|
Post by mrtuesday on Apr 23, 2021 14:31:06 GMT -5
Plus as a casual viewer of AEW I feel irrationally alienated by his expectations of my knowledge. This is my main issue with AEW as a whole. It's main storyline depends on the viewer watching NJPW 10 years ago. Many of the others expect you to watch both Darks as well as BTE every week. They reward the hardcore fan and leave most of the casuals lost.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,690
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 23, 2021 14:56:07 GMT -5
Plus as a casual viewer of AEW I feel irrationally alienated by his expectations of my knowledge. This is my main issue with AEW as a whole. It's main storyline depends on the viewer watching NJPW 10 years ago. Many of the others expect you to watch both Darks as well as BTE every week. They reward the hardcore fan and leave most of the casuals lost. I really have to disagree here. As I wasn't a huge watcher of New Japan 10 years ago and that doesn't mean I can't understand Super Elite are a big deal. You also dont need to watch a ton of BTE or the Youtube Shows to get storylines or what's going on and they recap a lot of important things that happen there anyway when it's prudent to do so. Now watching those things are definitely a bonus, but when it comes to following the storylines being presented, I don't feel lost or out of the loop witnessing them on Dynamite if I had just watched Dynamite.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,690
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 23, 2021 15:03:31 GMT -5
I feel like I’m open minded to opposing opinions, or at least breaking down barriers of opening myself, but the words “smarky Todd Grisham” being associates with Excalibur is making me irrationally twitch. We already had a commentary team without Excalibur last year for like three weeks, with JR and Tony being the main guys and Taz and Jericho being kinda rotated in and out. FAN was pretty open about how horrible it was and how clear it was that Excalibur held the commentary booth together. The fact this is turning into a depreciation thread about him of all people is also making me extremely confused considering how much he has earned his spot here. We've also seen a Tony Schiavonie lead booth on Elevation and as much as I love Tony as a color guy he literally keeps calling moves wrong. He's great as a color guy, but without Excalibur's analysis and mind he's calling Michinoku Drivers Canadian Destroyers. That's not even counting how many people regard Taz and Excalibur on DARK as the funnest commentary duo in the business currently. Excalibur's invaluable to any booth. He's not perfect and he himself would probably tell you he is always learning and trying to better himself, but we have seen almost every Excaliburless example of commentary on AEW and it really lacks...
|
|
|
Post by toodarkmark on Apr 23, 2021 15:23:31 GMT -5
I haven't checked in this thread for a minute, but Excaliber won Announcer of the Year for a reason. If people don't like Excaliber, after he won an award for what he does, that's not a problem with Excaliber, it's the problem with the people.
And please don't come back with "It's my opinion and Meltzer is wrong" business. The awards are voted on by readers, and if your opinion is somehow different than a lot of fans, that's not the problem of the talent, that's just your preferences do not mix with what people want to see.
|
|
|
Post by toodarkmark on Apr 23, 2021 15:25:06 GMT -5
Plus as a casual viewer of AEW I feel irrationally alienated by his expectations of my knowledge. This is my main issue with AEW as a whole. It's main storyline depends on the viewer watching NJPW 10 years ago. Many of the others expect you to watch both Darks as well as BTE every week. They reward the hardcore fan and leave most of the casuals lost. This is such a weird take. Google something if you don't know it. Watch Dark and BTE. Look up stuff on Youtube. Complaining about not being spoonfed information everytime you turn on tv is just obnoxious. You should watch something else. Edit: You don't have to have watched New Japan 10 years ago to understand anything about their main storyline. What aspect of it doesn't make sense? That people were teammates and friends somewhere? That's some weird concept that requires watching NJPW? What part of this week's TV show would be too diffiult for a casual to watch, that would have been helped by watching Dark or BTE?
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Apr 23, 2021 15:29:11 GMT -5
This is my main issue with AEW as a whole. It's main storyline depends on the viewer watching NJPW 10 years ago. Many of the others expect you to watch both Darks as well as BTE every week. They reward the hardcore fan and leave most of the casuals lost. This is such a weird take. Google something if you don't know it. Watch Dark and BTE. Look up stuff on Youtube. Complaining about not being spoonfed information everytime you turn on tv is just obnoxious. You should watch something else. Eh, it's a fair thing complaint that AEW keeps most of the storyline progression to Dynamite and then treats the hours of extra content as required background knowledge.
|
|
|
Post by toodarkmark on Apr 23, 2021 15:37:49 GMT -5
This is such a weird take. Google something if you don't know it. Watch Dark and BTE. Look up stuff on Youtube. Complaining about not being spoonfed information everytime you turn on tv is just obnoxious. You should watch something else. Eh, it's a fair thing complaint that AEW keeps most of the storyline progression to Dynamite and then treats the hours of extra content as required background knowledge. So watch it. It's not a fair complaint that people say "I only want to watch one show, and not all of them." Watch all the shows, if it's really troublesome, look it up online. Why should they reward people for not watching their other shows? It's like reading Justice League and being angry that they reference something that happened in a Superman comic. "I ONLY WANT THINGS IN THIS ONE COMIC!" This has always been the same in wrestling, ONE show isn't going to tell you everything that happened on the other shows. Dark and BTE are SUPER easy to watch, they're free on youtube. BTE is 15 minutes. Like give me an example of one thing that happened this week on Dynamite, that would only make sense if you watched Dark and BTE?
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,777
Member is Online
|
Post by Dub H on Apr 23, 2021 15:43:32 GMT -5
I just watch BTE and Dynamite with a focus,I usually watch one Dark Match or Two and I dont really feel like I need anything from what I miss,or what I watch.
The Dark Order -Hangman Saga DEFINITELY improved from watching BTE but it wasnt a mandatory progression to watch,it just went more in depth
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Apr 23, 2021 15:48:50 GMT -5
I only watch Dynamite and BTE every so often and I don't have much of any problems of keeping up with storylines or feel out of the loop. After years of watching wrestling that treats me, the viewer, like a complete idiot that needs constant hand-holding, I like watching a product where they assume I actually have the intelligence to figure out stuff on my own.
|
|
pinja
Unicron
Posts: 2,996
|
Post by pinja on Apr 23, 2021 16:03:06 GMT -5
AEW benefits from critique being normalized. Viewers' opinions and feelings must neither be well-founded nor seamless in order to be valuable. Being called lazy or obnoxious for it doesn't help, because it assumes the critique comes from a place of malice. Most wrestling fans don't want AEW to fail, even if they don't like it or parts of it.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,690
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 23, 2021 16:07:52 GMT -5
I only watch Dynamite and BTE every so often and I don't have much of any problems of keeping up with storylines or feel out of the loop. After years of watching wrestling that treats me, the viewer, like a complete idiot that needs constant hand-holding, I like watching a product where they assume I actually have the intelligence to figure out stuff on my own. Plus DARK and Elevation have good stuff, and people recommend casual watchers to go and see some of those matches and moments. It's why sometimes when we get a "Thunder Rosa has vanished" take we raise our hands and are like "She not only had a promo on Dynamite but has had like four matches on DARK and Elevation since the Baker match which is why she's ranked third" You don't even necessarily have to watch the shows to understand what's going on to know certain wrestlers are existing there and doing things there. Does watching Elevation maybe help you with smaller rivalries and buildup of new talent that appear on Dynamite like JD Drake? Yeah sure. Do you mandatorily need to watch to get how good JD Drake is? No, because he shows you how good he is, and he did when he fought Darby, turned a ton of FAN peoples heads who don't watch the Youtube shows in that match. Also Nemeth/Bononi/Drake's promos are well worth searching out from those shows, they're great. DARK and Elevation are to experiment with things and either introduce us to new talents and sometimes new partnerships which they intermingle into Dynamite. Ego and Sky formed on Elevation, they cut promos together on Dynamite, hung out together during segments watching Darby on Dynamite, then they attacked Darby and laid him out. You didn't need to watch Elevation to understand Sky and Page being together because they still showed they had formed an alliance on Dynamite. You could however still watch their matches on Elevation as a bonus to see how they work as a team. AEW doesnt try and insult your intelligence or also try to be pompous in ways you need to understand something happened here to get it on the main show, but it does in fact reward people who take the time out to tune in to their programs, while simultniously not treating their audience like garbage if they do not. That's insanely hard to do from a writing and booking standpoint, but they've done a nice job of it imo.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,690
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 23, 2021 16:12:28 GMT -5
AEW benefits from critique being normalized. Viewers' opinions and feelings must neither be well-founded nor seamless in order to be valuable. Being called lazy or obnoxious for it doesn't help, because it assumes the critique comes from a place of malice. Most wrestling fans don't want AEW to fail, even if they don't like it or parts of it. I personally just don't agree that AEW is intentionally trying to take peoples knowledge for granted in terms of understanding what's happening, as they very much try and build things up for casuals to get along with what is great wrestling on the shows. I howeer will not call people lazy or obnoxious if they either do not want to watch the secondary shows or BTE, as long as they're respectful about their viewpoints I have zero reason to escalate. In the end FAN is a very small sample size of wrestling opinions, but like any place else those opinions can be extremely varied where not everyone feels the same way, and imo that's ok, it's just a matter of keeping discussions civil and not taking it personally where sometimes things can hit a snag. Not just here, not just with wrestling, in the wide scheme of things tbh.
|
|
|
Post by One-Armed Drummer of Defrebel on Apr 23, 2021 16:17:14 GMT -5
I feel like I’m open minded to opposing opinions, or at least breaking down barriers of opening myself, but the words “smarky Todd Grisham” being associates with Excalibur is making me irrationally twitch. They both have voices like friendly pizza guys to me. Like, it was either him or Scott Stanford.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,690
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 23, 2021 16:17:55 GMT -5
I feel like I’m open minded to opposing opinions, or at least breaking down barriers of opening myself, but the words “smarky Todd Grisham” being associates with Excalibur is making me irrationally twitch. They both have voices like friendly pizza guys to me. Like, it was either him or Scott Stanford. I thought you liked Pizza! My entire FAN existence is a lie!
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Apr 23, 2021 16:20:32 GMT -5
I feel like I’m open minded to opposing opinions, or at least breaking down barriers of opening myself, but the words “smarky Todd Grisham” being associates with Excalibur is making me irrationally twitch. They both have voices like friendly pizza guys to me. Like, it was either him or Scott Stanford. Oh, for that aspect, I’ll accept that. And now I want Scott Stanford to sign with AEW because I love that dude.
|
|
|
Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 23, 2021 16:22:37 GMT -5
They both have voices like friendly pizza guys to me. Like, it was either him or Scott Stanford. Oh, for that aspect, I’ll accept that. And now I want Scott Stanford to sign with AEW because I love that dude. He'll come in as Scott Jacksonville.
|
|
|
Post by toodarkmark on Apr 23, 2021 16:22:57 GMT -5
AEW benefits from critique being normalized. Viewers' opinions and feelings must neither be well-founded nor seamless in order to be valuable. Being called lazy or obnoxious for it doesn't help, because it assumes the critique comes from a place of malice. Most wrestling fans don't want AEW to fail, even if they don't like it or parts of it. Saying a big problem with AEW is that their storytelling can not be encapsulated in 2 hours a week, and refusing to watch additional storytelling, is obnoxious to me. Their storytelling is one of the best things about them. Long term, nuanced, layered. It's not for everyone. But it is not a valid critique if it's part of the draw of the company. Invalidating BTE and Dark to make Dynamite a vacuum is not something that makes the company better, it's a preference. Edit: So as not to make this anything it's not. Not watching Dark and BTE is normal, many people don't, and that's a preference. Saying that Dark and BTE existing is a problem, and that not everything makes sense on Dynamite because of it, is obnoxious, when people have so many other resources to fill in the gaps.
|
|
Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 234,690
|
Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 23, 2021 16:23:10 GMT -5
They both have voices like friendly pizza guys to me. Like, it was either him or Scott Stanford. Oh, for that aspect, I’ll accept that. And now I want Scott Stanford to sign with AEW because I love that dude. Scott Stanford was incredibly underrated, and I loved his stuff with Ryder at the time.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Apr 23, 2021 16:24:21 GMT -5
Oh, for that aspect, I’ll accept that. And now I want Scott Stanford to sign with AEW because I love that dude. He'll come in as Scott Jacksonville. MAKE IT HAPPEN! I mean, it can’t because he mostly hosts a news show in New York BUT STILL!
|
|
Peeetah
Hank Scorpio
BANG
Posts: 5,383
|
Post by Peeetah on Apr 23, 2021 16:33:43 GMT -5
I agree it's tome for him to go but please don't replace him with Mauro, JR I can sort of just tune out Mauro is so obnoxious it actively ruins shit.
|
|