Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 18:00:26 GMT -5
It's fun to see the numbers and realize that AEW is growing, but I try not to read too deep into them, because in the end TNT/Turner are the ones who make the final call. It's super cool to see them be #1 in the demo, though. It means Wrestling finally feels big like it did over 20 years ago. It will probably never reach the cultural heights it did then, but it does mean there's a clear audience for it and it's not just relegated to kids and hardcore fans. If AEW only grows and stays consistent, TNT isn't going to have many reasons to cut it from their programming block, and frankly I don't see it happening. I see a major extension in the works. Oh I think TNT is over the moon about AEW. You don't get Shaq in a wrestling match if you're the redheaded stepchild, and the fact that they actively want Darby around and in the mix shows that they're paying very close attention. TNT/Turner is invested in AEW, and it's doing well for them. Only thing I was saying is that while it's fun to look at numbers and play around with hypotheticals, the only entity with an opinion that matters is TNT.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 6, 2021 18:54:46 GMT -5
If AEW only grows and stays consistent, TNT isn't going to have many reasons to cut it from their programming block, and frankly I don't see it happening. I see a major extension in the works. Oh I think TNT is over the moon about AEW. You don't get Shaq in a wrestling match if you're the redheaded stepchild, and the fact that they actively want Darby around and in the mix shows that they're paying very close attention. TNT/Turner is invested in AEW, and it's doing well for them. Only thing I was saying is that while it's fun to look at numbers and play around with hypotheticals, the only entity with an opinion that matters is TNT. Oh for sure, and that's why I am sure AEW doesn't sweat critics as much as critics like to think they might. They're openly always trying to improve on their lacking points anyway, which is more than I can say about others
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Welfare Willis
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Post by Welfare Willis on May 6, 2021 19:21:12 GMT -5
There's a certain irony that AEW first show was Blood and Guts. Which is a reference to a comment from Vince McMahon.
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AEW19
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Post by AEW19 on May 6, 2021 19:23:19 GMT -5
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on May 6, 2021 19:51:14 GMT -5
Weird that it doesn’t mention the special match that gave last night’s edition its name.
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Blade
Don Corleone
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Post by Blade on May 6, 2021 20:28:22 GMT -5
I'm still waiting to meet someone from this mythical "casual audience". Every wrestling fan I have met in the past 20 years is someone super into it. People that like it absolutely love it, and people that aren't into it think it's stupid and don't watch. I don't even understand IWC being a term anymore since everyone is online. It's not like there are millions of casual wrestling fans running around that don't use the Internet. I've met some. And fans always overestimate their size of the hardcore fanbase. Most people just watch stuff and do not talk about it online because watching is sufficient for them.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 6, 2021 20:30:23 GMT -5
I'm still waiting to meet someone from this mythical "casual audience". Every wrestling fan I have met in the past 20 years is someone super into it. People that like it absolutely love it, and people that aren't into it think it's stupid and don't watch. I don't even understand IWC being a term anymore since everyone is online. It's not like there are millions of casual wrestling fans running around that don't use the Internet. I've met some. And fans always overestimate their size of the hardcore fanbase. Most people just watch stuff and do not talk about it online because watching is sufficient for them. In college,at peak Shield time, I had a bunch of friends who watched wrestling,everyone had a fav shield member,and we were all gaming nerds. yet none of then,except me,talked about it online.
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Post by Cyno on May 6, 2021 21:06:17 GMT -5
AEW gotta figure out what to do to improve the female teen demo(it went down from .13 to .10). Do they though? Like I get that in modern society everything is for everyone, so clearly there are teenage girls that watch the show and they should care about every fan. That being said, when they are writing these shows, I highly doubt the thought process is "This is great, but how is this going to make teenage girls watch?" It's like expecting Lifetime to say "These movies are great, but we need to get more teenage boys watching them." They certainly CAN and there's nothing wrong with that, but not everything has to cater to every demographic. At least it isn't like certain shows on certain Warner networks that prove really popular with a young female audience, but because said demo isn't buying action figures, they cancel it.
(no I'm still not bitter over how Cartoon Network did Young Justice dirty why do you ask?)
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Post by HMARK Center on May 6, 2021 21:15:00 GMT -5
It really is important that AEW is drawing a younger audience, on average. Being #1 on cable for your night is obviously a positive no matter how you slice it for both AEW and WWE, but AEW having an audience that skews a bit younger doesn’t go unnoticed by networks or advertisers, it tells them the long term potential for growth is real.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 21:26:55 GMT -5
It really is important that AEW is drawing a younger audience, on average. Being #1 on cable for your night is obviously a positive no matter how you slice it for both AEW and WWE, but AEW having an audience that skews a bit younger doesn’t go unnoticed by networks or advertisers, it tells them the long term potential for growth is real. While a lot of it undoubtedly due to the presentation and the booking, I legit think the biggest thing that for helping that youth market is the investment into guys that haven't been on a major stage in the US prior to joining AEW. Heyman is Heyman, but I think he had a point when he said if he were booking TNA, he'd have one legend and that legend would be there to legitimize and then make the new talent. That's basically what Jericho is. Yeah, you have a few ex-WWE guys there too like Mox, Miro, and FTR, but AEW is thankfully getting those guys while they're still in their prime and can go. That all being said, you can tell homegrown talent is on the agenda, because look who is constantly scraping the upper-card and being touted as big deals: Jungle Boy, Orange Cassidy, Darby Allin, MJF, Fenix, Pentagon. Brand identity and differentiation from the competition is important, and I'm glad the foundation is being laid for who's gonna be big in 2025, not just today.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 21:31:30 GMT -5
I'm still waiting to meet someone from this mythical "casual audience". Every wrestling fan I have met in the past 20 years is someone super into it. People that like it absolutely love it, and people that aren't into it think it's stupid and don't watch. I don't even understand IWC being a term anymore since everyone is online. It's not like there are millions of casual wrestling fans running around that don't use the Internet. I've met some. And fans always overestimate their size of the hardcore fanbase. Most people just watch stuff and do not talk about it online because watching is sufficient for them. I don't overestimate the size of the hardcore fanbase. Wrestling actually seems like kind of a niche thing these days. Granted, that audience is big enough to make it worthwhile for some channels to air it, but it's not something I think of as popular in the least bit. I'm a hardcore comic book nerd too, and if anything that hardcore fanbase is shrinking. I'm also a big G.I. Joe fan. Even the most popular G.I. Joe forum isn't that active. So no, I don't assume that because I am a hardcore fan of something that the hardcore fanbase is larger than it is. And most people do in fact talk about what they watch online. One of the primary uses of the Internet is that people use it to talk about the entertainment they are into. That doesn't mean everyone is a member of a separate forum for each individual thing they like. For example, this is the only forum I post at. I talk about everything that interests me here in off topic. And on other forums, there's usually a wrestling thread in their general discussion, tv shows, or sports section. Every wrestling fan is part of the IWC now.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 21:34:53 GMT -5
I've met some. And fans always overestimate their size of the hardcore fanbase. Most people just watch stuff and do not talk about it online because watching is sufficient for them. In college,at peak Shield time, I had a bunch of friends who watched wrestling,everyone had a fav shield member,and we were all gaming nerds. yet none of then,except me,talked about it online. You were aware of everything these people talked about online and every website they were members of?
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 6, 2021 22:11:43 GMT -5
In college,at peak Shield time, I had a bunch of friends who watched wrestling,everyone had a fav shield member,and we were all gaming nerds. yet none of then,except me,talked about it online. You were aware of everything these people talked about online and every website they were members of? Being that I talked about wrestling and when I said about stuff from social media ,followed then on social media and they never brought subject from websites,news or anything besides what happened from TV Shows,yeh. There is this thing called conversations,where you can discover what people do and trade ideas.So dont come sassy at me.
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Blade
Don Corleone
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Post by Blade on May 6, 2021 22:12:39 GMT -5
I don't overestimate the size of the hardcore fanbase. Wrestling actually seems like kind of a niche thing these days. Granted, that audience is big enough to make it worthwhile for some channels to air it, but it's not something I think of as popular in the least bit. I'm a hardcore comic book nerd too, and if anything that hardcore fanbase is shrinking. I'm also a big G.I. Joe fan. Even the most popular G.I. Joe forum isn't that active. So no, I don't assume that because I am a hardcore fan of something that the hardcore fanbase is larger than it is. And most people do in fact talk about what they watch online. One of the primary uses of the Internet is that people use it to talk about the entertainment they are into. That doesn't mean everyone is a member of a separate forum for each individual thing they like. For example, this is the only forum I post at. I talk about everything that interests me here in off topic. And on other forums, there's usually a wrestling thread in their general discussion, tv shows, or sports section. Every wrestling fan is part of the IWC now. I could argue more, but let's first see what we're actually discussing: what is your evidence for this positive assertion that a) the hardcore fanbase is the entire fanbase of wrestling, and b) that most people discuss what they watch online? I assert that neither of those things are true. So far you've presented anecdotal evidence only (that you have not met anyone, etc.). My anecdote contradicts yours (I have met people, etc., and also I was part of the IWC and not posting about it anywhere until Christian signed with AEW). But the plural of anecdote is not data. So, what is the data you are drawing this firm conclusion from? Because there's not much point is just shouting "You're wrong" at each other. The burden of proof lies upon the positive assertion (though, just off the top of my head, my statements are backed up by clear industry belief of the composition of their demographics, the fact live crowd reactions and merchandise sales have historically quite frequently not matched the popularity or lack therof of wrestlers with the IWC, the fact that IWC forums even collectively are tiny fractions of the size of the audience that watches wrestling, and that other forms of entertainment with active online fanbases have been demonstrably shown that the "silent majority" is indeed just that).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 22:28:48 GMT -5
I don't overestimate the size of the hardcore fanbase. Wrestling actually seems like kind of a niche thing these days. Granted, that audience is big enough to make it worthwhile for some channels to air it, but it's not something I think of as popular in the least bit. I'm a hardcore comic book nerd too, and if anything that hardcore fanbase is shrinking. I'm also a big G.I. Joe fan. Even the most popular G.I. Joe forum isn't that active. So no, I don't assume that because I am a hardcore fan of something that the hardcore fanbase is larger than it is. And most people do in fact talk about what they watch online. One of the primary uses of the Internet is that people use it to talk about the entertainment they are into. That doesn't mean everyone is a member of a separate forum for each individual thing they like. For example, this is the only forum I post at. I talk about everything that interests me here in off topic. And on other forums, there's usually a wrestling thread in their general discussion, tv shows, or sports section. Every wrestling fan is part of the IWC now. I could argue more, but let's first see what we're actually discussing: what is your evidence for this positive assertion that a) the hardcore fanbase is the entire fanbase of wrestling, and b) that most people discuss what they watch online? I assert that neither of those things are true. So far you've presented anecdotal evidence only (that you have not met anyone, etc.). My anecdote contradicts yours (I have met people, etc., and also I was part of the IWC and not posting about it anywhere until Christian signed with AEW). But the plural of anecdote is not data. So, what is the data you are drawing this firm conclusion from? Because there's not much point is just shouting "You're wrong" at each other. The burden of proof lies upon the positive assertion (though, just off the top of my head, my statements are backed up by clear industry belief of the composition of their demographics, the fact live crowd reactions and merchandise sales have historically quite frequently not matched the popularity or lack therof of wrestlers with the IWC, the fact that IWC forums even collectively are tiny fractions of the size of the audience that watches wrestling, and that other forms of entertainment with active online fanbases have been demonstrably shown that the "silent majority" is indeed just that). You made a very good point and intelligently backed it up with a lot of ten dollar words. You do realize that it completely contradicts your statement that "fans always overestimate the size of the hardcore fanbase" though right? Your logic behind that statement, even when explained so eloquently and elegantly (I know how to unnecessarily use big words to sound smarter than I actually am too) is simply that you think you are right. You also disagreed that everyone is in the IWC, but then say you were always part of the IWC even before you started posting on wrestling message boards.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 22:32:14 GMT -5
You were aware of everything these people talked about online and every website they were members of? Being that I talked about wrestling and when I said about stuff from social media ,followed then on social media and they never brought subject from websites,news or anything besides what happened from TV Shows,yeh. There is this thing called conversations,where you can discover what people do and trade ideas.So dont come sassy at me. Thank you for explaining to me what a conversation is. I would be lost without you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 22:50:14 GMT -5
Good for them, the B&G match had a huge fight feel. I haven't been feeling AEW since like January and it got me to tune in. They should've got Buffer!
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Blade
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,943
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Post by Blade on May 6, 2021 22:56:32 GMT -5
You made a very good point and intelligently backed it up with a lot of ten dollar words. You do realize that it completely contradicts your statement that "fans always overestimate the size of the hardcore fanbase" though right? Your logic behind that statement, even when explained so eloquently and elegantly (I know how to unnecessarily use big words to sound smarter than I actually am too) is simply that you think you are right. You also disagreed that everyone is in the IWC, but then say you were always part of the IWC even before you started posting on wrestling message boards. I used precise words because I was trying to make precise points. I didn't use a single word that isn't part of my normal vocabulary, and I don't think I used words that were obscure or difficult to understand (but if I did, say so and I'll reword). Like, I get that you think I'm showing off or something but a) this is how I talk, particularly when debating a point, and b) I genuinely assume you are both capable of understanding everything I said, and replying in kind if you want to (which you were). So please don't take it as my trying to intellectually intimidate you; I give you (and everyone here, really) more credit than that. That I am in the IWC yet didn't post about it anywhere was simply an anecdotal contradiction to your "most people post about what they like online" assertion. Am I an anamoly? Hard to say without data. That I myself am part of the IWC does not in any way contradict my assertion that most fans are not in the IWC, as I am not "most fans". My logic is not "I think I'm right", although obviously I do or why would I be arguing? It is: "You made an assertion and seem firm in your conviction. So, please present your evidence for it and I'll assess that rather than just saying 'you're wrong' again." So I'm asking again: do you actually have evidence beyond your anecdotal experiences?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2021 0:15:24 GMT -5
Personally, I think that casual wrestling fans exist, insofar as there are people who watch wrestling on television, and would probably go to a show if it came to their town, but they don’t necessarily follow on a week-to-week basis, and certainly wouldn’t consider it their number one hobby like a lot of us would.
That said, I don’t think the white whale “casual fan” as the term is usually used in the context of television ratings actually truly exists - I.e. the person who has never watched wrestling a day in their life except for a passing knowledge that it’s where John Cena, Batista, and the Rock got their starts, but somehow is expected to just magically become a wrestling fan because AEW didn’t use a crash pad or whatever.
Wrestling is a super niche thing in 2021. Most things are in this day and age of instant streaming entertainment. If you don’t have a predisposition to enjoy wrestling, you’re probably not going to randomly decide to watch wrestling, regardless of how great a product AEW, WWE, or any other company is putting out. I feel like there’s always been this metric of “success” for a wrestling company that is the extent to which it can appeal to non-fans. But, that’s so bizarre to me...the measure of success of a wrestling company should be how much wrestling fans like it. I swear wrestling is the only “fandom” that cares so deeply about how it is perceived by non-fans. I’ve always found that bizarre.
Anyway, Im kind of rambling, so the TL;DR is casual wrestling fans are totally a real thing; the “casual fan” as in a non-wrestling fan who can magically be converted into a wrestling fan really doesn’t exist in my opinion.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 7, 2021 0:38:38 GMT -5
Personally, I think that casual wrestling fans exist, insofar as there are people who watch wrestling on television, and would probably go to a show if it came to their town, but they don’t necessarily follow on a week-to-week basis, and certainly wouldn’t consider it their number one hobby like a lot of us would. That said, I don’t think the white whale “casual fan” as the term is usually used in the context of television ratings actually truly exists - I.e. the person who has never watched wrestling a day in their life except for a passing knowledge that it’s where John Cena, Batista, and the Rock got their starts, but somehow is expected to just magically become a wrestling fan because AEW didn’t use a crash pad or whatever. Wrestling is a super niche thing in 2021. Most things are in this day and age of instant streaming entertainment. If you don’t have a predisposition to enjoy wrestling, you’re probably not going to randomly decide to watch wrestling, regardless of how great a product AEW, WWE, or any other company is putting out. I feel like there’s always been this metric of “success” for a wrestling company that is the extent to which it can appeal to non-fans. But, that’s so bizarre to me...the measure of success of a wrestling company should be how much wrestling fans like it. I swear wrestling is the only “fandom” that cares so deeply about how it is perceived by non-fans. I’ve always found that bizarre. Anyway, Im kind of rambling, so the TL;DR is casual wrestling fans are totally a real thing; the “casual fan” as in a non-wrestling fan who can magically be converted into a wrestling fan really doesn’t exist in my opinion. They exist to an extent, I think, given you get people who talk about becoming wrestlers when they found out indies even exist after watching WWE, and wow, some guy in their town has a wrestling school, and then they get started, or stuff like that, but yeah, it's a rarity. Wrestling is pulling in new fans, but most of the ones I see who are new get into it not due to stumbling on it, but through connections to other geekery. Like, I've known a lot of people who were anime or gaming fans who ended up gravitating to wrestling due to how bombastic it is, something they were already into in media. Colorful characters, wild storylines, etc, made them curious. You do also get people who end up curious about the technical side and are fascinated with that, since there's just not really anything else quite like that, but I see more people turn their heads initially for a Luchasaurus than a Zack Sabre, Jr, with the latter types being someone they will come to appreciate once the toes are already dipped into the wrestling pool, if it's going to happen. It's not like it's impossible, but people don't tend to channel surf in the same way they used to, so discoverability takes on entirely new forms.
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