibility that the floodgates would open when WWE itself is potentially at its weakest.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 15, 2021 12:02:41 GMT -5
I think it will likely depend on what comes out once he's dead and not in a position to annihilate anyone with massively drawn out libel/slander lawsuits. That's the way it goes with any celebrity.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 15, 2021 12:11:30 GMT -5
I think it will likely depend on what comes out once he's dead and not in a position to annihilate anyone with massively drawn out libel/slander lawsuits. This is something too. One of the bigger things to come from shareholders meetings, for example, is that Wall Street as a whole, LOVE Vince. They loved him when they first went public, they love him during the Cena era and they really love him now. They have confidence in him because, well, he brings some money unlike many other big companies recently. It’s one of the reasons why it’ll be interesting as well because there is no recorded plan of succession for when Vince passes away so that person who takes over (who for my money, looks to be Nick Khan) has some big shoes to fill and the person who does not show confidence in doing that...well, there’s a reasonable possibility that the floodgates would open when WWE itself is potentially at its weakest. I've been wondering for a little bit now if some of the broadcast deals are preparing for a broadcaster to take the company over when he retires/falls off the hooks with someone like Khan sitting in as president or something, for exactly this reason. People talk about Stephanie and Trips taking the helm but I'm not sure how realistic that really is because I'm not convinced the other shareholders are going to have the same confidence in them that they do McMahon or that they would in an established media company.
You're right, it will be really fascinating to see what happens.
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Post by eJm on Apr 15, 2021 12:27:56 GMT -5
This is something too. One of the bigger things to come from shareholders meetings, for example, is that Wall Street as a whole, LOVE Vince. They loved him when they first went public, they love him during the Cena era and they really love him now. They have confidence in him because, well, he brings some money unlike many other big companies recently. It’s one of the reasons why it’ll be interesting as well because there is no recorded plan of succession for when Vince passes away so that person who takes over (who for my money, looks to be Nick Khan) has some big shoes to fill and the person who does not show confidence in doing that...well, there’s a reasonable possibility that the floodgates would open when WWE itself is potentially at its weakest. I've been wondering for a little bit now if some of the broadcast deals are preparing for a broadcaster to take the company over when he retires/falls off the hooks with someone like Khan sitting in as president or something, for exactly this reason. People talk about Stephanie and Trips taking the helm but I'm not sure how realistic that really is because I'm not convinced the other shareholders are going to have the same confidence in them that they do McMahon or that they would in an established media company. You're right, it will be really fascinating to see what happens.
Yeah, like, as much as Steph or Hunter would be the logical choice, they haven't exactly put in a position to be successors in the same way Khan has been. Steph is the media manager and HHH is involved in the development of talent, sure, but neither of those involved too much dealing with networks and getting things hashed out for the main shows. Khan basically helping WWE sell the Network, a task they set themselves years ago, on pretty much his first go after failed deals with ESPN and even failed UK deals, is something that shareholders will remember. It was something not even Vince could pull off so The thing we also can't rule out, and it might sound outlandish for me to say, is that ownership goes to the Saudi government. I know, I know, it sounds crazy but the key thing we have to remember is that nobody knows the terms of the Saudi deal in of itself. It's kept from shareholders who have failed in lawsuits to get the deal made public to them and one of the terms of the UFC deal before they dropped out was that the Saudis could potentially get ownership long term of the company. And UFC is a much bigger company than WWE is, or at least in terms of getting crossover star power in recent times, so it's absolutely not something to rule out. And to link that back to Vince, he was the one to put his pen to that deal. The potential repercussions would be huge if people found out while he was alive and worse for his legacy when he passes.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 15, 2021 13:13:08 GMT -5
I've been wondering for a little bit now if some of the broadcast deals are preparing for a broadcaster to take the company over when he retires/falls off the hooks with someone like Khan sitting in as president or something, for exactly this reason. People talk about Stephanie and Trips taking the helm but I'm not sure how realistic that really is because I'm not convinced the other shareholders are going to have the same confidence in them that they do McMahon or that they would in an established media company. You're right, it will be really fascinating to see what happens.
Yeah, like, as much as Steph or Hunter would be the logical choice, they haven't exactly put in a position to be successors in the same way Khan has been. Steph is the media manager and HHH is involved in the development of talent, sure, but neither of those involved too much dealing with networks and getting things hashed out for the main shows. Khan basically helping WWE sell the Network, a task they set themselves years ago, on pretty much his first go after failed deals with ESPN and even failed UK deals, is something that shareholders will remember. It was something not even Vince could pull off so The thing we also can't rule out, and it might sound outlandish for me to say, is that ownership goes to the Saudi government. I know, I know, it sounds crazy but the key thing we have to remember is that nobody knows the terms of the Saudi deal in of itself. It's kept from shareholders who have failed in lawsuits to get the deal made public to them and one of the terms of the UFC deal before they dropped out was that the Saudis could potentially get ownership long term of the company. And UFC is a much bigger company than WWE is, or at least in terms of getting crossover star power in recent times, so it's absolutely not something to rule out. And to link that back to Vince, he was the one to put his pen to that deal. The potential repercussions would be huge if people found out while he was alive and worse for his legacy when he passes. Man, I engaged in the slacktivism of not watching the Saudi shows but if they ended up owning it I would just be done altogether.
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Post by eJm on Apr 15, 2021 13:15:09 GMT -5
Yeah, like, as much as Steph or Hunter would be the logical choice, they haven't exactly put in a position to be successors in the same way Khan has been. Steph is the media manager and HHH is involved in the development of talent, sure, but neither of those involved too much dealing with networks and getting things hashed out for the main shows. Khan basically helping WWE sell the Network, a task they set themselves years ago, on pretty much his first go after failed deals with ESPN and even failed UK deals, is something that shareholders will remember. It was something not even Vince could pull off so The thing we also can't rule out, and it might sound outlandish for me to say, is that ownership goes to the Saudi government. I know, I know, it sounds crazy but the key thing we have to remember is that nobody knows the terms of the Saudi deal in of itself. It's kept from shareholders who have failed in lawsuits to get the deal made public to them and one of the terms of the UFC deal before they dropped out was that the Saudis could potentially get ownership long term of the company. And UFC is a much bigger company than WWE is, or at least in terms of getting crossover star power in recent times, so it's absolutely not something to rule out. And to link that back to Vince, he was the one to put his pen to that deal. The potential repercussions would be huge if people found out while he was alive and worse for his legacy when he passes. Man, I engaged in the slacktivism of not watching the Saudi shows but if they ended up owning it I would just be done altogether. Like, for all I know, I could be completely wrong and they signed a different kind of deal to UFC or any other factors but the big thing is nobody can rule it out because that deal isn't accessible to shareholders and I imagine that deal isn't accessible to shareholders for a very good reason.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 15, 2021 13:23:50 GMT -5
Yeah, like, as much as Steph or Hunter would be the logical choice, they haven't exactly put in a position to be successors in the same way Khan has been. Steph is the media manager and HHH is involved in the development of talent, sure, but neither of those involved too much dealing with networks and getting things hashed out for the main shows. Khan basically helping WWE sell the Network, a task they set themselves years ago, on pretty much his first go after failed deals with ESPN and even failed UK deals, is something that shareholders will remember. It was something not even Vince could pull off so The thing we also can't rule out, and it might sound outlandish for me to say, is that ownership goes to the Saudi government. I know, I know, it sounds crazy but the key thing we have to remember is that nobody knows the terms of the Saudi deal in of itself. It's kept from shareholders who have failed in lawsuits to get the deal made public to them and one of the terms of the UFC deal before they dropped out was that the Saudis could potentially get ownership long term of the company. And UFC is a much bigger company than WWE is, or at least in terms of getting crossover star power in recent times, so it's absolutely not something to rule out. And to link that back to Vince, he was the one to put his pen to that deal. The potential repercussions would be huge if people found out while he was alive and worse for his legacy when he passes. That's it, they've had office jobs but overseeing NXT or whatever Trips does and being media manager is a world away from chairing the entire company, and the shareholders are going to know this and probably won't take kindly to control of this huge company ceding to two people who are relatively inexperienced.
And yeah, I don't think the idea of the Saudis buying it is actually that outrageous, it's become fairly common for Gulf state governments to invest in legitimate sports teams so there's little reason for why they wouldn't expand that to pretend sports, especially an entity as useful to them as WWE. I don't think they're the most obvious choice (more likely NBC or Fox) but yeah, it's not completely outside of the realms of possibility.
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Post by Spider2024 on Apr 15, 2021 14:14:25 GMT -5
That nWo promo he gave in 2002 pretty much sounds autobiographical in hindsight...
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Apr 15, 2021 14:44:36 GMT -5
Can't elaborate for obvious reasons, but Vince's reputation is pretty much cemented as one of the single most immoral and corrupt people to exist within his lifetime.
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Post by Dub H on Apr 15, 2021 14:58:14 GMT -5
A man that made a legacy but that you shouldnt respect
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Post by Viking Hall on Apr 15, 2021 15:34:55 GMT -5
The most important man in wrestling whatever your opinion is of him.
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Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on Apr 15, 2021 15:45:39 GMT -5
The most successful wrestling promoter in history, who happily burned trucks of money in his later years because of his own stubbornness about body image and his own superiority complexes.
Outside of the wrestling bubble? Bad person and genuinely a strange man.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 15, 2021 16:02:57 GMT -5
Man, I engaged in the slacktivism of not watching the Saudi shows but if they ended up owning it I would just be done altogether. Like, for all I know, I could be completely wrong and they signed a different kind of deal to UFC or any other factors but the big thing is nobody can rule it out because that deal isn't accessible to shareholders and I imagine that deal isn't accessible to shareholders for a very good reason. Wouldn't they be opening themselves up to all kinds of lawsuits though?
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Post by eJm on Apr 15, 2021 16:04:13 GMT -5
Like, for all I know, I could be completely wrong and they signed a different kind of deal to UFC or any other factors but the big thing is nobody can rule it out because that deal isn't accessible to shareholders and I imagine that deal isn't accessible to shareholders for a very good reason. Wouldn't they be opening themselves up to all kinds of lawsuits though? They've opened themselves up to all kinds of lawsuits now from it so it doesn't seem to make that much of a difference to them.
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