Zelina Vega was at the PC *She has Returned to TV*

[Legion]

Jul 5, 2021 16:39:24 GMT -5 Feargus McReddit said:

Jul 5, 2021 16:33:32 GMT -5 Legion said:

Cancel culture shouldnt be a thing, but the notion IS a thing now. The context may be totally stolen, and the original intention lost, but the people who did pick it up have shouted it loud enough that it's become a real thing that is believe by some people, on either side of societal or political spectrums, and therefore is imbued with a level of power and can, and has, been 'weaponised' because of that.

The fact there are enough people that believe it is happening, and that some people recognise the influence they can wield doing it (rightly or wrongly, and it happens both ways) means we do now have a 'cancel culture', even if it's not what either side really want or think it is.

All of this is honestly excuse-making and bowing to those people instead of trying to call things out as they are and it doesn't answer if you actually believe cancel culture as real as much as say "Hey, people use it, it's ok for me to do so too" which is just insane sounding.

And if cancel culture is a thing, and as I and others have said it's not, it hasn't exactly got a great track record of actually doing the job.

But that is exactly what has happened, the original intent is still there; people are being called out who need to be called out for things that need to change.

But, there are also people being called out for things that dont stack up and dont meet the criteria to lose their carers, but people are doing it anyway (just go on Twitter, it's full of people hash tagging at each other for all sorts of real, implied or false slights). People believe they can influence things if they can trend, so that power is there.

And behind some of that are people who recognise this influence and are using it - some times to do real good work, and sometimes to cover stuff up, cause dissention or cause enough disinformation or confusion you can attempt to excuse any internet attempts to criticise as just cranks online.

It isn't excuse making, it's recognising what is going on. It isn't insanity to, on recognising that, want to see it used to do something you would consider positive - that after all is the very nature of the original idea behind to, to make things better.

Just what people consider better is going to be different based on your own view.

What is real or not doesnt matter, what people believe and you can do with that is what matters and right now, people believe it, so that means it's usable.

[Feargus McReddit]

Jul 5, 2021 16:55:27 GMT -5 Legion said:

Jul 5, 2021 16:39:24 GMT -5 Feargus McReddit said:

All of this is honestly excuse-making and bowing to those people instead of trying to call things out as they are and it doesn't answer if you actually believe cancel culture as real as much as say "Hey, people use it, it's ok for me to do so too" which is just insane sounding.

And if cancel culture is a thing, and as I and others have said it's not, it hasn't exactly got a great track record of actually doing the job.

But that is exactly what has happened, the original intent is still there; people are being called out who need to be called out for things that need to change.

But, there are also people being called out for things that dont stack up and dont meet the criteria to lose their carers, but people are doing it anyway (just go on Twitter, it's full of people hash tagging at each other for all sorts of real, implied or false slights). People believe they can influence things if they can trend, so that power is there.

And behind some of that are people who recognise this influence and are using it - some times to do real good work, and sometimes to cover stuff up, cause dissention or cause enough disinformation or confusion you can attempt to excuse any internet attempts to criticise as just cranks online.

It isn't excuse making, it's recognising what is going on. It isn't insanity to, on recognising that, want to see it used to do something you would consider positive - that after all is the very nature of the original idea behind to, to make things better.

Just what people consider better is going to be different based on your own view.

What is real or not doesnt matter, what people believe and you can do with that is what matters and right now, people believe it, so that means it's usable.

I'm going to leave this thread the same way I came back to it.

I believed you were better than just believing in all this nonsense instead of calling it out like you do other stuff.

[polarbearpete]

I was with Dave as far as her tweet being too general, but he lost me a bit with calling her “f’ing stupid.” That wasn’t necessary and it gives people something to latch onto due to his checkered history of reporting on women.

[kingoftheindies]

See the issue I have with most of the issues anymore with any beef wrestlers have with Meltzer comes down to people saying "you didn't talk to me so keep my name out of your mouth " Meltzer responds with "this is what I said what part isn't true?" And the wrestler basically flipping Meltz off.

Like yeah he says stupid stuff but let's get mad at him for valid reasons.

It's like Alistar Black calling out dirt sheet writers for saying plans change and then mentioning all the angles that were pitched to him then plans changed. Dave commented on that on WOL and if Black would have called him out it would have looked stupid.

[EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese]

Jul 5, 2021 16:50:32 GMT -5 2 time pro bowler Fred Dryer said:

Jul 5, 2021 16:24:48 GMT -5 DrBackflipsHoffman said:

ah man not independent journalist sam roberts, he's gonna be devestated

Don't worry, in a couple years when Sam signs with AEW all will be forgiven.

He’s already there now, under the name “Jon Moxley” judging by his shaved head.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2021 16:55:27 GMT -5 Legion said:

Jul 5, 2021 16:39:24 GMT -5 Feargus McReddit said:

All of this is honestly excuse-making and bowing to those people instead of trying to call things out as they are and it doesn't answer if you actually believe cancel culture as real as much as say "Hey, people use it, it's ok for me to do so too" which is just insane sounding.

And if cancel culture is a thing, and as I and others have said it's not, it hasn't exactly got a great track record of actually doing the job.

But that is exactly what has happened, the original intent is still there; people are being called out who need to be called out for things that need to change.

But, there are also people being called out for things that dont stack up and dont meet the criteria to lose their carers, but people are doing it anyway (just go on Twitter, it's full of people hash tagging at each other for all sorts of real, implied or false slights). People believe they can influence things if they can trend, so that power is there.

And behind some of that are people who recognise this influence and are using it - some times to do real good work, and sometimes to cover stuff up, cause dissention or cause enough disinformation or confusion you can attempt to excuse any internet attempts to criticise as just cranks online.

It isn't excuse making, it's recognising what is going on. It isn't insanity to, on recognising that, want to see it used to do something you would consider positive - that after all is the very nature of the original idea behind to, to make things better.

Just what people consider better is going to be different based on your own view.

What is real or not doesnt matter, what people believe and you can do with that is what matters and right now, people believe it, so that means it's usable.

So, to summarise, you don't like cancel culture, but believe it exists, and should be used to fulfill your own opinions and perspective.

Thats f***ed, you know that right?

[kingoftheindies]

Here's the other issue pointed out by voices of wrestling.

twitter.com/voiceswrestling/status/1412137719040561154?s=19

And of course wrestling news sources like Bix, VOR, and Bryan Thurston (wrestling economics) are all pointing out where Zelina is in the wrong for going at Meltzer after his comments but Zelina won't go at them... hell Bix is a guy I think ends up being more critical of WWE then Meltz half the time but they won't call him out

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jul 5, 2021 16:58:06 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

I was with Dave as far as her tweet being too general, but he lost me a bit with calling her “f’ing stupid.” That wasn’t necessary and it gives people something to latch onto due to his checkered history of reporting on women.

My thing with Meltz is his human interaction skills are hot garbage especially when it comes to women 

I can see why people jump down his throat and some of it was warranted in the past for saying things he shouldn't have said. In this case, I think he could have sat it out but nothing worth jumping on him for in terms of trying to get him to f*** off

[Perd]

In a few months, Zelina will be saying that Dave  is  a journalist of impeccable integrity. And that he makes Studs Terkel look like Stephen Glass.

[Deleted]

Also for the record, Meltz has a tonne of issues and his history of reporting on women is the biggest of those. He's also reacting like a spoilt brat.

He's also not wrong. On this at least.

[Deleted]

To the idea of cancel culture I'll say this; in my opinion people can horrible f*** up but if they redeem themselves and make up for it then hey do that and you'll be good. I don't believe in canceling someone because they said one horrible thing you personally don't agree with, for me it's all about hey what can you do to make up for that. At the end of the day it's about being a good human being and while that depends on your idea of what a "good human being" is, there's generally a set of rules that most people agree with. To this Zelina and Meltzer thing I'll say that they both need to get off social media and keep on doing their thing. Meltzer's got a bad reputation towards going at women and some of Zelina's comments have been a bit rough even though I can see where she comes from partially. At the end of the day all it'll take is them doing their thing for a few weeks and people will move on and that's that.

This really ain't that big of a deal no matter how you cut it. You know it's a slow news week when we've got a wrestler vs Meltzer main event.

Like, gimme some more juicy stuff to talk about. Where's the "Vince McMahon thinks this bad thing about this wrestler" headlines? Where's this "I heard this guy is gonna get pushed soon and he's trash" headlines? I wanna see that rather than Wrestler vs Journalist XXXIV main event.

[Legion]

Jul 5, 2021 17:09:40 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

Jul 5, 2021 16:55:27 GMT -5 Legion said:

But that is exactly what has happened, the original intent is still there; people are being called out who need to be called out for things that need to change.

But, there are also people being called out for things that dont stack up and dont meet the criteria to lose their carers, but people are doing it anyway (just go on Twitter, it's full of people hash tagging at each other for all sorts of real, implied or false slights). People believe they can influence things if they can trend, so that power is there.

And behind some of that are people who recognise this influence and are using it - some times to do real good work, and sometimes to cover stuff up, cause dissention or cause enough disinformation or confusion you can attempt to excuse any internet attempts to criticise as just cranks online.

It isn't excuse making, it's recognising what is going on. It isn't insanity to, on recognising that, want to see it used to do something you would consider positive - that after all is the very nature of the original idea behind to, to make things better.

Just what people consider better is going to be different based on your own view.

What is real or not doesnt matter, what people believe and you can do with that is what matters and right now, people believe it, so that means it's usable.

So, to summarise, you don't like cancel culture, but believe it exists, and should be used to fulfill your own opinions and perspective.

Thats f***ed, you know that right?

Yes, I already said it was hypocritical.

I'd argue I never said I wanted it to fulfil my own perspective or opinion, rather I'd just not be upset if happened to someone I dislike, but I'm not shying away from it being a hypocritical stance.

[DrBackflipsHoffman]

I think ultimately what we need to remember from all of this is how good looking I am

[Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)]

Jul 5, 2021 17:17:39 GMT -5 @kn said:

To the idea of cancel culture I'll say this; in my opinion people can horrible f*** up but if they redeem themselves and make up for it then hey do that and you'll be good. I don't believe in canceling someone because they said one horrible thing you personally don't agree with, for me it's all about hey what can you do to make up for that. At the end of the day it's about being a good human being and while that depends on your idea of what a "good human being" is, there's generally a set of rules that most people agree with. To this Zelina and Meltzer thing I'll say that they both need to get off social media and keep on doing their thing. Meltzer's got a bad reputation towards going at women and some of Zelina's comments have been a bit rough even though I can see where she comes from partially. At the end of the day all it'll take is them doing their thing for a few weeks and people will move on and that's that.

This really ain't that big of a deal no matter how you cut it. You know it's a slow news week when we've got a wrestler vs Meltzer main event.

Like, gimme some more juicy stuff to talk about. Where's the "Vince McMahon things this bad thing about this wrestler" headlines? Where's this "I heard this guy is gonna get pushed soon and he's trash" headlines? I wanna see that rather than Wrestler vs Journalist XXXIV main event.

Yea, I pretty much agree with this

It only makes it "big news" because Zelina has become public enemy number 1 to some and Meltz has been public enemy number 1 to others. Both sides get shit on, nothing advances

Zelina in her bag now so she needs to fall back a bit 

[Final Countdown Jones]

Jul 5, 2021 17:12:42 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Here's the other issue pointed out by voices of wrestling.

And of course wrestling news sources like Bix, VOR, and Bryan Thurston (wrestling economics) are all pointing out where Zelina is in the wrong for going at Meltzer after his comments but Zelina won't go at them... hell Bix is a guy I think ends up being more critical of WWE then Meltz half the time but they won't call him out

I've very occasionally seen wrestlers call out the like, absolute bullshit dealers before. I remember the WWE on Fox twitter even singled out a Bred Shepard report early on and went "Look we're not makign a habit of it but this man is never truthful ignore everything he says". But otherwise? This is theater. Meltzer has a ton of flaws but this is absolutely just theater and it is every time this same thing goes down. They go after Meltzer and nobody else with any credibility because he's Meltzer.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2021 17:22:54 GMT -5 DrBackflipsHoffman said:

I think ultimately what we need to remember from all of this is how good looking I am

Shoutout to Doudrop too. Future Women's Champion.

I hope they do an angle where Eva Marie thinks she's getting a magazine shoot and she finds out it's really for Doudrop.

[EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese]

Jul 5, 2021 17:17:39 GMT -5 @kn said:

Like, gimme some more juicy stuff to talk about. Where's the "Vince McMahon things this bad thing about this wrestler" headlines? Where's this "I heard this guy is gonna get pushed soon and he's trash" headlines? I wanna see that rather than Wrestler vs Journalist XXXIV main event.

We’re doing our best. Within five minutes we had that thread about him liking Piper Niven spun as though it is a bad thing.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2021 17:19:19 GMT -5 Legion said:

Jul 5, 2021 17:09:40 GMT -5 @flaminghalo said:

So, to summarise, you don't like cancel culture, but believe it exists, and should be used to fulfill your own opinions and perspective.

Thats f***ed, you know that right?

Yes, I already said it was hypocritical.

I'd argue I never said I wanted it to fulfil my own perspective or opinion, rather I'd just not be upset if happened to someone I dislike, but I'm not shying away from it being a hypocritical stance.

Thats the same thing.

Hope you don't mind if I call this chat here. This mindset is too unhealthy for a Monday evening to even chat about.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2021 17:25:20 GMT -5 Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) said:

Jul 5, 2021 17:17:39 GMT -5 @kn said:

To the idea of cancel culture I'll say this; in my opinion people can horrible f*** up but if they redeem themselves and make up for it then hey do that and you'll be good. I don't believe in canceling someone because they said one horrible thing you personally don't agree with, for me it's all about hey what can you do to make up for that. At the end of the day it's about being a good human being and while that depends on your idea of what a "good human being" is, there's generally a set of rules that most people agree with. To this Zelina and Meltzer thing I'll say that they both need to get off social media and keep on doing their thing. Meltzer's got a bad reputation towards going at women and some of Zelina's comments have been a bit rough even though I can see where she comes from partially. At the end of the day all it'll take is them doing their thing for a few weeks and people will move on and that's that.

This really ain't that big of a deal no matter how you cut it. You know it's a slow news week when we've got a wrestler vs Meltzer main event.

Like, gimme some more juicy stuff to talk about. Where's the "Vince McMahon things this bad thing about this wrestler" headlines? Where's this "I heard this guy is gonna get pushed soon and he's trash" headlines? I wanna see that rather than Wrestler vs Journalist XXXIV main event.

Yea, I pretty much agree with this

It only makes it "big news" because Zelina has become public enemy number 1 to some and Meltz has been public enemy number 1 to others. Both sides get shit on, nothing advances

Zelina in her bag now so she needs to fall back a bit 

Yeah pretty much. Zelina's pretty much in a similar position as Seth was like what was that, 2 years ago? Meltzer's always in some shit.

[kingoftheindies]

Jul 5, 2021 17:25:25 GMT -5 Final Countdown Jones said:

Jul 5, 2021 17:12:42 GMT -5 kingoftheindies said:

Here's the other issue pointed out by voices of wrestling.

And of course wrestling news sources like Bix, VOR, and Bryan Thurston (wrestling economics) are all pointing out where Zelina is in the wrong for going at Meltzer after his comments but Zelina won't go at them... hell Bix is a guy I think ends up being more critical of WWE then Meltz half the time but they won't call him out

I've very occasionally seen wrestlers call out the like, absolute bullshit dealers before. I remember the WWE on Fox twitter even singled out a Bred Shepard report early on and went "Look we're not makign a habit of it but this man is never truthful ignore everything he says". But otherwise? This is theater. Meltzer has a ton of flaws but this is absolutely just theater and it is every time this same thing goes down. They go after Meltzer and nobody else with any credibility because he's Meltzer.

Yep. They think it'll be them bonus points.

Like I don't care why Zelina decided to resign with WWE. Did the optics of her release look bad? Sure, but they likely compensated her very well. If she is happy that's all that matters. Now if it comes out in a few months that she isn't happy anymore like what has happened to several wrestlers over the last few years after signing new contracts or talking trash on dirt sheets (see Mike Bennett, Cedric Alexander, Ricochet, and Sasha Banks)? This is all gonna look bad