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Post by mauled on Apr 15, 2021 5:01:45 GMT -5
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Post by eJm on Apr 15, 2021 5:14:43 GMT -5
Sure, he was...
If you ignore the fact Bret was a massive part of why the WWF was a massive success internationally when US TV ratings and attendances were down.
I'd argue, just like with Cena during the late 2000s, we'd be talking about a really different WWF if Bret wasn't around for as long as he was as champion.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 15, 2021 5:56:56 GMT -5
I'd say Bret was more successful than Warrior, Flair, Shawn, and Nash. Of course other guys more recently who have only held the title for a cup of coffee but I was trying to go with guys who had significant runs around the same time.
He wasn't Hogan, Austin, Rock, or Cena but to me Bret had better reigns than Undertaker ever did. Not to be funny but I'd put Bret as a solid B+ world champion. Those guys above were all a B- or worse.
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msc
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,432
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Post by msc on Apr 15, 2021 6:24:19 GMT -5
On the contrary, Bret was one of the most important draws in company history. During a massive downturn, yes? But if it wasn't for Bret and his cortege of regulars there wouldn't BE a WWF for Austin and Rock to explode into the stratosphere in the late 90s. WWF was in dire straits in the mid 90s and Bret Hart kept it breathing.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Apr 15, 2021 7:02:43 GMT -5
Knowing Bret, he'll take the high road and pass no remark about this
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 15, 2021 7:30:18 GMT -5
Yeah no, Eric. Bret was a massive draw in Europe and Canada, and he and Shawn Michaels are the only reasons WWE didn't go bankrupt by 1996. He may not have drawn new fans the way Hogan did but there would be no WWE now without Bret around to stop the bleeding. Cena was kind of the same. Maybe he didn't create a boom period but he sure as hell prevented a bust. And if nobody cares about Bret then why was the Screwjob such an infamous moment in wrestling history that we still talk about nearly 25 years later? I want the drugs Bischoff is on.
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Post by mauled on Apr 15, 2021 8:46:29 GMT -5
Yeah no, Eric. Bret was a massive draw in Europe and Canada, and he and Shawn Michaels are the only reasons WWE didn't go bankrupt by 1996. He may not have drawn new fans the way Hogan did but there would be no WWE now without Bret around to stop the bleeding. Cena was kind of the same. Maybe he didn't create a boom period but he sure as hell prevented a bust. And if nobody cares about Bret then why was the Screwjob such an infamous moment in wrestling history that we still talk about nearly 25 years later? I want the drugs Bischoff is on. Bishoff also makes himself look like an idiot. If Bret was so bad then why the hell did he spend so much money to sign him???
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Apr 15, 2021 8:58:19 GMT -5
As people have said, people like Bischoff who criticise his drawing power in the US sleep on his drawing ability in Canada and Europe at a time in the early/mid nineties when non-US business was pretty much keeping the WWF afloat. There's a generation of fans or lapsed fans in Europe in particular for whom Bret Hart is still synonymous with wrestling.
And there's no way he's less successful than someone like Stan Stasiak whose run was instantly forgettable other than as an obscure piece of trivia, or a notoriously awful run like Sgt. Slaughter's.
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Post by evilone on Apr 15, 2021 9:00:05 GMT -5
Oh please Eric! I know you have sour grapes with Bret because he has said what he has said. I do not agree with Bret's views on Eric and especially Russo who gave him a WCW title on platter to do whatever he wants with it but it is what it is. I agree with Eric that Bret today views him as some bad guy idiot just like he did think of Vince before the makeup but there is a big fact hre that cannot be ignored. Bret, Vince and Shawn were the kliq of successful era that they've built together and you never forget that. Yes they all hated and loved each other at the time because there was synergetic success and passion behind them. Bret knows there would be no Bret without Shawn and Vince and both Shawn and Vince know there would be no them without Bret. That's why they made up. Meanwhile WCW and Eric were just there for the payday for Bret. Why would Bret make up with Eric? Because he gave him the opportunity to go over Hogan? Nope. Because he put him in the main event title picture? Nope that didn't happen either. Bret should make up with Eric because he has paid him a lot and in return he took him to midcard and US title. Sting has all the reasons to not hold grudge against Hogan or Eric because all three of them have built their own success off each other like Bret, Shawn and Vince did in WWE.
Btw sole reason why Bret didn't do much in WCW was Eric. So he might as well suck it up on that one.
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Post by corndog on Apr 15, 2021 11:48:43 GMT -5
Yeah no, Eric. Bret was a massive draw in Europe and Canada, and he and Shawn Michaels are the only reasons WWE didn't go bankrupt by 1996. He may not have drawn new fans the way Hogan did but there would be no WWE now without Bret around to stop the bleeding. Cena was kind of the same. Maybe he didn't create a boom period but he sure as hell prevented a bust. And if nobody cares about Bret then why was the Screwjob such an infamous moment in wrestling history that we still talk about nearly 25 years later? I want the drugs Bischoff is on. Exactly, Vince couldn't even really afford the contract, but he knew he needed to do it. He had to keep Bret long enough to bridge the gap to Austin. By late '96 he knew he had a star in Austin, but he needed Bret to stick around to put him over and get Austin in the limelight. Bret's popularity in Canada and Europe kept the WWE from being forced to be a regional promotion that never would have caught up to WCW and possibly been forced to fold. Business started to fall pretty heavily when the 90s began and the steriod trial happened. No one would have kept the company where it was, not even Hogan, even he was starting to draw less with WWE and really needed to go to WCW to freshen things up. In a way, I can understand Bret's bitterness, at the same time I understand why Vince used Bret the way he did. His title reign in '92 was short lived, but it served a greater purpose, it established him as someone that could hang with the big dogs when they still had all of their top stars. While Hogan was a part timer, he was still there, Savage was still being booked seriously, he got put over by Ric Flair who was one of the biggest stars of the 80s. Bret was really the only one from the New Generation, besides Undertaker, that was actually handed the torch from the 80s boom generation. He also held the IC title when it actually meant something. It gave him credibility, so when Vince needed or tried to create a new star, Bret was the perfect candidate to put them over. I do think Vince wanted to groom Bret to be the next top star after Hogan left, but he never got the return he wanted, even though it was better than everyone else until Austin. You also have to wonder, where would Austin have ended up if he didn't have the feud with Bret that launched him into the top of the card? The image of Austin's bloody face, refusing to tap out is forever tied to his legacy.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Apr 15, 2021 11:54:39 GMT -5
Yeah that’s fair. He certainly was no Jinder Mahal
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2021 12:01:39 GMT -5
Yeah that’s fair. He certainly was no Jinder Mahal But then who is?
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Post by sfvega on Apr 15, 2021 12:06:46 GMT -5
Bischoff is a lot like Kevin Nash, in that I like both of them but find they are quick to pass off opinions (and sometimes outright lies) as objective facts. Which is why they probably got along swimmingly.
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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Apr 15, 2021 12:12:35 GMT -5
wasn't Jake Roberts saying the same thing last year?
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Post by Aceorton on Apr 15, 2021 12:58:53 GMT -5
Perhaps the guy who lost obscene amounts of money during one of the most lucrative periods in wrestling history and squandered a dominant ratings advantage by riding his one good booking idea into the ground is not the best person to talk about whether or not someone else was successful.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 15, 2021 13:07:51 GMT -5
Bischoff says a lot of things.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 15, 2021 13:43:30 GMT -5
Bischoff was in the trenches of the Monday Night Wars wheeling and dealing for so long that he’ll fall into this “if a main eventer didn’t grab the mainstream by the collar then they’re a bust” mentality. Even if he wasn’t a fan of Bret Hart’s work, the dude had plenty of tools still to where he could have made WCW even more money, if Eric didn’t have Hogan and his “250 lbs or over, brother” stuff in his other ear so often.
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mc74
Samurai Cop
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Post by mc74 on Apr 15, 2021 14:55:38 GMT -5
To say Bret Hart was the least successful champion couldn't be any further from the truth. Matter of fact, it's quite the opposite. Not only was he a household name on an international level, but he was also instrumental in helping kick off what was the next generation of professional wrestling at the time. The fans were completely behind him, and it's easy to see why. His technical prowess was second to none. Coupled with his wrestling ability, Bret also knew how to tell a story in the ring, and he was a master in that regard. His work on the mic has been debated, but then again, it's more about the character that Bret represented more than anything. Bret was the serious type who more or less let his work in the ring do the talking. He was also the true essence of a face in every sense of the word. Respect, family values, integrity, and putting on the best damn matches a wrestler can. That's what Bret was about. The Excellence of Execution wasn't just a nickname, Bret was the personification of just that.
As noted earlier from others too, yes, the WWF at the time was going through a rough time, but let's not forget that Bret was the guy helping keep the World Wrestling Federation afloat. If not for him, the WWF would've went under. It can't be stressed enough how important Bret was to professional wrestling.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 15, 2021 14:59:23 GMT -5
I'm sure the writers of the Simpsons had Bret Hart on the show because he was a nobody who couldn't draw.
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Wardlow on Wardlow 54
Wade Wilson
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Post by Wardlow on Wardlow 54 on Apr 15, 2021 21:04:36 GMT -5
I'm sure the writers of the Simpsons had Bret Hart on the show because he was a nobody who couldn't draw. Lol it's funny because not only could Bret draw ratings, he could have drawn the show if they asked him to!
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