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Post by polarbearpete on May 7, 2021 8:43:20 GMT -5
Jericho’s never really been a top ring worker guy to me. He’s always been a steady, dependable hand. A sixth guy in a six man match. His value has always been more as a mouthpiece. Even in WCW. Not many of his matches were “must see”. But promos like when he introduced all the competitors in that battle Royal or “the 1001 moves of Jericho” were must see. In WWF/E he was a steady mid-card hand and the only really good match was against HBK at Wrestlemania XIX. I’ll always give him credit for one thing: he was always the one guy who’d ALWAYS wrestle the Monday after a pay per view. The main-event guys *cough*Triple H*cough* would just cut a promo or something. What I’m trying to get at is he was never the top guy in the ring even in his prime. So now that he’s past his prime it’s expected that he not look very good. Plus 25+ of being that guy who always wrestled every night is obviously taking it’s toll. I agree that he’s not Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels in the ring but I think you’re selling him very short by saying that the match at 19 with HBK was his only very good match. He’s had tons of 4 stars-plus matches. A quick flip through just his WWE career and I counted over 40 4-star matches.
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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on May 7, 2021 9:09:58 GMT -5
I find him more entertaining that 3/5ths of the AEW champions (soon to be 4/5ths of the AEW champions I think) so no. No it isn't.
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adamclark52
El Dandy
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Post by adamclark52 on May 7, 2021 15:58:26 GMT -5
Jericho’s never really been a top ring worker guy to me. He’s always been a steady, dependable hand. A sixth guy in a six man match. His value has always been more as a mouthpiece. Even in WCW. Not many of his matches were “must see”. But promos like when he introduced all the competitors in that battle Royal or “the 1001 moves of Jericho” were must see. In WWF/E he was a steady mid-card hand and the only really good match was against HBK at Wrestlemania XIX. I’ll always give him credit for one thing: he was always the one guy who’d ALWAYS wrestle the Monday after a pay per view. The main-event guys *cough*Triple H*cough* would just cut a promo or something. What I’m trying to get at is he was never the top guy in the ring even in his prime. So now that he’s past his prime it’s expected that he not look very good. Plus 25+ of being that guy who always wrestled every night is obviously taking it’s toll. I agree that he’s not Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels in the ring but I think you’re selling him very short by saying that the match at 19 with HBK was his only very good match. He’s had tons of 4 stars-plus matches. A quick flip through just his WWE career and I counted over 40 4-star matches. I’d like to see your list, no pun intended
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Post by polarbearpete on May 7, 2021 16:10:05 GMT -5
I agree that he’s not Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels in the ring but I think you’re selling him very short by saying that the match at 19 with HBK was his only very good match. He’s had tons of 4 stars-plus matches. A quick flip through just his WWE career and I counted over 40 4-star matches. I’d like to see your list, no pun intended www.profightdb.com/wrestler-star-ratings/chris-jericho-296.html?res=2000
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2021 16:29:52 GMT -5
I can think of plenty of great Jericho matches over the years but personally I wouldn't put the Mania 19 one on there. It's basically just 15 minutes of Michaels making Jericho's whole moveset look like shit then 7 minutes of him making his own moveset look like shit then winning. At no point during it does Jericho actually look like he has a chance of winning with anything he does.
That's always been my biggest problem with Jericho in the ring I think; his big moves over the years have been pretty much universally diluted to the point of being absolutely useless. It's a trap he's fallen into again and again and again, though to his credit thus far he's avoided letting that happen with the Judas Effect.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2021 16:58:50 GMT -5
Jericho’s never really been a top ring worker guy to me. He’s always been a steady, dependable hand. A sixth guy in a six man match. His value has always been more as a mouthpiece. Even in WCW. Not many of his matches were “must see”. But promos like when he introduced all the competitors in that battle Royal or “the 1001 moves of Jericho” were must see. In WWF/E he was a steady mid-card hand and the only really good match was against HBK at Wrestlemania XIX. I’ll always give him credit for one thing: he was always the one guy who’d ALWAYS wrestle the Monday after a pay per view. The main-event guys *cough*Triple H*cough* would just cut a promo or something. What I’m trying to get at is he was never the top guy in the ring even in his prime. So now that he’s past his prime it’s expected that he not look very good. Plus 25+ of being that guy who always wrestled every night is obviously taking it’s toll. I would agree that the HBK match is his only truly great match at Wrestlemania. He doesn't have a great track record there and a lot of his biggest matches ended up being underwhelming (HHH, Edge, Punk, Owens). In general though, he's had way more great matches. Vs HBK at No Mercy 08. Vs HHH at Fully Loaded 00. Vs Rey at The Bash 09. Vs Rock at No Mercy 01. Some of the Benoit matches in 00-01 and the match when they won the tag titles from Austin and HHH. I think he's in like the Edge/Christian/CM Punk category of someone who's consistently good and sometimes great rather than the real elite in-ring level guys like HBK/Benoit/Angle (2000-2003 Angle anyway) he's sometimes grouped in with.
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nate5054
Hank Scorpio
Lucky to be alive in the Chris Jericho Era
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Post by nate5054 on May 7, 2021 21:43:17 GMT -5
This will probably be his last year as a featured full-time wrestler, he'll call it a day within the next year and move onto commmentary while working a rare match. I hope so. He's a great commentator, one of my favorites (in a shockingly short time). Between him, Big Show, and if hopefully Joe gets hired, that's a hell of a color crew of all time great wrestlers there who can all work the occasional match, though I get that Joe may want to work more at first
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pinja
Unicron
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Post by pinja on May 8, 2021 0:07:17 GMT -5
Jericho was always more sloppy than the elite athletes around him and did things he probably shouldn't have done. Like the lionsault, he was never good at it, so his botch the other day didn't look out of place. Also him very audibly calling spots isn't something new, he did it in his last WWE runs as well and it bugged me. He's just aged terribly since his very last WWE run and while he still knows how to structure a match, he seems to lose track of his own abilities. I don't enjoy watching him wrestling at all these days.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on May 8, 2021 14:54:25 GMT -5
Jericho was always more sloppy than the elite athletes around him and did things he probably shouldn't have done. Like the lionsault, he was never good at it, so his botch the other day didn't look out of place. Also him very audibly calling spots isn't something new, he did it in his last WWE runs as well and it bugged me. He's just aged terribly since his very last WWE run and while he still knows how to structure a match, he seems to lose track of his own abilities. I don't enjoy watching him wrestling at all these days. I've literally only seen one botched Lionsault and it was in WCW.
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y4j1981
Dennis Stamp
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Post by y4j1981 on May 9, 2021 16:02:13 GMT -5
Like the lionsault, he was never good at it, so his botch the other day didn't look out of place. Huh? I get people liking who they like and who they don't like but how is this true?
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wankah
Don Corleone
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Post by wankah on May 9, 2021 18:08:28 GMT -5
I dunno what it is with this fella, but I enjoy the f*** out of him, when he's on his game, but when he's not, I'd wish he'd bugger right off of my screen. It doesn't even have anything to do with his real life views on stuff or anything. How ever, having said that, once he's off, I'll see that overweight red bastard, while he's on, I'll see that veteran who has some gas in the rank left.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 9, 2021 19:33:52 GMT -5
Like the lionsault, he was never good at it So now we're just saying things to bait reactions now right? Because there's no way you actually said this and believe it's true.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2021 19:49:30 GMT -5
Jericho is one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. In every category, ring talent, promos, it factor, longevity, etc. He could have been even bigger had Triple H not cut the legs out from under him every time he was about to hit the next level.
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pinja
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Post by pinja on May 10, 2021 0:11:40 GMT -5
Like the lionsault, he was never good at it So now we're just saying things to bait reactions now right? Because there's no way you actually said this and believe it's true. Others have the decency to make me aware of maybe false memory. You however decided to not acknowledge me (I'm a single person, not a "we") and presume childish motives behind my post.
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pinja
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Post by pinja on May 10, 2021 0:18:51 GMT -5
Jericho was always more sloppy than the elite athletes around him and did things he probably shouldn't have done. Like the lionsault, he was never good at it, so his botch the other day didn't look out of place. Also him very audibly calling spots isn't something new, he did it in his last WWE runs as well and it bugged me. He's just aged terribly since his very last WWE run and while he still knows how to structure a match, he seems to lose track of his own abilities. I don't enjoy watching him wrestling at all these days. I've literally only seen one botched Lionsault and it was in WCW. I've rewatched a compilation of his lionsault. He regularly overshot or undershot, but not big deal. He also often didn't get proper height, so he had to basically do a back handspring like when he did it to Guevara. I can't tell if he landed on his head doing it. If he did, it's a botch - if he didn't, it's at least ugly.
I'm not knocking Jericho's in ring skills as a whole. I'm just saying that being a highflyer was never his calling card and it often showed in his execution compared to contemporaries. He settled down with a more grounded style anyway.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 10, 2021 1:32:29 GMT -5
So now we're just saying things to bait reactions now right? Because there's no way you actually said this and believe it's true. Others have the decency to make me aware of maybe false memory. You however decided to not acknowledge me (I'm a single person, not a "we") and presume childish motives behind my post. Forgive me if my first post overstepped and was too crude but sometimes posts like that just make me do a double take. I apologize if I upset you. Just saying "Jericho was never good at the Lionsault" is a very wide statement, especially when presented as factual in your statement, which is why it felt so off the wall. Fair enough that you misremembered though.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on May 10, 2021 4:23:41 GMT -5
It really doesn't matter how his in ring work has slowed down or is not what it was like 5-10 years ago, his promo work makes me want to watch him anyway.
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Bad Moon
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Post by Bad Moon on May 10, 2021 4:55:09 GMT -5
I will be perfectly happy if they use the B&G fall as a kayfabe excuse to give Jericho some time off and move the spotlight in the Inner Circle on Sammy.
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Post by eJm on May 10, 2021 5:15:52 GMT -5
I will be perfectly happy if they use the B&G fall as a kayfabe excuse to give Jericho some time off and move the spotlight in the Inner Circle on Sammy. I'd be shocked if that wasn't the intention with that, to be honest.
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lucas_lee
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Post by lucas_lee on May 10, 2021 8:15:31 GMT -5
I agree that he’s not Bret Hart/Shawn Michaels in the ring but I think you’re selling him very short by saying that the match at 19 with HBK was his only very good match. He’s had tons of 4 stars-plus matches. A quick flip through just his WWE career and I counted over 40 4-star matches. I’d like to see your list, no pun intended Jericho series with HBK during Serious Jericho run. His feud with Rey Mysterio during serious Jericho had great matches. Y2J and AJ Styles vs the New Day on RAW Jericho vs The Rock Royal Rumble 2003 Jericho vs Triple H Fully Loaded Any Jericho vs Benoit match Jericho vs Dean Malenko And thats off the top of my head. Hes a pretty talented performer and is in the top 10 for me (even with his crappy politics)
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